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Chrysler??? Don't you mean Fiat!
Not sure what you mean, Fiat and Chrysler are one in the same, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles AKA FCA (unless that was a joke?). For what it's worth, I had family that worked in that transmission plant and always refer to it as "the Chrysler plant" well after the FCA merger. Ironically, the FCA Kokomo transmission plant was built by Mercedes during that failed merger.

But that is way off topic, heh.
 

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Just not a big fan of Fiat buying out a good American Company. And I see lots of rusted out Chrysler/Dodge vans on the highways around here.
 

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I thought Chrysler was already bought out by Daimler-Benz (1998?)? I think they technically called it a merger but Chrysler got no control in the deal.


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I thought Chrysler was already bought out by Daimler-Benz (1998?)? I think they technically called it a merger but Chrysler got no control in the deal.


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Yes, Chrysler entered into a "merger" where they were basically going to be absorbed by Daimler to form DaimlerChrysler.

Daimler eventually dissolved the merger and sold their majority stake to a private equity firm until Fiat stepped in.
 

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It may be worth defecting to Chrysler is my 2cents opinion. I would recommend reading Pacifica forums for issues. I have a 18 EX bought brand new, and It's been to warranty work three times in first 6 months. Now I got one more issue where the inside panel of the passenger sliding door hits the car on open, and I can not get the dealer to fix it as they say its outside influence that made it do that. The car had never been in wreck, its been scratched in a parking lot on driver side but not on passenger side. Called Honda corp and so far still nothing done to fix it in two months.
 

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It may be worth defecting to Chrysler is my 2cents opinion. I would recommend reading Pacifica forums for issues. I have a 18 EX bought brand new, and It's been to warranty work three times in first 6 months. Now I got one more issue where the inside panel of the passenger sliding door hits the car on open, and I can not get the dealer to fix it as they say its outside influence that made it do that. The car had never been in wreck, its been scratched in a parking lot on driver side but not on passenger side. Called Honda corp and so far still nothing done to fix it in two months.
I would think that a sliding door that rubs or catches a bit on opening and closing would also show evidence of a pretty decent impact on the outside. It sounds like yet another dealer trying to look good in front of Honda Corp because of fewer warranty claims. Trouble is, you're now thinking people should move to a Pacifica. Would it hurt them to take a look and see if there can be an adjustment made? The best way to destroy customer loyalty is to piss them off. They'll handle the rest.
 

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Our 2016 Odyssey EX-L has served us well, but I want to get the wife in something with adaptive cruise control (and the AEB that comes with it) and Apple Car Play. Third row access for three adults is important - with two car seats in the second row. Which rules out ALL 3-row crossovers. They are just a bunch of compromises - minivans with high floors and less-convenient doors, and many only have two seats in the third row. All but the biggest don't have room for our goliath two-kid stroller behind the third row seat, let alone any luggage. I tow a 2000# trailer now and then, and will bring it on long distance family vacations: 4-7 people, their luggage, and a trailer. But mostly the van will do mommy duty - a driver and two kids in big forward-facing car seats.

The Sienna checks the two boxes (ACC, Carplay) but doesn't really bring anything else to the table other than it's a "tried and true" design - meaning it's ancient. MSRP is reasonable especially with their ACC standard on all models. But there are minimal discounts and our local dealer is a bunch of smug crooks. Third row access is similar to our current Odyssey - doable, but not great. Available AWD might be a big deal for many buyers, but my other car is a Subaru and this will be driven by a stay-at-home mom = no need to be out in bad weather. My brother has an AWD Sienna and loves it, but complains of lousy fuel economy and tire life - and only one or two brands make tires for it.

The Sedona was okay but just okay. Third row access with two car seats in the second row isn't great. The second row seat folds flat against the front row - awesome access! IF there's no car seat attached. So a great idea, but doesn't work in our case. Local dealer starts their radio ads by yelling "BAD CREDIT? NO CREDIT?" and the dealer definitely has a "so this is your last resort" vibe to it. They also sell Mitsubishi. Which is still a thing. Rated well by Consumer Reports, otherwise I wouldn't have even bothered to check it out. Pricing was comparable to more established brands with better resale, and the dealer was not willing to deal. Great warranty, though. Towing is not a problem - just bolt a hitch on it.

The Odyssey was nice. Very quiet! I was all prepared to trade ours in on a 2020 EX-L. I know better than to bring kids car shopping so instead I asked for an extended test drive and took the van home to show my wife. Only on that trip did I realize that the ACC cuts out below 20 mph. I use this feature all the time on my Subaru and assumed they all worked about the same. As the car in front of me slowed, so did the Odyssey. Then it stopped slowing and flashed a "BRAKE!" warning at me as I was quickly approaching the almost-stopped car in front of me. That's a big strike against the Odyssey. And a good case for salesmen riding along on a test drive! This particular one (like my 2016) has terrible panel alignment. I don't know what they do in Lincoln Alabama, but getting doors and fenders to match up is not part of it. A Pilot in the showroom had a very visible paint defect on the front fender. I've had Hondas going back to a 1992 Acura Vigor that was spot-on flawless right past 200,000 miles and a cousin ran it up to 300K. That sold me on Honda Quality. But this ain't it! The second row Magic Seats are awesome. Third row access is a peach. (with the center seat removed and laying in the garage) I dealed hard and worked with a couple other dealerships and got a decent discount on the 2020. They also showed me good numbers on my trade. (I thought $20K on a 2016 EXL with 46k miles is more than fair - I'd have to sell it privately for more than KBB Private Party to beat that deal with the tax savings, and used car buyers here just don't have $21,200 cash to buy a used car) Bottom rated by Consumer Reports for reliability. (It did really well on the road test, however) Just bolt a hitch on it, and the 10-speed can tow 3500# they tell me.

The Pacifica - ACC that works right down to zero, and resumes when the car ahead moves - check! Around-view camera - she likes that too! It even parks itself. Probably a parlor trick, but maybe she'll use it. Unlike everyone else, I really don't care about the Stow-N-Go. We have car seats in the second row 100% of the time, and with current laws requiring children to be in car seats until they are 26 or something, they'll never come out. For that same reason, second row seat comfort isn't a concern. And even if they are uncomfortable - anyone sitting there didn't pay for the van. But the storage holes for the Stow-N-Go seats will be useful for the little pink plastic potty, and ten million Elsa and Anna dolls that live in our van. CR rated this van great for reliability. (not Chrysler as a whole, but I'm not buying their entire model lineup) Drawbacks - some come with an optional spare tire, the one we're looking at just has the flat repair kit. I've only destroyed a tire once during a stupid high school boy off-road excursion in a Carter-era Buick. The other few tire problems I've had were all nails that I plugged days/weeks later in my garage. But for $300 I can get a spare tire that fits in one of the Stow-n-go wells, or (for $400) I can order the van with one that replaces the storage cubbies in the wall of the cargo area. Trailer towing is a point of contention. WIthout the factory-only tow package, a Pacifica is rated at 1500#. Tow package includes a heavy duty radiator, and trailer sway control software. Factory tow packages are good for 3600# but are hard to come by, and that's really narrowed my search. There are 13 vans within 150 miles, and most of them are $50,000 Limited models with features I don't need (a vacuum cleaner, really?) I'd consider bolting my own hitch on and taking my chances, but the cars are out there and the factory install is tucked up flush and the wiring is already done. Sway control isn't a big deal with a boat (axle is far back on the trailer) but I got into a "tank slapper" with a popup once and it wasn't fun. Something I don't like about the Pacifica - lots of controls are buried in the big touch screen. I think I can put the frequently-used ones on the "homepage" but I'd prefer to hit a button than dig through menus at 70mph.

Chrysler is also willing to throw lots of money at the deal. I'm sure resale value won't be there, but if they're putting the money on the front end, it won't be too bad. I'm hoping to keep this one a decade so anything will be nearly worthless in 2030 when all cars are electric and powered by the solar shingles on our roofs. Resale value DOES matter if some texting idiot runs a light and totals it, however. It's hard to beat the total out-the-door cost of the Pacifica, and I think ownership costs of any purchased new car is a crap shoot, with all this technology. I'm going tomorrow to work a deal on a low-spec Pacifica that meets all my requirements, and has a heated steering wheel - a "want" but not a need.

Of the 70+ cars I've owned, only one was a Chrysler, and it was a $100 Dodge Aspen that I drove across the country in 4 days. My wife came with a Plymouth Breeze - her first car. An ex-GSA auction car. It got some problems around 90K and we traded it on a new Accord DX. I'm not a fan of anecdotal evidence, but a branch of our family has driven nothing but Chryslers and since the 80's it's mostly been minivans, and they've had a good run with them, including a Pacifica. The minivans get passed down through two generations and then through a few siblings. They've all lasted to 200K+ or are still accumulating miles.

Not really a question, just typing my thoughts out, and maybe they'll save someone some time van shopping. Your thoughts on these vans?
We just bought a 2020 Toyota Sienna LE after happily owning a 2001 Honda Odyssey EX.

Since we rarely buy another vehicle, this is a big thing for us, countless YouTube videos, a few users forums[like here] and we went for dependability vs Chrysler Pacifica. We WANTED the Pacifica, but since we keep our cars so long, we need bullet proof dependability of Toyota!

The new 2020 Toyota Sienna has 295 HP, on regular gas! It's equipped with many "safety features" and it "feels" more solid than our 2 decade old Odyssey. It drives smooth, is QUIETER and everything works from day 1!
 

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For you I think it was the right choice. The Odyssey isn't as reliable as the Sienna (nor the Pacifica if you believe Consumer Reports) and isn't as featured as the Pacifica.
 

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My personal opinion:

I keep cars for a very long time (still have my 2001 Camry bought new in 2001, and I don't plan on getting rid of it for another 10 years, at a minimum). As long as a car remains reliable, I won't get rid of it. So, like Gary85739 above mentioned, I wouldn't touch a Chrysler since I wouldn't trust it after 20+ years the same way I would a Toyota (and certain Hondas).

It sounds like the adaptive cruise control is a very important feature to you, as you're trading a 4 year old car for a new one which you plan on keep 10 years. If so, I wouldn't "settle" for the Odyssey's system if you're not entirely pleased with it. I would probably agree with waiting for the 2021 Sienna here.

That being said, if you only plan on keeping the next car for 10 years, and the Pacifica fits the bill in terms of features, and you get a very good deal on the new one (to compensate for the slightly lower resale in the future), I don't see why not. The Sienna's reliability (and Odyssey too) will shine after 10-15 years. If you don't plan on keeping the car that long anyway, I think the Pacifica would be fine.
 

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I'd wait for the 2021 Sienna if not wanting a 2020 Honda Odyssey. The current 2020 Toyota Sienna is on a two decade old platform (Toyota K Platform) and the safety ratings are not good. In one pic on the IIHS for small overlap passenger the dash went all the way to the seat and the safety structure is rated poor.

Pacifica reliability no thanks. Sedona cant remove 2nd row for cargo although the seats collapse forward is only thing I don't like.

153973
 

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Hi - first post. Just went through this exact exercise, so I thought I'd share my thoughts in case it helps anybody.

1. Pacifica. Stow N' Go seats would theoretically be a boon for me. I have three kids, but also move a lot of stuff and I don't have a garage to store removed seats. I pictured the kids using the storage compartments when we go on trips and the seats will be in use. Problem - those compartments can't be accessed unless you move the corresponding front seat out of the way. So it's not like they could reach down in there, during the drive, and retrieve something. I had numerous other problems with the Pacifica. It drove well but everything about it felt cheap to me, in a very subjective, hard-to-define way. It was nearly impossible to find an example optioned the way I wanted (Touring L, Advanced Safety, Premium Audio) without a bunch of junk I didn't want or need, for thousands more. Every dealer offered different discounts, and the rebates change seemingly week-to-week. The whole shopping process was super annoying. And even though I had two problem-free Chrysler products for the last 5 years, the potential lack of reliability still scared me. I agree that the down-to-zero ACC would have been nice, but not enough to offset my other gripes. I couldn't shake the image of a future 5-year-old Pac at 75,000 miles where NONE of the electronic doo-dads worked anymore.

2. Sienna XLE. Great local dealer, with a much larger discount than expected, really made this tempting. Huge trunk. Noticeably bigger than the competition. 3rd row legroom is weird - there's plastic under the 2nd row right where your feet would like to be. I LOVE the fact that the 8th seat has a stowing location built into the side of the trunk. You can remove that seat, stow it, and lose basically zero cargo room. It also means the seat is probably the most uncomfortable thing in the world - it's so small, and so thin. Hate the lack of remote start - it's 14 degrees here as I type this. It drove well but the cabin felt very van/bus-like probably owing to the very upright, old-school dashboard. The inside is ugly as sin. It would bug me every time I got behind the wheel. I would like the AWD model where we live, but the lack of a spare and the thought of replacing many run-flat tires made that a no-go. The prospect of great long-term reliability, the healthy discount, and the 2 years free scheduled maintenance kept this one in the running right until the end, but it felt like a compromise.

3. Winner - Odyssey EX-L. Great shopping experience, 2nd to Toyota. Pinged two local dealers and got OTD quotes within a few dollars of each other, so I just went with the closest of the two and worked a good deal from there. The EX-L had nearly all the features I wanted, and none that I didn't, without playing Options Jenga like I was trying to with Chrysler. It was simple - Nav? No Nav? (No for me.) Pick a color, done. The car itself is my favorite to drive of the three by a large margin, and my wife's favorite passenger seat of the three, by a smaller margin. I think it has a great chance of striking the best balance between long-term reliability and present-day comfort/features of all three. Was essentially the same price as the Sienna XLE and a good bit less than the option-creeping Pacificas I was looking at. For what it's worth (not much), it's my favorite-looking, both inside and out. The low-end limit on the ACC is a bummer but I would mostly use that on long highway stretches anyway, so I will live with it. The flipside of the ACC, is that a lot of people have reported that the Honda's lane keep assist is better than Chrysler's. I will probably remove the 8th seat and stow it in a closet. I was bummed that the middle row didn't recline very far - turns out it was due to the seats hitting the outer walls. If you remove the 8th seat, and magic-slide the captain's chairs inward to the first notch, bingo, they recline like dentist chairs. The availability of an affordable extended factory warranty is great - I'll probably be extending to 96/120k, mainly for the aforementioned electronic doo-dads. Crash test ratings were a consideration. I'll have two teenage drivers in this thing within the next 2.5 years.

I'm only a few days in, but I love the cohesive cockpit with lots of dedicated hard buttons - no need to scroll through the infotainment to heat the seats, for example. I love the remote start, though I wish you could set the run time to more than 10 minutes (Did I mention it's 14 degrees?) The drive is fantastic. Coming from a Ram 1500, it just feels like I'm driving a nicely-optioned Accord, until I look behind me. The kids love the seats. I put a USB adapter in the 3rd row 12V, so kids have USB in every seat. With no 3rd row sunshades, I will probably eventually tint the 3rd row darker, and tint the front row to match the second. When I complained about how long a dealer trade was taking, they threw in a set of all-weather floor mats and a few free oil changes. Those, plus free state inspections for the life of the car, pretty much made up for Toyota's free 2 years of scheduled maintenance. I'm glad to not have to deal with run-flat tires. Where I live, road hazards are real and I've plugged two tires in the last couple of years. Plugging a tire in 10 minutes, in my driveway, for 5 bucks, beats the hell out of replacing one. What don't I like? More storage cubbies would be nice. The center console kind of sucks - there's nowhere for the USB cable to come out of the interior to the phone tray. You just can't close the console lid - dumb. And it feels like they could have made the forward drawer much larger. My list of complaints is overall very small and I'm not left wondering about the reliability of the Pac or feeling like I settled for the Sienna.

-Mike
Great review. Very similar to our thought process when we ended up in a 2020 EX-L. We are coming from a fully loaded 2009 VW Routan SEL premium (built in Canada at a Chrysler factory, so a Chrysler van essentially) and all the bells and whistles were great until they started failing one by one.

About your rear shades: I'm pretty sure you can buy those separately and install them. You'd have to remove both side panels and disconnect rear hatch lift mechanism and driver side seat belt on third row like you would for 3rd row speaker install, but it gets you factory sun shade in third row that's available on higher models.

Theoretically it's possible according to this thread (see below), but like I said, it's a lot of work and I would be installing 3rd row speakers if I went though all that.

 

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Though the thought maybe titillating, I would leave the Chrysler be.
Rough shifting can be fixed by inducing a lot of slip and that will also increase ATF temperatures and wear out the clutch packs prematurely. Given ZFs headaches here from people griping about it, luckily the refresh got rid of it and you can just sail with the 10AT with no major concerns. As far as packaging, the Chrysler may have an upper hand at first, but long term, you would wish you had the comfort and value of the Odyssey.

Ultimately, it is your choice and the fate of FCA at the time of your purchase. Make the educated decision that suits you and your family well.
 

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i had owned a 2019 Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid touring L for 4 months. its been in shop for more than 50 days for multiple issues. Finally Chrysler agreed to repurchase under Lemon law and i just bought the 2020 Odyssey.
The interiors, features and engine pickup and driving is better than Odyssey, 1 reason its hybrid that i had, it gets power directly from a 22kW battery. Chrysler has advanced much ahead of its competitors, but reliability is something they are not going good with Pacifica, time will tell if Chrysler Pacifica stays in market or not.
the toyota Sienna is very outdated, its time for Toyota to redesign their minivan to keep their product alive.
 

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Can't wait for the new Sienna to be released. More competition is better for the consumer.
 

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I traded my 2010 Odyssey in for a 2018 Odyssey (Touring) and have regretted it since shortly after I did it.

My 2010 was a freaking beast. I never had a problem with it. The 2018 is horrible. I can't get rid of it fast enough. I realize I purchased the 2018 the first year of a new generation but they are still having issues with dependability in the 2019's and 2020's.

Between all the recalls it's had, body panel defect replacements, blower motors for both the front and back rows going out and being on back order made me and my children go without heat almost an entire winter. Now my driver sliding door is refusing to open or close as it should. The passenger sliding door decides not to shut like someone is blocking it and it reopens and all you can do is manually close it. Oh yeah... they just announced ANOTHER recall. :(

It's pretty sad that this generation (at least mine) has become a $45k nightmare.
 

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We are in the market for a van, to buy in March. I'm on the Sienna/Odyssey fence. I don't know if reading this forum is helping lead me away from or towards Odyssey. And I also think I finally understand the "This is brilliant, but I like this" meme. I'm not familiar with the Golf or Focus to know what he is implying there. But I look at the Sienna and think it's a solid machine with a mature platform that should have very high reliability, but then I look at the tons of little nice things the Odyssey does that should make it more enjoyable to spend time in. Things like brake hold, Android Auto, and remote start.

I think I may end up with a new 2020 Odyssey, but I keep going back and forth. I was looking at 2 year old vans and comparing 2018s of each, but the price for a 2018 EX-L locally can be higher than a 2020 EX and having the full warranty instead of partial feels worth the money to me, if it does end up a little more. Plus it puts the 10 speed in my price range. I'm also torn between EX and EX-L. The memory seats, Homelink, and power liftgate (with it's higher opening) will all make the day-to-day experience better. It's just like the Sienna to Odyssey difference, but another level. The only thing I want from the higher trim is the nicer looking headlights, but that's not enough for me to jump up.

Does anyone have any experience with the Costco program? I like the idea of a quick haggle free experience even if that means I don't get the best deal on the planet. Is a dealer less likely to match a deal or be flexible on HondaCare if I go in on the Costco program? Will they just make up the difference by giving me less for my trade?
 

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Does anyone have any experience with the Costco program? I like the idea of a quick haggle free experience even if that means I don't get the best deal on the planet. Is a dealer less likely to match a deal or be flexible on HondaCare if I go in on the Costco program? Will they just make up the difference by giving me less for my trade?
I used USAA car buying service to get quotes which is similar to the COSTCO program. I had some dealers that went lower than that price. It seems those programs to me are just a way to get the negotiating going or is a win for the dealer if the person doesn't want to negotiate and just takes the price. To be honest if I was in the market for an SUV or Crossover I might just take the COSTCO pricing and not even try to negotiate, but Vans and Sedans are not selling as well and you have more of the upper-hand and could get a better deal. Look on this site and see the prices people are paying around 35K for an EX-L lower in some parts of the country, if COSTCO is going that low then you may not need to negotiate. If they aren't it doesn't hurt to use it and try to negotiate further.

I think they will try to make it up on the trade whether you use any car buying service or not. I think the negotiating on the price of the new van is going to be easier than negotiating your trade. I'd probably come with your own financing and not let them know that until after you've negotiated the van price and the trade in. I'd buy the Honda Care online (unless your in a State like FL where you can't).
 

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Reading through most of the comments no one mentioned the remote start behavior Honda vs. Toyota. I live in the midwest and with three kids it takes time to load them all up and get them buckled in. With Toyota once you remote start the van it will shut off anytime a door is opened, so in the time it takes to load up my car the car won't be warming up. Honda does it different once you start it will remain started no matter what door you open or close. It will shut down if you open the hood. That was a major factor for us, by the time the kids are loaded up the car is pretty warm and the steering wheel went from ice cold to so warm you don't want to let go.
 
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