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Discussion Starter #81 (Edited)
Re: Re: what do we think?

charlie1214 said:
I was trying to look at the situation logically, but it seems that you have frowned upon that. I was also trying to establish rules for this "game" so everybody would be on a level playing field. It seemed like a fair thing to do. However, this is your thread and this is not the way you intended it to be.

Since fairness has been thrown out, I will follow JyRO's rules from the start of the thread:



Well, I am an Ody owner and I just put 640 miles on one tank of fuel. For those curious, it was 10.314 gallons for 62.05 mpg and it was in my 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid. I am hoping to get the chance later this summer to hit 500 miles in my Ody. Will that make me the first two vehicle member?:D
Charlie - I don't frown on logic. Everybody is on a level playing field, if they own an Ody and have access to driving it. If you mean that you don't fill your tank as full as I do mine and therefore its not fair to you, then I would have to say that has merit.

But the club is 500 miles on the tank ... there needs to be no other rules. Its black & white and this is no "official club."

But if not filling your tank quite as full as possible due to pump equipment and/or environmental concerns will always stop you from joining "the club," well that doesn't mean that you are inferior.

If you choose not to fill your tank above a certain level, I respect that. If you never make it to 500 miles, so what? To make 500 miles is just for sh1ts-n-giggles. No big honor will be bestowed on any 500 club member. Shoot man, I've not joined myself.

Will you be the first 2 vehicle member? Not if I don't get there first! :D I put 600 miles on my Corolla (606.9), and used ~13.789 gallons or so (from memory). I do remember I averaged 44.0X mpg.

That's friggin awesome mileage on that Civic. The Jetta TDI guys can do that too, but I bet they have to try harder (drive slower, practice fuel economy techniques more rigidly) than you may have to do in your Civic to get 60+ mpg. Just awesome. :cool:

- JyRO
 

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JyRO said:
I was referring to being a numb-skull due to the act of standing at the pump waiting on the official top off.
Sorry, can't let you get away with that one. You wrote "but I'll stand at the pump for 10 minutes after the pump clicks off and top off the thank"

Also this is *not* your thread. Sure, you started it, but it's not yours, any OdyClub member is free to contribute to it in whatever manner they see fit within the membership terms.

This is my last word on the subject, I look forward to reading your inevitable "must have the last word" reply though.
 

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Discussion Starter #83
Grand Total said:
Sorry, can't let you get away with that one. You wrote "but I'll stand at the pump for 10 minutes after the pump clicks off and top off the thank"

Also this is *not* your thread. Sure, you started it, but it's not yours, any OdyClub member is free to contribute to it in whatever manner they see fit within the membership terms.

This is my last word on the subject, I look forward to reading your inevitable "must have the last word" reply though.
Let me get away with what? Topping off the tank happens after the pump clicks off. I add gas after the pump clicks off ... duh. :rolleyes: When have I said different?

You're not letting me get away with something that I openly stated in the first place? Where's the logic with that? :stupid: Thanks for clarifying the already clear. :rolleyes:

Go back and quote one place where I said, "this is my thread." I've replied that you have the right to your opinion, and that wasn't good enough for you.

I did say, "Enough is enough, go hijack another person's thread and try to pick a fight with them. Or better yet, try to get along and productive."

I didn't say, "stop adding to this thread because its mine," as you are implying. Maybe you're implying that because its just part of your personality to want to argue/fight with someone who won't bow down and agree to your opinion. Or maybe you can't read and comprehend? Which is it?

I'm not interested in having the last word, but do like to point out where you are being deceptive in order to create a situation where it can look like I have to have the last word, in order to set the record straight about your deceptiveness.

Enough is enough. Let's talk about the 500 mile club, if you can handle not trying to further escalate this base an unrelated pile of deceptions due to your inability to cope with someone who doesn't agree with you.

- JyRO
 

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This seems to be a discussion about whether or not topping off is bad. I don't think it is us trying to make JyRO stop topping off. It seems (including JyRO--but to a lesser extent) that we all agree that this is bad for the environment. I am not qualified to quantitate the environmental effect of topping off--and I really don't feel like doing the research. The issue then: is the convenience of 1 to 2 gallons of extra tank capacity worth the negative environmental impact? I will not speculate as to the extent of this impact--I will just not top off.

JyRO, I think that you have speculated that this impact is minimal at best and that the extra tank capacity is more important. The one thing you have yet to mention is why you think the extra tank capacity is that important.

I am just trying to summarize what has been said so far in these posts. Please correct me if I am wrong. I am not trying to start a huge argument. These are things that I would say to friends or family in a face to face discussion. I enjoy hearing different opinions. If you have good reasoning for your actions, you should be happy to back them up.

JyRO, I enjoy your comments and mine are not meant to be hostile, but I know posts can easily be misinterpreted as such. That's the nature of this type of communication.

That's friggin awesome mileage on that Civic. The Jetta TDI guys can do that too, but I bet they have to try harder (drive slower, practice fuel economy techniques more rigidly) than you may have to do in your Civic to get 60+ mpg. Just awesome.
I actually had to try pretty hard to do get in the 60s. I can easily get in the 50s. For the 60s tank, I barely got on the freeway and I didn't use the AC much. I just wanted a trophy tank. Maybe it will be easier after my car breaks in a little more--it's at ~2700 miles.

Later.
 

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Discussion Starter #85
charlie1214 said:
JyRO, I think that you have speculated that this impact is minimal at best and that the extra tank capacity is more important. The one thing you have yet to mention is why you think the extra tank capacity is that important.
Well, I don't think the extra tank capacity is necessarily more important. The level of importance has never been an issue. Keep in mind, I think the vapor effect to the environment is kind of like complaining about human body sweat being washed off a human being while they are swimming in the ocean. That's not an exact analogy, but something along those lines.

To answer your question in the way that's relavant to my position: Why do I try to fill the tank to maximum capacity?

I think it all started years ago when I was curious as to what kind of gas mileage I was actually getting. I figured the hand calculation out by myself (meaning there was noone for me to ask, and the internet wasn't around). When I figured out how to do it, I wondered how would I know EXACTLY how much was in the tank if I stopped when it clicked. Because the amount of fuel dispensed can vary, probably by more than a gallon in some cases, from pump to pump at the "click," I was not satisfied that the results I would get would be accurate. The variation kills the accuracy of hand calculations.

I experimented with the pumps and found I could fill up to the neck and realized that was the most consitent way to judge the capacity of fuel I used on the previous tank. I continue to calculate mpg this way. I like my cars, and the paint that comes on them, so I made/make it a point to not spill. I don't even drip the last drip on the ground. I make the nozzle drip into the filler neck, and slowly set it back on the pump.

I don't top off every tank. My wife NEVER does this. She doesn't care about mpg, and doesn't understand why I waste my time. :D But I don't try to force her to change her thinking. To each their own.

P.S. I think you've got a bit of an advantage over the Jetta TDI guys, because most of the time (at least where I live) diesel fuel is 5 to 10 cents a gallon more expensive.

- JyRO
 

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 500 mile club, who's in (if anyone)?

JyRO said:
mejmea - I've lived in GA, TN, MI, and AL. None of the places in those states that I lived have had this vapor recovery stuff. I have used a pump or two while traveling that had this hardware. Personally, I doubt these systems work effectively (not only does the mechanism and execution seem poor, but if it were really effective, why wouldn't all places jump on the bandwagon?).

Other than that, which is worse? The pollution from vapors off the fuel? Or the pollution from burning them? I'm not sure on that one, because with an effective catalyst, the pollution from the average vehicle is rather low (compared to no catalyst). But, I'd still have to believe the pollution the average car makes burning gasoline or diesel is by far more of an issue than the vapors off the raw fuel. I may be wrong.

My Mickey Mouse example. Take the following 2 scenarios. If I take a 20 gallon can of gasoline, and open it in a closed garage, versus if I take the average vehicle and leave it running in a closed garage (and that's at idle, its not even polluting like it would at hiway speeds), which one is going to kill me first?

Here's the point of my seemingly illogical rant: If you and Grand Total want to "look at the big scheme of things," you need to realize that you two are sweating the petty stuff.

- JyRO
JyRO,

I wasn't dissing you or trying to pick a fight - just passing along information for the sake of information.

The vapor recovery systems are required by law to be 95+% efficient and have to be proven via long term real-world field tests in order to become certified for use. They are only required in certain areas by the EPA (or states can mandate them on their own) where pollution is considered a serious problem - typically more urban/metropolitan areas. Other places don't jump on the bandwagon because the systems are expensive to install and maintain.

I think you are probably right about what would kill you first in a garage but the unburned hydrocarbons/fuel vapors are known to be very reactive when they get into the atmosphere so it's more of a overall air quality thing than a "it'll kill you now" thing. Hence Stage I and Stage II vapor recovery systems.

Didn't intend to hijack the thread - just information - back to our regularly scheduled programming following these words from our sponsor.....:)
 

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hey Jyro, i top of my tank as well, when i'm trying to get and accurate mileage

or i get it to round to the nearest dollar.......:stupid:

if i used the "clicker" on my bikes, i'd get less then 1/3 tank full. i figure i get 2x the mpg on the bikes as the cars, so whats a lil release........:p
 

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Discussion Starter #89
mejmea - Thanks for the words. I didn't think you were trying to start anything. GT just can't let it go, unless I agree with him I guess.

VFR - I figure there's a lot of people who do top off, more that don't. As far as this thread goes, those that can make it to 500 miles (not to disclude others though) are doing it by conserving fuel.

The fuel conserved to make 500 miles on 1 tank I believe will have a way bigger positive impact on the environment, and vastly out weigh whatever vapors *MIGHT* have been released (over and above the normal fill) topping off a tank. JMHO.

So, this thread is making a positive impact on the environment! :D

- JyRO
 

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JyRO said:
mejmea - Thanks for the words. I didn't think you were trying to start anything. GT just can't let it go, unless I agree with him I guess.
I think GT let it go--somebody else cannot. When you state your opinion, you say it is just that. When we with different opinions state ours, you say we are trying to start a fight or get you to agree with us. Do you realize this? Why is there this discrepancy?

Originally posted by JyRO
VFR - I figure there's a lot of people who do top off, more that don't.
First of all, this statement has no basis. Second, does it make it right or wrong if you "figure" everyone else is doing it?
 

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Discussion Starter #91 (Edited)
charlie1214 said:
I think GT let it go--somebody else cannot. When you state your opinion, you say it is just that. When we with different opinions state ours, you say we are trying to start a fight or get you to agree with us. Do you realize this? Why is there this discrepancy?
There is no discrepancy, when I say GT is trying to start a fight, its because of reasons like this.

Go about 8 or 9 post back from this. And even before that. I said that it was his opinion and he had a right to it. Even after that, he tries to imply that I'm trying to sneak around the fact that I tried to top off my tank after the pump clicks off ... when I clearly stated it before then and after then that I do that. Then he implies that I'm trying "to own" this thread. Which I have never said it was "mine." I guess I'm going to have to quote this for you, because either you're not following, can't comprehend or don't want to admit it.


Here’s one place on page 5 where I openly state that I top off after the click … go back and read it for yourself
JyRO said:
Anyway, the pump clicks off somewhere in the 19 gallon range, and you just have to be willing to stand there and let the pump run slow, to fill it up into the neck.
Same page 5 where Grand Total begins to try to press his opinions on others, and to insinuate that I am just a hard headed bafoon ("in this case" meaning JyRO):
First of all, this statement has no basis. Second, does it make it right or wrong if you "figure" everyone else is doing it?
Yes, this statement has basis. My dad and I are the only 2 people that I personally know who do this. I’ve never seen anyone hang out at a gas station as long as I do … especially women. I check my oil and occasionally top off. I’ve seen people who act like they’d rather be at the dentist office than at the gas station. Bing, bang, boom and they’re out of there. There is nothing wrong with that, and I don’t think they should do it the way I do. I highly doubt all these people who are at the gas station for 2 minutes or less are topping of the tank. That’s my basis. Tell me where that’s wrong.

Second – I’ve never said that topping off is good for the environment. I openly admit that I release more vapor than you do. Its quite possible that I release more vapor than anyone on the planet, because I add gas to my lawn mowers from an opened can to an open tank!

Let me guess, you and Grand Total are PM’ing so that a) he can get in his sentiments through you so it can look like he has dropped it, and b) so that you two working in cahoots can get this thread locked. Well, this is it. I’m finished with this spat with you two (meaning Grand Total and Charlie1214). I don’t want the thread locked, but I’m not in control of that.

The 500 mile club is fun for all … scratch that … most. And requires improved fuel economy to join. Which is way better for the environment than a few fumes released while fueling. If you are not able to join the 500 mile club due to concerns with fume release, you are still just as cool as the rest of us … you are not inferior. I’m done with the argument, but will continue with those who have something non-argumentative to post to this thread THAT I DON’T OWN!

- JyRO
 

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JyRO said:
Let me guess, you and Grand Total are PM’ing so that a) he can get in his sentiments through you so it can look like he has dropped it, and b) so that you two working in cahoots can get this thread locked. Well, this is it. I’m finished with this spat with you two (meaning Grand Total and Charlie1214). I don’t want the thread locked, but I’m not in control of that.

- JyRO
This sounds like a conspiracy theory--like a sinister plot to get this thread locked.

Like I said, it seems like GT let this "argument" go. I also let this "argument" go. I have not made any claims for or against topping off after I let this go. I let this go because it seemed pointless. You think it's OK and I think it's not. I realized that any more communication about that topic was pointless.

It really is your need to get in the last word--multiple times--on the subject. Once was fine--but the second time made me point out how it is you, and not GT, that won't let the "topping off" debate go. For the record, I have never PMed anybody or been PMed.

I'm sorry that the thread got sidetracked and I have no desire to see it locked.
 

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Does anybody have any roadtrips planned for this holiday period? This seems like the perfect time to break the 500 mile barrier. Unfortunately, I will not be driving very far from home.

Good luck and safe travels to those that do.
 

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charlie1214 said:
Does anybody have any roadtrips planned for this holiday period? This seems like the perfect time to break the 500 mile barrier. Unfortunately, I will not be driving very far from home.

Good luck and safe travels to those that do.
yeap, leaving early monday morning for Toronto. 510 miles from door to door. Unfortunately, I will need to refill the tank before I cross into Canada (gas is still cheaper here), so I will not be able to join the 500-mile club, even if I tried :(
 

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charlie1214 said:
Does anybody have any roadtrips planned for this holiday period? This seems like the perfect time to break the 500 mile barrier. Unfortunately, I will not be driving very far from home.

Good luck and safe travels to those that do.
My family will be undertaking the mega drive journey starting this weekend. We will driving from Colorado to Mt. Rushmore to Yellowstone N.P then back. In all, this should be 2000 miles so I am hopeful that we will get in the 500 mile club during this vacation.
 

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Discussion Starter #96
I'm heading to Atlanta and back early in the week. Its only around 170 interstate miles one way. Then around town probably alot, and 170 miles back. I doubt I will get the kind of fuel mileage that would be needed to join the club. :( But I'll try.

- JyRO
 

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During the drive home from Yellowstone N.P. and by the Grand Tetons, we are now officially members of the 500 mile club. The incredible thing is that some of the 515.7 miles, roughly 220 miles or so, was within YNP (the first 150 with a lot of random stops, slow crawling looky driving and a few of our own stops) and the many stops by the Grand Tetons for pictures. Throw in a lot of pit stops for other nature calls as well. Our Ody averaged just over 26 mpg. Considering all the stops that were made, this is a great average!
 

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RobotDoctor said:
During the drive home from Yellowstone N.P. and by the Grand Tetons, we are now officially members of the 500 mile club.
Man, what a way to join the club. Anytime in Yellowstone area is worth it no matter the mileage!
 

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RockHammer said:
Man, what a way to join the club. Anytime in Yellowstone area is worth it no matter the mileage!
Yellowstone NP is about the prettiest place I have ever been. All I can say is, WOW! The Grand Tetons were also awesome! Again, WOW!
 

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Will be driving up to Jersey the first of August and return two weeks later. Might make it then as it seems that I keep getting closer.:p
 
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