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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
1998 transmission solenoid filters

First time poster here. I just want to relay some info on how I fixed my 98 trans. It's longwinded, but I don't want to leave out any details that might help someone else. I don't know if it also applies to the 95-97 since they use a different transmission.

In a nutshell there are 5 filters which can be easily accessed and cleaned out. If your trans isn't shifing at all Refer to page 7 of following link to access the 2 shift control and lockup control valve filters. If it is slamming into gear see page 8 for the pressure control valves and although this link doesn't show it, there are 3 ATF feedpipes with filters on them under the 2 pressure valves. You need to remove the battery tray to access the pressure control set of valves and will take around an hour. The shift control valve filters can be done from the front of the transmission. Should take less than 15 minutes for those.

Any of you with '98s who are displaying delayed or rough engagement after coming to a stop, this may be your problem.

http://www.transtec.com/tech_insert/94626.pdf

Now the narrative:

I've owned my 98 Odyssey since new and it has 165K miles on it. I had never changed the trans fluid, and unless the dealer changed it at the 30K checkup, it had never been done. I'm a pretty good DIY mechanic, but just never had an A/T before, and didn't know that the fluid was any different than a manual as far as service intervals. About 10K ago or so it started having delayed engagement into first after coming to a stop. Engagement into Reverse was also delayed. In addition the engagement into all gears was not as smooth. I wasn't too concerned about it, since it still drove.

Finally these things got worse. The delays increased and the engagement got more jerky. The Check Engine light was coming on and the D4 flashing. Since I don't have an OBDII reader, I just read the flashes after shorting the test clip and got 41, which is "faulty shift control system". The service manual trouble shooting flowchart for that code, says to check the hydraulic pressures and solenoids and if they are ok, then it's the transmission. I don't have the special Honda tool to check the pressures, so didn't do it. All the plugs on the solenoids were on tight but I didn't test further.

I accessed this forum and found out that I was supposed to change the fluid on a regular basis. So I went and picked up a case of Honda ZF fluid and changed it 4 times in a row, just to try and clear all the old stuff out of there. It helped somewhat for a few weeks, but then the trouble returned, only now getting worse.

Finally thinking the clutch pack may have had gummy deposits or whatever, I tried SeaFoam Engine treatment. Half a can into the Tranny. Ran it for 15 min and drained. Drained and refilled 4 more times with cheap Walmart Dexron III. Didn't want to waste the Honda fluid. This only made it worse. Now it wouldn't even upshift out of 1st. So about 6 months ago, I stopped driving it, thinking I needed a new Trans. I searched Car-Part.com for a low mileage replacement, but the 98 is very rare.

I recalled a message on this forum, about how if you suddenly change out very old fluid, you can clog the internal filters, but put it in the back of my mind, thinking I would need to dissasemble the trans to access these filters. No doubt the SeaFoam cleaned out the gunk and contributed to the clogging of the filters.

This week I ordered a trans rebuild kit for $160. New Clutch packs, steels, pistons and gaskets. I figured I might as well try and rebuild it myself. So yesterday, my 17yr old son and I went out to remove the transmission. but since I'm trying to teach him about trouble shooting, I thought we'd go through the symptoms one at a time. On page 14-108 of the service manual, the Symptom-to-Component chart. Every sysmpom I had came up with Note D, check for seizure in Shift Control Solenoid Valve. The manual also shows that there is a filter under this valve!

We removed the valve and lo and behold the filter was completely clogged up! Cleaned it out and reassmebled it and took it out for a test drive. It now shifts out of 1st. In fact it shifts into all gears! However there is still a 2 second delay and the engine races before it upshifts and the engagement is very shocking. From Park to R or D4 is also 2 second delayed before it slams into gear.

Back to the trouble shooting. "Excessive shock or flares in all shift lever positons". Possible cause 7, " clutch pressure control solenoid A/B valves defective". And the manual shows that under these 2 valves are 3 ATF feed pipes with filters on them. Well wouldn't you know the middle one, the one that feeds the other 2 was almost totally blocked. Blew it out with compressed air and reassembled.

Time for the test. Start it. Shift into R. Smooth as silk. No slamming. Put it in D and take off. After the first slightly jerky 15 seconds to get the air out of the system, it's now like a new car! Truly amazing since I've got Walmart Dexron in it, and after all the abuse I put it to during the last 12 months of slamming into gears and engine racing before upshifting. Unlike the 99 and on Odyssey transmissions, the earlier ones at least the 98 seems to be indestructible.

Due to my deferred neglect, it's possible that there is still debris floating around in the lines waiting to clog up the filters again. So this may turn into a routine maintenance item.

Now I'm left with a 98 tranny rebuild kit. Since I don't ever plan to sell this car, I'll just keep it. I'll post back when I finally have to use it. Hopefully it won't be for a very long time.
 

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What a fantastic writeup! I will be doing the same thing this spring on my 99 Oasis. I have mild versions of the same symptoms. Wish I could do it now but it's currenly +1 degree F here in southern WI. Ouch!
 

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Same problem exists for 5 speed auto as well

This is also an issue with the late rmodel 5 speeds as well. They also use solenoids with filtered feed tubes.
This I is use a magnefine in-line filter to catch the crud before it has a chance to clog up those feed tubes.
And for those that don't run a in-line filter its a very good idea to change the ATf filter that comes from the factory (on the 5 speeds) since it can become clogged, go into bypass mode and then allow the crud in the unfiltered oil to find its way to those feed tubes..
 

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Originally posted by theojo ....Shift Control Solenoid Valve.

.. clutch pressure control solenoid A/B valves... [/B]
Wow... what a write up and, potentially, very useful info for many people here. Thanks!!

I have a question.... are these 2 solenoids easy to remove with regular tools and inspiration?

It seems as if you, about to rebuild a tranny, are above the regular shade tree mechanic in expertise....

I'm inspired and want to keep my ody's tranny in as good a condition as the engine...

dT
 

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Very informative! I know nothing about transmissions (well a little) and like to learn more.

For the 95-97 transmissions there are also filters for both the lockup and shift solenoids. Check out items 6 and 8 in the pic below.

 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Slipscreen, Just a 10mm wrench to remove the 4 bolts for the Shift/Lockup combo with the o-ring type filter gasket. Same for the A/B pressure combo with the ATF feed tubes. 6 bolts in that case. For that one you'll have to remove the battery tray and support. Piece of cake. I said I was going to try to rebuild it, I didn't say I would be successful, but had to do something.

dpkelly, Your diagram shows 2 sets of o-ring filter/gaskets for the 97. Yes those are identical to the 1 set on the 98 Shift/lockup combo. The 98 had ATF feed tubes with screens on one end for the A/B pressure combo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Last night, I searched through the entire Transmission section of the Service Manual to see exactly how many filters there are in the 98 tranny.

In addition to the 5 which I had easy access to and cleaned out, there are 3 more.

They are all in the Torque convertor housing, rather than the main transmission body.

Under the Regulator Valve Body there is a small round filter.

Below that sets the Main Valve Body under which there is another identical small round filter.

Finally the ATF strainer itself which is under the Accumulator Body.

While these filters are not in the main Transmission Body, they do appear to be a bear to replace necessitating removal of the transmission to access the Torque convertor housing. At least that's how the manual describes it.

Prior to doing this, it would be wise to do further tests to differentiate whether the problem is hydraulic fluid restriction due to blocked filters or worn clutch packs, requiring a rebuild. There are pressure tests and stall speed tests in the manual which would accomplish this.

I'm not sure why my 3 internal filters/strainers aren't clogged up as well. Or at least not showing any evidence of it. Perhaps the solenoid filters are first line in the direction of hydraulic flow and pick up all the gunk, but I'd expect the strainer to have that job. I do know that 2 of the 5 filters I cleaned out were spotless. Why they would be clean and the other 3 clogged, would require further study of the flow diagrams.
 

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theojo said:
Slipscreen, Just a 10mm wrench to remove the 4 bolts for the Shift/Lockup combo with the o-ring type filter gasket. Same for the A/B pressure combo with the ATF feed tubes. 6 bolts in that case. For that one you'll have to remove the battery tray and support.....
I just replaced my thermostat... nice to have warm air in the van again... but,

I will be doing the tranny fluid drain and fill routine when it's just a tad above -29C (with wind chill).. but those filters will be removed and cleaned for good measure...

BTW, the tranny with 132,000 km is shifting pretty smoothly now, like to keep it that way for a while...

Oh yeah, are there o-rings in there that need replacement?

Thanks again THEOJO!!!!

dT
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The Manual says to replace the filter/gasket O-ring under the Shift Control/Lockup solenoid combo, but I just cleaned it out and put it back it. It's up front and easy to check for leaks.

There are 3 individual O-rings under each of the 3 screened ATF feed tubes under the Pressure Control A/B solenoid combo that the manual also says to replace. Again, I didn't.
 

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I've added your write up to the Howto after cleaning the grammar and spelling up a bit. It has a lot of good info and even though my shifts are pretty smooth I plan on taking my filters out when it gets warmer and cleaning them anyway. The only thing that could have made this better would be some pictures of the locations, but perhaps I or another member could provide those when we do this. Thanks for the writeup!

http://www.hostilejava.com/RAxTuning/Howto/Engine/howto_cleantrannyfilters.htm
 

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Woah, Theojo you're the man.

Thanks Hostile for putting it up on your site.

May need to refer to this information in the future.
 

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Theojo.. When you pulled off the two solenoids assemblies, how much fluid came out??.. Did you drain the transmission first then pull of the assemblies?

As mentioned, I am planning to replace the filters on my transmission also, and just want to be prepared if it will be a messy job or not

Thanks theojo


theojo said:
The Manual says to replace the filter/gasket O-ring under the Shift Control/Lockup solenoid combo, but I just cleaned it out and put it back it. It's up front and easy to check for leaks.

There are 3 individual O-rings under each of the 3 screened ATF feed tubes under the Pressure Control A/B solenoid combo that the manual also says to replace. Again, I didn't.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Just a few drops if that. Certainly doesn't come pouring out, as I had expected. Air does enter the system however, when these solenoids are removed, but it gets pumped out within about 15 seconds of driving. No I didn't drain the transmission first.
 

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Your post is a gem, I tell you.

Unfortunately, I didn't see it in time and had the dealer replace the tranny. I feel like kicking myself in the butt for being to impatient.

Oh well, at least I get a 3yr unlimited parts/labor warranty on it.

Oh and don't ask how much. It's bad enough that I know how much it is. Let's just say I could have bougt a flat 40 plasma/lcd tv....and a name brand at that.
 

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To the List Moderator,

Could you please re-title this thread to '1998 transmission filter' rather than '98 transmission filter'.

The search engine does not permit searching for words with less than 3 characters and special characters like quotes (single or double) aren't considered as characters in the count.

So even if you do a '98 the search engine does not accept it.

Thanks.
 

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2500-3000k?
 

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spot on! 3yr part/labor warranty plus they threw in the rear main seal replacement. sigh
 

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thojo... When you un bolted and lifted of the solenoid that has those small pipes as part of the assembly, how high did you have to lift it off the assembly from the transmission body to clear the pipes??

Reason being, on my Accord 01-LV-V6, their is the return pipe that carriers the transmission fluid back from the rad and it travels over top where this solenoid is mounted to the transmission body... I might have about 2-3cm of room to lift off the assembly.. other wise I might have to remove that fluid return pipe if I can not clear the tubes pipes...

thanks theojo...
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
CB, In my case the black tube you are referring to was over the first solenoids I took off which were the Shift Control/Lockup combo. They set on top of the transmission a little to the front. It has 4 bolts holding it down. That is the one with the O-ring filter gasket. It is on p7 of the link I posted with my write up. I didn't have any problem getting the solenoids to maneuver around the tube. I actually did loosen the clamp attaching the hose to the tube thinking I would need to remove the tube, but in the end I didn't have to.

The Pressure control A and B solenoid combo with the 3 ATF screened tubes is lower down on the passenger side of the transmission. It is actually shown on p2 of the link with the 6 bolts holding it down. In the diagram it is at the very top just to the right of the Main Shaft 3 and 4. It is also shown on p8 without the feed tubes. Since the 3 tubes set into the transmission only sticking up about 1/4 inch into the solenoid, the solenoid combo only has to be raised up about 1/2 inch if that.
 
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