Honda Odyssey Forum banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I discovered yesterday how our "parked" 2019 Ody EX with 9 speed transmission could roll backward down a sloped driveway.

I parked our Ody in a commercial parking space that has a very slight slope. The front tires hit the bump (like a speed bump) that limits how far forward the auto can go. I didn't want to have our van pressing against that bump so I pressed the neutral button and released the foot brake. The van rolled back a few inches from the bump. Then I turned the engine off.

I opened the driver's door and proceeded to get out of the van. When I was halfway out, I noticed that the van was starting to roll backward "very" slowly. I quickly jumped back into the van and pressed the foot brake to stop the rollback.

Then I did an experiment. I started the engine and pressed the neutral button. I turned the engine off and the transmission remained in neutral. OUCH! THIS IS A SAFETY ISSUE!!! With a car that requires turning a key to start the engine, one cannot remove the key unless the transmission is back in park. With the 2019 Ody's keyless engine start, it's possible to have the transmission in neutral and when the engine is turned off, the transmission will remain in netural and does not automatically shift to park.

EDIT: The actual behavior is:
... If the trans is in neutral and the the foot brake is pressed and the engine is turned off, the trans will auto shift to park.
... If the trans is in neutral and the engine is turned off "without pressing the foot brake" the trans will remain in neutral.

If the slope was less pronounced, I could have easily gotten out of the van, closed the door and left it. Then it could have "gradually" started its roll back and then resulted in an accident. I'm wondering if this is how some folks who parked their Ody van in their garage ended up having their van roll backward into the street, per a thread on this forum.

This problem is especially bad since the 2019 Ody EX will automatically shift to park when it is in drive when the engine is turned off. Folks like my wife and me who just turn off the engine and are used to have the trans auto shift to park will get caught with this "no auto shift to park from neutral" behavior. I don't know if this bad behavior applies to other year Odys with the 9 or 10 speed transmission.

PLEASE BE AWARE OF THIS BAD SAFETY PROBLEM !!!

Raptor88
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
516 Posts
I wonder how other manufacturer over come this. We have a 2013 CX-5 that has that push on button, but to be honest I don't know if it is in neutral and I turn off the car it will roll back... gotta test it out. While I believe the 2019 has a pull button as shifter the cx-5 still has the stick shifter...which is a lot easier to be like "holy smokes the car is in neutral".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
443 Posts
I do the following when parking on any kind of slope:
  • hold the brake pedal
  • apply the parking brake
  • put the vehicle in neutral
  • release the brakes and let the vehicle roll back until it is stopped by the parking brake
  • then put the vehicle in park
This procedure puts all the stress on the parking brakes instead of the pawls inside the transmission.

To reverse this, I apply the brakes, put the vehicle in drive, then release the parking brake.

Sorry, I reread the original post, and decided to add to this one.
Whenever I put the vehicle in neutral, a message pops up directing me to hold the neutral button to keep the vehicle in neutral after a door is opened (drive through car wash feature).
In the scenario above, the vehicle should have put itself in park after the door is opened. Not sure of this still applies if the engine is turned off first. Some manual reading might be needed...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
443 Posts
I am returning after briefly checking the manual.

There are several scenarios that come into play.
The vehicle will NOT put itself into park if it is moving. So, if you put it into neutral while it was slowly moving backwards, then it won't put itself into park after the engine is shut off/door opened.

The vehicle may have engaged hill assist mode, which temporarily applies the main brakes on a hill. This might be disabled once the vehicle is shut off. The manual has several pages describing when the vehicle will / will not shift into park, drive, neutral.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
I discovered yesterday how our "parked" 2019 Ody EX with 9 speed transmission could roll backward down a sloped driveway.

I parked our Ody in a commercial parking space that has a very slight slope. The front tires hit the bump (like a speed bump) that limits how far forward the auto can go. I didn't want to have our van pressing against that bump so I pressed the neutral button and released the foot brake. The van rolled back a few inches from the bump. Then I turned the engine off.

I opened the driver's door and proceeded to get out of the van. When I was halfway out, I noticed that the van was starting to roll backward "very" slowly. I quickly jumped back into the van and pressed the foot brake to stop the rollback.

Then I did an experiment. I started the engine and pressed the neutral button. I turned the engine off and the transmission remained in neutral. OUCH! THIS IS A SAFETY ISSUE!!! With a car that requires turning a key to start the engine, one cannot remove the key unless the transmission is back in park. With the 2019 Ody's keyless engine start, it's possible to have the transmission in neutral and when the engine is turned off, the transmission will remain in netural and does not automatically shift to park.

EDIT: The actual behavior is:
... If the trans is in neutral and the the foot brake is pressed and the engine is turned off, the trans will auto shift to park.
... If the trans is in neutral and the engine is turned off "without pressing the foot brake" the trans will remain in neutral.

If the slope was less pronounced, I could have easily gotten out of the van, closed the door and left it. Then it could have "gradually" started its roll back and then resulted in an accident. I'm wondering if this is how some folks who parked their Ody van in their garage ended up having their van roll backward into the street, per a thread on this forum.

This problem is especially bad since the 2019 Ody EX will automatically shift to park when it is in drive when the engine is turned off. Folks like my wife and me who just turn off the engine and are used to have the trans auto shift to park will get caught with this "no auto shift to park from neutral" behavior. I don't know if this bad behavior applies to other year Odys with the 9 or 10 speed transmission.

PLEASE BE AWARE OF THIS BAD SAFETY PROBLEM !!!

Raptor88
Wonderful to share this aviso, thank you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,274 Posts
2018 EX here.
As I recall one time last winter, I was reversing and had limited visibility due to a snow covered vehicle. I was moving the car back just a foot or two to get my snowblower out of the garage. While in Reverse, I opened the driver door to look back and the car slammed into Park. So, I assume that is normal behavior?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
221 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
2018 EX here.
As I recall one time last winter, I was reversing and had limited visibility due to a snow covered vehicle. I was moving the car back just a foot or two to get my snowblower out of the garage. While in Reverse, I opened the driver door to look back and the car slammed into Park. So, I assume that is normal behavior?
Yes, that is normal behavior, which I hate BTW. I want to be able to move the car forward or backward with the engine running and the driver's door open when I want to. I've been doing that with every car I've ever owned before our 2019 EX. .... But that's different from turning off the engine and not have the trans auto shift into park.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
383 Posts
2018 EX here.
As I recall one time last winter, I was reversing and had limited visibility due to a snow covered vehicle. I was moving the car back just a foot or two to get my snowblower out of the garage. While in Reverse, I opened the driver door to look back and the car slammed into Park. So, I assume that is normal behavior?
Some of these areas you are talking about might have been some of the things Honda was sued for, I am not trying to play the devils advocate here, but driving with a door open is not a good idea, but for those who need to see something while the ODY is moving may hear something like brakes squaling or see something like a curb to miss.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,274 Posts
Fully agreed, DJVAN. It is dangerous to drive any vehicle with a door open. I too have been doing that a long time but only when there is no other option.

It gets to the point in product design when things are added that cover every possible scenario, no matter how unlikely. Therein lies the distinction. The media is currently reporting every possible outcome to the Covid-19 pandemic. They constantly paint a doomsday scenario. Not once have I heard professional speculation on the likely outcome.

Coffee shops all over North America added the words, "Contents hot" all because one Bozo idiot judge thought it appropriate to award an equally Bozo idiot coffee drinker millions of dollars for getting scalded. "Gee, I didn't know the coffee was hot??" Sure, it's possible to spill hot coffee on yourself but how likely is it?? It gets to the point where we all need to be held accountable for our own actions. You can't legislate out stupidity so why try?

Honda slams my car into Park as soon as I open my door but the designers thought it safe to leave the damn thing in Neutral after the engine is turned off???? Hmmm.....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
198 Posts
Yes. Hodna.

You are EXACTLY spot on with you’re thinking. Your message rings true. STOP trying to figure out “stupid” and engineer in responsibility. It’s survival of the smartest not the fittest.

I often open my door momentarily while backing or pulling up on lift ramps to be able to see the fine alignment that’s necessary while feathering they gas pedal. In this Odyssey I have to have a second person to be able to do that.

I’m sure there are many other instances when people want to safely do the same type maneuver for various reasons. Well.....not with these vans.

You can’t fix being an idiot. Only one thing does......learning from life’s hard lessons. That’ll teach ya.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,274 Posts
Well put, Triaque. It's scary how Honda lets a car stay in Neutral when the engine is turned off by the same person entrusted to handle 280 HP at highway speeds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
383 Posts
Fully agreed, DJVAN. It is dangerous to drive any vehicle with a door open. I too have been doing that a long time but only when there is no other option.

It gets to the point in product design when things are added that cover every possible scenario, no matter how unlikely. Therein lies the distinction. The media is currently reporting every possible outcome to the Covid-19 pandemic. They constantly paint a doomsday scenario. Not once have I heard professional speculation on the likely outcome.

Coffee shops all over North America added the words, "Contents hot" all because one Bozo idiot judge thought it appropriate to award an equally Bozo idiot coffee drinker millions of dollars for getting scalded. "Gee, I didn't know the coffee was hot??" Sure, it's possible to spill hot coffee on yourself but how likely is it?? It gets to the point where we all need to be held accountable for our own actions. You can't legislate out stupidity so why try?

Honda slams my car into Park as soon as I open my door but the designers thought it safe to leave the damn thing in Neutral after the engine is turned off???? Hmmm.....
It's one thing to warn us about us Covid-19 and another thing to harp on about it 24 hours a day 7 days a week and we will have to wait for it to be 12 months out of the year. I believe that it's one of the reason's it putting such a scare into people from hoarding food to collapse in stock market. I do not know about in Canada but here in the USA the news media only allows 2-5 minute segments on whatever subject it is for their guest to speak, thinking the media knows best what is to be questioned about. Besides they are reporting the same info every 5 minutes. The last thing I will comment on this is college/university generation doing their Spring breaks not only at beaches but in other countries bringing back other avenues for Covid-19 to enter in, as their thinking is were invincible and we will not catch Covid-19. Did I say invincible? I meant to say they were imbecile's. Nuff said!

Now for the ODY's, so they make a transmission that requires electric and computer logic for it to operate. For their thoughts about putting it in Neutral, not having a battery's voltage to power the Logic and having different methods on the 9-speed and 10-speed to mechanically operate into Neutral for ODY being towed or just even being located on your own driveway. What madness did the engineers have when they said you can still put it into Neutral? Let these idiots being in a store parking lot and the battery goes dead (sorry Hodna) and you need to have to have the special tool and jack-up your ODY to crawl underneath the ODY have a working flashlight, take off the cowling and engine splash shield off from the bottom to access the shaft to put into neutral. Talk about being unsafe to accomplish this... Why did they not just make another pull cable or rotating cable with gearbox at transmission to rotate the neutral shaft.

Oh yeah to add another idiot to the list in from Sunny California having a person put a sun shade on the front window while driving? After all the blonde said "The Sunscreen printed on it to put the Sunscreen in the front window to block the sun printed right on it and so after this case was won in Court, are the Honda engineers ahead or behind that lawsuit? It happened some time in 1973-1974 time frame. It's not safe out side of your house doors! I was in the Air Force back then and my wife and I thought we were just a couple dumb farm hics from Iowa.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,274 Posts
Entertaining as always, DJVAN.

I think the entire car has been over-engineered to the point where multiple failures are inevitable. I would have been happy with a regular mechanical shift leaver. It only requires armstrong power, hence, no extra fuel. When things go wrong and you need a tow, the tow truck driver just says, "Put her into neutral." You reply, "No problem, buddy!" Not anymore. Who was the total complete idiot who made it basically impossible for us to have our cars towed????!!!

Yes, I saw the news interviews with a couple of testosterone-laden imbeciles basking in the sun on a nice beach in Florida. The claim was they were unlikely to get sick, therefore, all's good. They seem to forget that they can pass the virus to people who aren't as lucky. Correct me if I'm wrong, one inconsiderate moron on Facebook actually made it clear that the virus is a good way to clear out a lot of babyboomers. Being one of those, I take great offense. I believe it's us babyboomers who gave these little pukes things like the internet, cell phones, and high-capacity computers.

Apologies to Raptor88 for wandering a wee bit off track :)! Stay safe all...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Somewhat along the same lines of the lawyers trying to protect us but not quite succeeding: On both my 2013 Accord and my 2017 Toyota Highlander I have very limited ability to enter destinations into the OEM GPS while driving. I can look at the first page of a destination list and choose a destination on it, but I can't scroll to the second page of the list which, if I could, would be a very simple maneuver. However, I can choose Map Input and scroll the map and zoom in and out to designate my destination until the cows come home. Makes me wonder what the lawyers were smoking when they left that loophole open. And, yes, I have done it, so shame on me!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,274 Posts
Interesting post, bobbolew. I think the designers are bent on providing us with so many toys but nobody keeps track of the process. The result is the left hand and right hand don't communicate worth a crap. Not once do they ask, "Yes, we can add all this crapola to cars but should we?" I submit that if they went back to the simple designs of yesteryear and increased the gas mileage, the very people who can afford to buy the cars would gladly put their cash on the table. They had a proven formula that worked but too many cooks have spoiled the broth.

Watch out though. Here's their buzz phrase, "We need to provide our customers with all this electronic crap just to stay competitive." That's fine as long as it all works and is useful. Otherwise, all they're doing is using crap to compete against more crap. Nobody wins. You can bet your bottom dollar the dealers and techs who work on these cars are pretty fed up because they are the ones on the receiving end of the customer punching bag. After the designers and marketing idiots are done with it, they have no worries.

We have created a monster called technology and we haven't a damn clue as to how to temper it. For proof, I give you the vast majority of people out there whose nose tip is flattened by their cell phone due to all the useless texting. How did we ever get through school and our careers in the 60s and beyond, without technology?

Once again, Raptor88 - apologies. Technology evidently has me in its grip :LOL:!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
242 Posts
Fully agreed, DJVAN. It is dangerous to drive any vehicle with a door open. I too have been doing that a long time but only when there is no other option.

It gets to the point in product design when things are added that cover every possible scenario, no matter how unlikely. Therein lies the distinction. The media is currently reporting every possible outcome to the Covid-19 pandemic. They constantly paint a doomsday scenario. Not once have I heard professional speculation on the likely outcome.

Coffee shops all over North America added the words, "Contents hot" all because one Bozo idiot judge thought it appropriate to award an equally Bozo idiot coffee drinker millions of dollars for getting scalded. "Gee, I didn't know the coffee was hot??" Sure, it's possible to spill hot coffee on yourself but how likely is it?? It gets to the point where we all need to be held accountable for our own actions. You can't legislate out stupidity so why try?

Honda slams my car into Park as soon as I open my door but the designers thought it safe to leave the damn thing in Neutral after the engine is turned off???? Hmmm.....

Re: Hot Coffee vs.Parking Brake

That hot coffee issue keeps coming up as a criticism of our legal system, and many have been annoyed over this issue. But facts matter.

The facts go something like this:
A) That coffee temped out at 180 degrees or hotter, same as hot engine coolant. B) A number of people had told (McDonald's?) management for weeks that the coffee was scalding hot and nothing was done to repair the defective coffee maker, and C) that individual was permanently scarred from the burns (she?) received. I think the settlement was eventually $185,000, and I have no idea if it was a paid or appealed settlement.

Gee, coffee should be heated to no more than 140 degrees. That is too hot for most of us to drink safely, and that is a legitimate safety issue.

........................................................................

Parking pawls have been in use for 75 years or so. One manufacturer lost a lawsuit about defective parking pawls (Ford? - 20 years ago?).

By now, the parking pawl should be idiot proof. A mechanical link approaches that, because there's a "feel" to moving a mechanical lever to set the parking pawl. A "fly by wire" transmission lock is not so foolproof in these electronic vehicles, which often as not will develop electronics issues. What's happened here is likely a design flaw.

Two 737-800 Max's crashed because of a design and implementation defect in the "fly by wire" concept (no mechanical connection between the pilot's yoke and the flight controls) used in modern aircraft.

Maybe this is a warning for us to habitually use our parking brakes. A very few of us will actually set the parking brake by habit when we leave our vehicles - because this is seldom necessary. And we're humans - flawed creatures of habit.

We have warning buzzers and lights for almost everything else in these electronic vehicles. My VW has a nice loud warning when I open the door with the (mechanical) shift lever in any position other than Park. That immediately gets my attention. I like that feature.

All vehicles including Honda should have a warning when the parking pawl is not engaged when the door is opened - nice and loud and distinctive - and reliable. We will likely see a lawsuit over this issue as accidents occur because of this avoidable condition - and they will.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
We have warning buzzers and lights for almost everything else in these electronic vehicles. My VW has a nice loud warning when I open the door with the (mechanical) shift lever in any position other than Park. That immediately gets my attention. I like that feature.

All vehicles including Honda should have a warning when the parking pawl is not engaged when the door is opened - nice and loud and distinctive - and reliable. We will likely see a lawsuit over this issue as accidents occur because of this avoidable condition - and they will.
My 2016 Pilot with a traditional 6-speed auto and “normal” shift lever does this. If not in park when the engine shuts off, it beeps at me very clearly. I assume the Pilots with the 9-speed and push button shifter do this, but I’m not sure. It’s beyond me why the Odyssey doesn’t do this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,274 Posts
I like the idea of an alarm instead of having someone in the "coding department" tell me how to handle my car by slamming the damn thing into Park. If I need to momentarily back up a foot or so with an open driver door, so be it. Like the government, Honda keeps giving me shite that I don't want - like that stupid sunroof that's destined to leak someday.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
I discovered yesterday how our "parked" 2019 Ody EX with 9 speed transmission could roll backward down a sloped driveway.

I parked our Ody in a commercial parking space that has a very slight slope. The front tires hit the bump (like a speed bump) that limits how far forward the auto can go. I didn't want to have our van pressing against that bump so I pressed the neutral button and released the foot brake. The van rolled back a few inches from the bump. Then I turned the engine off.

I opened the driver's door and proceeded to get out of the van. When I was halfway out, I noticed that the van was starting to roll backward "very" slowly. I quickly jumped back into the van and pressed the foot brake to stop the rollback.

Then I did an experiment. I started the engine and pressed the neutral button. I turned the engine off and the transmission remained in neutral. OUCH! THIS IS A SAFETY ISSUE!!! With a car that requires turning a key to start the engine, one cannot remove the key unless the transmission is back in park. With the 2019 Ody's keyless engine start, it's possible to have the transmission in neutral and when the engine is turned off, the transmission will remain in netural and does not automatically shift to park.

EDIT: The actual behavior is:
... If the trans is in neutral and the the foot brake is pressed and the engine is turned off, the trans will auto shift to park.
... If the trans is in neutral and the engine is turned off "without pressing the foot brake" the trans will remain in neutral.

If the slope was less pronounced, I could have easily gotten out of the van, closed the door and left it. Then it could have "gradually" started its roll back and then resulted in an accident. I'm wondering if this is how some folks who parked their Ody van in their garage ended up having their van roll backward into the street, per a thread on this forum.

This problem is especially bad since the 2019 Ody EX will automatically shift to park when it is in drive when the engine is turned off. Folks like my wife and me who just turn off the engine and are used to have the trans auto shift to park will get caught with this "no auto shift to park from neutral" behavior. I don't know if this bad behavior applies to other year Odys with the 9 or 10 speed transmission.

PLEASE BE AWARE OF THIS BAD SAFETY PROBLEM !!!

Raptor88

I would suggest you get in the habit of always using a parking brake. The only time I would consider not using it is if I was going to store my car for a long time and parked on level ground.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
198 Posts
The problem with this whole parking pawl and alarm annunciation for the pawl position is two fold.

As stated above the system is no longer mechanically connected to a lever inside the cabin which provides driver feedback. So if it’s going to be electro-mechanical, then the sensor for the position of the pawl needs to be designed in the side of the case of the transmission, then if it fails it needs to alarm constantly until it’s replaced, then there needs to be a physical action required by the driver to verify safe control of the vehicle has been established.

At this point there is an open in the set up allowing the vehicle to be left in an unsafe position and remain that way without the knowledge and responsibility of the driver.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top