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Discussion Starter #1
I installed some Pioneer 1665's this weekend and I am disapointed after seeing all the positive reviews for them here. Bass is no better then the OEMs. Apply a 3dB limit to Pioneer's own response curve and they're only 100Hz speakers, not 30Hz as advertised...very deceptive! I also found them overly bright and boarderline harsh. They don't seem to present a feeling of being immersed in the sound either, although that could be in part the acoustics of the van. Bottom line, I paid $50 for them and that's about the level of improvement I think I got.

Before I saw all the recomendations for the Pioneers, I was going to buy Boston Acoustics, mostly based on my former experiences with them. The 11 year old two way 6 1/2's in my truck, driven by a cheap $50 KOSS CD player, would walk all over the three way 1665s. The BA's also cost 4x as much back then :). Anyone try any of the current crop of car speakers from Boston Acoustics? I have to admit, scanning the web page it seems like their target audience has changed greatly in the last 10 years.
 

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Hi,
I have a bit of experience with much of Boston's current lineup. I also did some bass frequency response measurements comparing the top end Pioneer 1695 (which is the speaker of choice of many in this forum) to the factory speaks and vs. Boston Acoustics RM6 coaxes.

Here's a link to the 1695 thread..

http://www.odyclub.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000094.html

Here's a link to my review...

http://www.odyclub.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000176.html

There's a wealth of info in this forum on all this stuff, but our search engine doesn't seem to work well (I couldn't find my own posts with it, just had to scan back!)

My 2 cents: if you liked Boston before, I think you will still like them. They are alot more expensive, but sounds like you want a different sound than the Pioneers can deliver.

The Pioneer 1695 is probably one of the best VALUES on the market now. For ~$80 online, hard to beat.

I have the RM6s in my Ody, I think they are better than the 1695, but if you pay close to retail, not sure if they are that much better.

I think for a coax, the RM6 is a good one, but I truly believe in components for best sound quality if you are willing to spend some money. Keep in mind that to truly reap the benefits of components, I think a custom install is required....

Now, I've listened to the Boston Pro series components and am not that impressed. They are harsh in the upper mids (as are the RM6s, a little bit), unless you go to the 3 way 6.53 system which is smoother. I have not really had a chance to critically listen to the new Rally series components, but last generation was pretty decent.

What is your price range, and what type of music do you listen to? That will determine more than anything what you should buy.

Your comment on bass response... well, the ody produces a HECK of a LOT of sub 60Hz noise and therefore you can't hear the bass well. Couple this with an ENORMOUS cabin volume and that's what you get: lack of bass response. Solution is getting a sub. If you look at my resonse plots, there is a surprising amount of bass up front when you look just at the response curve. Perception is a bit different when cruising on the freeway... Also, ultimately SPL is determined by efficiency, power output of head unit, excursion limit of speaker, etc...

Anyhow, I would stay away from Boston FX, I don't think you will not like them.

Personally, I love Boston Pro Subs, I really think they are some of the best, and for full range, I like Dynaudio. If you have money, look at A/D/S, Focal, Dynaudio, and MB Quart Q series, (maybe Diamond Audio) depending on your taste. Morel is pretty good too.

Again, with all this, SQ is very subjective, but that's what makes it fun...

Ask if you have more questions.

-SJ

p.s.- I know what you mean about Boston marketing... very different these days, but I think they still design very good mid to higher end stuff....

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Your comment on bass response... well, the ody produces a HECK of a LOT of sub 60Hz noise and therefore you can't hear the bass well. Couple this with an ENORMOUS cabin volume and that's what you get: lack of bass response. Solution is getting a sub. If you look at my resonse plots, there is a surprising amount of bass up front when you look just at the response curve. Perception is a bit different when cruising on the freeway... Also, ultimately SPL is determined by efficiency, power output of head unit, excursion limit of speaker, etc...</font>
I'm not at *all* disappointed with the Kelton sub, including on the freeway. Add in that it integrates very well with the Honda head unit, and it's a simple solution to consider.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Shinjohn, actually I think you already answered my question when you said "I have the RM6s in my Ody, I think they are better than the 1695, but if you pay close to retail, not sure if they are that much better."

The difference between the Pioneers in the Odyssey and the BA's in my truck are very pronounced, it's not the subtile difference which you seem to allude to. I litterally felt like I was immersed in the sound, not just listening to some speakers on the door. Same thing with the BA's in my livingroom...sit in the sweet spot and you'd never know you were listening to two channel stereo. The sound is extremely life like and comes from all around you. There was a time when Boston was known for their imaging, it almost sounds like they've lost the formula. :-(. I'll have to go audition some of newer BA's and the alturnatives you mention.
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by texneus:
Shinjohn, actually I think you already answered my question when you said "I have the RM6s in my Ody, I think they are better than the 1695, but if you pay close to retail, not sure if they are that much better."

The difference between the Pioneers in the Odyssey and the BA's in my truck are very pronounced, it's not the subtile difference which you seem to allude to. I litterally felt like I was immersed in the sound, not just listening to some speakers on the door. Same thing with the BA's in my livingroom...sit in the sweet spot and you'd never know you were listening to two channel stereo. The sound is extremely life like and comes from all around you. There was a time when Boston was known for their imaging, it almost sounds like they've lost the formula. :-(. I'll have to go audition some of newer BA's and the alturnatives you mention.
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One more thing: I've heard the 1665 in a store and agree with your comments on the brightness. In comparison, I think the 1695 is a much better speaker. Smoother, and more balanced, esp. when you have the horn adjusted properly.

Curious as to what Boston speakers you had in your truck back when... I've had different Bostons in my car(s) over the years...

I too have older Boston's in my living room. They do image GREAT!!


Anyhow, good luck on your speaker search!

-SJ
 

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Discussion Starter #6
"Curious as to what Boston speakers you had in your truck back when... I've had different Bostons in my car(s) over the years..."

Honestly do not remember. They were 2 way 6.5's. I acquired them about 10 years ago and had them in two different vehicles. I tossed the box after moving them to my "new" truck ~8 years ago and never looked back. Sad thing was I just refoamed the surrounds last winter. Should have took them out before I got rid of the "new" truck, hind sight being all it is and such.

My home speakers are T830-II's. They are about 12 years old. I loath the day I replace them but it's going to have to happen in the medium distant future. Two kids and a dog means they have been knocked over and beat up quite a bit the last couple of years.

I settled on the 1665 because they were three way (vs. two way for the 1695) and in the past I've never heard a horn loaded speaker that I liked. I should have auditioned before I bought, but impatience and price got the best of me. My bad...
 

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Wow, I've got the same speaks in my living room as my mains, what a coincidence!
If you like those speakers, I think I know what kind of sound you are used to.

These speakers IMHO do image very, very well. They also have a very "open" sound to them, a quality not represented very well in car audio.... Some audiophiles like a more neutral, distanced sound, I prefer the sound of these speakers at that particular price point...

So, I know I'm being wordy, but here is some more of my advice/opinions, given that I think your tastes are probably similar to mine...

I think the only Boston car speakers you might like are the RM6 or Rally components. Do give both an audition. The FX series are very, very bright, and the Pro Series, though good for some types of music, tend be be alot harsher, due to the aluminum dome tweeter. That's my experience. The RM6 and Rally both use the Kortec (silk) tweeter dome, and have a smoother sound. The RM6 would probably be closest in terms of characteristic sound to your home speakers, but the downside is what I think is a tad bit of upper midrange harshness. These speakers are not sibilant by any stretch of the imagination, but on some music, just scream at you a little too much (in comparison to your home setup).

Out of the brands I listed before, I'd like to narrow you down and add a couple, given your tastes. Stay away from MB Quart and Diamond audio, I think they will be too bright for you. Dynaudio will probably amaze you, but they are expensive ($800 retail for a set of 5.75" 2-way components, $490 online). A/D/S are very, very smooth, but not as "open" or "close" as your home Bostons, but give them a try. Take a look at McIntosh and Nakamichi too, they are well known and respected, very good products too and fairly pricey.

So again, this is a pricepoint issue, how much you are willing to spend to get the sound you want? I still think Pioneer 1695 is the best value out there; <$80 for a very decent sounding set of speakers. Not high end audiophile, but hard to beat at the price (best quality/price ratio).

Next if you wanna talk bang/buck, perhaps Boston Acoustics Rally Series, which can be had on ebay for $150-220 for the 6.5" 620 model, or RM6s if you can find a set for <$200 retail (sometimes also show up on ebay). RM6s are getting harder to find in stores these days...

Much more than 2 cents, but felt compelled to share.

Again, Good Luck!
-SJ

p.s.- I assume you live in TX, TEXneus? I grew up in Houston myself...

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I've always liked the "Boston" sound as well as their solid construction, especially the ProSeries. I have the ProSeries 5.4 components and 700 Series? 6.5 inch coaxes in my Prelude. I'd love to put a pair of ProSeries components in the Odyssey, but I really don't want to spend the $$$. I'm kinda disappointed in how fragmented Boston's product line has become over the past few years.

Shinjohn,
Do you have the factory tweeter disconnected in your system? I was just wondering how much they affect the sound with a coax speaker? Perhaps some of the brightness associated with a few of the installs is due to multiple tweeters being driven.
 

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CARTman said:

Shinjohn,
Do you have the factory tweeter disconnected in your system? I was just wondering how much they affect the sound with a coax speaker? Perhaps some of the brightness associated with a few of the installs is due to multiple tweeters being driven.
You got it. First thing I did when I installed the coaxes was disconnect the tweeters. I'm not a proponent of dash mounted main tweeters or even use of tweeters as "ambience" speakers....

The stock dash tweeters, however, are not that incredibly bright. I think more of the problems people have are related to aftermarket speaker selection. When you plug aftermarkets in, the dash tweeters tend to sound fairly tame. They are not that loud is what I'm saying.
 
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