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Discussion Starter #1
http://carpoint.msn.com/vip/Jedlicka/Honda/Odyssey/2002.asp


Memorable quote:

"A 'dead pedal' on which to rest a driver's left foot would be welcome, but Honda says such a pedal would compromise front crashworthiness. The Odyssey has had commendably high crash test scores."

Huh? How so? :-( Is it possible Chuck and I have comprimsed safety by drilling 3 holes in the frame? I don't buy it; sounds like Honda making an excuse for shaving a few dollars of the manufacturing costs....
 

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Its not the holes. Part of crash protection is to provide as much space as possible between the people and the front of the passenger compartment, so that when that area where the dead pedal would be is pushed back toward you, there is nothing there like a deadpedal to hit your leg and injure it. Do not know that they really have evaluated this, but in theory that is what they are thinking.
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by nyvram:
http://carpoint.msn.com/vip/Jedlicka/Honda/Odyssey/2002.asp


Memorable quote:

"A 'dead pedal' on which to rest a driver's left foot would be welcome, but Honda says such a pedal would compromise front crashworthiness. The Odyssey has had commendably high crash test scores."

Huh? How so? :-( Is it possible Chuck and I have comprimsed safety by drilling 3 holes in the frame? I don't buy it; sounds like Honda making an excuse for shaving a few dollars of the manufacturing costs....
</font>
I don't think the problem is caused by the additional holes.

I am no safety expert, but I have read that some injuries occur when the femur is pushed pushed backwards into pelvis or the tibia is displaced from the knee.

If there is a dead pedal against which the left foot is braced, that would cause greater force to be sent up the left leg, increasing the risk of injury.

IMHO, it's a little like arms and wrists being broken from holding on tight to the steering wheel when the wheel is shoved backwards towards the driver.

The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety has a detailed and interesting<a href="http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle%5Fratings/measures.pdf">article on the mechanics of injuries</a>.

Regards,

Maugham
 

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Slightly off-topic, but relevant to this review:

What's w/ the sliding door tracks comments? Every review says that they should be concealed like Chrysler, and they are ugly.

I like the "tracks" They look more like a thin slot than a track. The Chrysler "concealed" tracks look more like tracks, and even have VISIBLE SCREWS... and they aren't very "concealed" just because they are close to the window.

Anyone else think this or am I just weird?

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2002 Mesa Beige EX-L-RES w/ misaligned, hard to close driver door
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by pummal:
Slightly off-topic, but relevant to this review:

What's w/ the sliding door tracks comments? Every review says that they should be concealed like Chrysler, and they are ugly.

I like the "tracks" They look more like a thin slot than a track. The Chrysler "concealed" tracks look more like tracks, and even have VISIBLE SCREWS... and they aren't very "concealed" just because they are close to the window.

Anyone else think this or am I just weird?

</font>
Its just crapslyr/podge marketing dribble that they have the automotive media loking into (i.e. not reliablility, resale, quality).

Actually, if I remember from my evals, I think Mazda's was the most consealed if I recall correctly. Honda's isn't that well consealed, and it is still a minivan. No big deal.
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Maugham:
I don't think the problem is caused by the additional holes.

I am no safety expert, but I have read that some injuries occur when the femur is pushed pushed backwards into pelvis or the tibia is displaced from the knee.

If there is a dead pedal against which the left foot is braced, that would cause greater force to be sent up the left leg, increasing the risk of injury.

IMHO, it's a little like arms and wrists being broken from holding on tight to the steering wheel when the wheel is shoved backwards towards the driver.

The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety has a detailed and interesting<a href="http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle%5Fratings/measures.pdf">article on the mechanics of injuries</a>.

Regards,

Maugham
</font>
I'll concede a statistical increase in injury with the leg extended when there's an impact, but I'll gamble that it'll be offset by the increased maneuverability of the vehicle with the pedal installed resulting in driver's being able to "drive out" of the oncoming threat more often.

I long ago lost count of the accidents avoided by a hundredth of a second of quick maneuvering and using whatever handling the vehicle could provide. I'll go with whatever improves my chances there everytime.

The difference in "handle-ability" of the Ody is probably improved as much by being able to stay in position because of the pedal as by any other thing that could be added. If you cain't stay behind the wheel, ya cain't drive the danged thang!



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Chuck
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ckonarske:
...I long ago lost count of the accidents avoided by a hundredth of a second of quick maneuvering and using whatever handling the vehicle could provide. I'll go with whatever improves my chances there everytime....

The difference in "handle-ability" of the Ody is probably improved as much by being able to stay in position because of the pedal as by any other thing that could be added. If you cain't stay behind the wheel, ya cain't drive the danged thang!
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I assume that those hundreds of accidents weren't all avoided by having a deadpedal.

Never having had one, maybe I don't know what I'm missing. Honda's position is not completely invalid, though, there is some logic to it.

I assume that auto manufacturers design for the lowest common denominator in terms of driving skills, hence the need for more skilled drivers to provide their own enhancements.

I agree with you about being able to stay in position, that's definitely important.

I was broadsided by a hit-and-run driver who made an illegal left turn. My feet were knocked off the pedals but I held onto the steering wheel, enabling me to retain a bit of control.

My car's momentum carried me through three lanes of oncoming traffic before it came to rest against the wall of a sushi bar. While I would have preferred to have been able to find the brake at the time, I don't know if a deadpedal would have helped. Too, if I had stopped in the lanes of oncoming traffic instead of steering through them, maybe I would have been hit again.

Regards,

Maugham
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BobN:
Its just crapslyr/podge marketing dribble that they have the automotive media loking into (i.e. not reliablility, resale, quality).
B]</font>


Wow, sounds like a fanboy to me.

I personally would like the tracks to be hidden like the Chrysler minis. The Odys tracks are just too unsightly.


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Check out our 01 GG EX and 98 Corolla LE, other 02 Odys, and various model cars at http://community.webshots.com/user/ddakrt
 

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As for the door tracks. I think it's an individual matter. I happen to think that the DC windows look like someone cut the bottom off and that the frame around the window is exposed. To me the Honda ones look better.
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by RonD:
As for the door tracks. I think it's an individual matter. I happen to think that the DC windows look like someone cut the bottom off and that the frame around the window is exposed. To me the Honda ones look better.</font>

Ditto!!!
 

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<center>


<font size=-5>Dead pedal?


<font color=pink>


[This message has been edited by Maugham (edited 01-15-2002).]
 

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Just a follow-up on the Honda Odyssey design around the pedals of the car. Honda has done some homework and obviously some testing in this area. If you look just in from of the gas pedal there is a slight hard bump in the carpet. This bump is put here for the heel of your foot as to not move forward during a frontal impact and reduce leg injuries. If the bump were not there your leg would move forward more. I used to work for an OEM supplier and we designed the carpet for a Chrysler vehicle with this same bump. The bump reduced upper and lower leg injuries during actual test crashes. The Odyssey was used as a benchmark.
 

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My "dead pedal" is the brake pedal, since I left-foot brake (please, do not start another discussion on that point). When braking, I am very well stabilized and the only other thing I would really appreciate is that the lap portion of the belt would stay tight, as they used to do, in the old days, before the three-point belt system. I always felt much more secure when the lap belt was quite tight and I was held very still in the seat, ala a racing seat. Our DC van had a buckle on the passenger side which did just that and I could never understand why the driver's side was not the same. Maybe so he/she can reach for things while driving. Whatever the reason, I do not like the slack belt!

Jerry O.
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jerry O:
..the only other thing I would really appreciate is that the lap portion of the belt would stay tight, as they used to do, in the old days, before the three-point belt system. I always felt much more secure when the lap belt was quite tight and I was held very still in the seat, ala a racing seat...</font>
Same here!
 

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As I remember in crash investigation classes, three things happen in a collision. VEHICLE HITS AN OBJECT, YOUR BODY STRIKES THE VEHICLE, YOUR LOOSE INSIDES (BRAIN/ORGANS/ETC) STRIKE YOUR BODY (INSIDE).
The priority I would assume would be reactive interior design. For example a dash that extends down towards the floor so that the driver's knees strike and prevent the body from 'submerging' under the dash. In my experience (hundreds of crash investigations), properly adjusting the seatbelt, ensuring it's snug, and seating distance from the air bag seem to contribute to reduced injuries. Of course one of the biggest factors is also LUCK. I have pictures of fatal accidents that happened at low speeds and high speed 'total's' in which the occupant(s) walked away.
The mention that Honda added a 'bump' to the floor as a safety feature intrigues me. Of course my buddies Camaro also has a bump on the but on the passenger side floor (for the catalytic converter!).
I don't think that a Dead Pedal will make ANY difference in an accident. It's probably more dangerous sitting in the delivery box loose in the rear cargo area! Maybe the very term 'dead' pedal scares the Honda safety people...ha!

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2002 Silver EX
1996 VW Gti
1999 Pit Bull/Catahoula Leopard dogs
 

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FURTHER...
In looking at others posts on this discussion perhaps I can unbolt my aftermarket dead pedal and install it to cover the unsightly screws holding the factory sliding door....sorry, couldn't resist!


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2002 Silver EX
1996 VW Gti
1999 Pit Bull/Catahoula Leopard dogs
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by OdyRocky:
...I don't think that a Dead Pedal will make ANY difference in an accident. It's probably more dangerous sitting in the delivery box loose in the rear cargo area! Maybe the very term 'dead' pedal scares the Honda safety people...ha!

</font>
By reducing the distance between the body and the floor, a deadpedal could increase the force on the left leg in a head-on collision. Right?

The bump there now is flexible, it gives when pressed. Deadpedals generally don't do that, do they?

Regards,

Maugham
 

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Guess we need a controlled collapse dead pedal. Maybe Chuck can do an improved controlled collapse dead pedal.
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by RonD:
Guess we need a controlled collapse dead pedal. Maybe Chuck can do an improved controlled collapse dead pedal.</font>
Sorry, I'm VERY happy with the current configuration!




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Chuck
 
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