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Discussion Starter #1
Months ago, I read a message on either Yahoo (HOOC) or this (hon-ody) forum. This proud owner declared that installing the ATF-cooler was an easy job and would probably take about 20 minutes. I was really inspired by those words and decided to install my ATF-coller myself - I was ALSO inspired by the idea of saving $80.


Well, I just installed the ATF-cooler this Sunday. I have to say that I did not enjoy it at all and it was polar opposite to what I read. The "hose clamps" were too tiny and difficult to deal with. First I tried to use my fingers to release those "clamps"
- they were as stubborn as hell - after some "strugle", I learned to use a plier to do the job.

Then there was the factor of TIGHT engine compartment. Boy, I have spent 1.5 hours FLEXing my back and squeezing my arms into the little hole/space. Also, I had to use force to unplug the "ATF return line hose" from its original "pipe" - while at the same time, gentle enough not to break any parts.

I am not an experienced DIY'er but I have done several installations(eg. Cargo tray...
) What I'm mad at is the PERSON who declared the job as an easy job and under-estimating the time taken. 20 minute to do the ATF-cooler is pure bull...It took me more than 3 hours to install, check for leaks, drive around, refill ATF fluids and clean up. If I knew who that PERSON was, I would give him/her a piece of my mind.

Coz of this experience, I'm going to have the dealer install the sub and fogs. If it took me 3 hours to do a 2-paged-instructions, imagine how many hours will I spend on a 6-paged-instructions???

mad!!

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[This message has been edited by abyez (edited 10-22-2001).]
 

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Was your transmission cooler kit a Honda part, or Hayden, or what?
 

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I'll be installing an aftermarket cooler next weekend. I'll take pics.

Pray for me. LOL

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Jim
'01 GG EX w/stuff
'93 Nissan Sentra SE-R with more stuff
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Sinbad, mine is the Honda ATF-cooler. Is the Hayden cooler similar or better?? I have never heard or read any posts about Hayden - 4 months of absence maybe


Jim, what kind of cooler are you installing? Hey, I wish you luck and patience


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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by abyez:
Jim, what kind of cooler are you installing? Hey, I wish you luck and patience
</font>
Thanks!

I haven't nailed it down yet.

Permacool:


Summit Racing/Hayden/multitude of others:


I think I'll end up with the square type. Pep Boys has them for under $50.

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Jim
'01 GG EX w/stuff
'93 Nissan Sentra SE-R with more stuff
 

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FWIW: I really like the looks of the Permacool. The size and shape look similar to the Honda unit, but much more efficient. It looks like it wouldn't obstruct airflow to the radiator very much.

Any thoughts about adding a filter at the same time?

I'm anxiously waiting for your experiences and photos.

Mel
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mel:
FWIW: I really like the looks of the Permacool. The size and shape look similar to the Honda unit, but much more efficient. It looks like it wouldn't obstruct airflow to the radiator very much.

Any thoughts about adding a filter at the same time?

I'm anxiously waiting for your experiences and photos.

Mel
</font>
I like the Permacool too, but I may go with the square one because you can pick one up at any auto parts store. If I do a how-to with the Permacool there will be some people thinking that you can't use the square cooler. I want to show a very generic installation with very generic parts.

I've thought about the filter. I've even considered going nuts and running hard lines with AN connections to the cooler and filter. Again, I want to keep it generic so if I go with a filter, it'll be something you can get locally and cheap.

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Jim
'01 GG EX w/stuff
'93 Nissan Sentra SE-R with more stuff
 

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One VERY critical item which DIYers should be careful of when installing a transmission cooler is the routing of the hoses. They must clear any sharp edges on metal parts and, above all, they must make turns of radii which will preclude kinking, ala a garden hose. When I installed my last one, I made pipes (used metal brake line tubing) for the curves to insure that they would never close down and starve the transmission. The tubing I used was the type which can be bent by hand (they had a name for it, but I have forgotten it) and will not collapse. Once I had it bent, I found a proper sized ball bearing and made sure it would pass through the tube, thus, I was sure of full flow capacity. Just my experience.....

Jerry O.

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2001 Odyssey GG LX
 

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Discussion Starter #9
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jerry O:
...Once I had it bent, I found a proper sized ball bearing and made sure it would pass through the tube, thus, I was sure of full flow capacity...</font>
Wow, I didnt know that ATF install or "hose-bending" involves such careful design and sophistication. Well done JerryO.


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Here's another idea to consider: Normally, the added transmission cooler is added after the one built in to the radiator which provides maximum cooling to the ATF. A pretty good idea when we're concerned with maximum temperatures.

However, adding a cooler on a vehicle where there may be "excessive" cooling, e.g., very cold climates, a very large cooler, and/or light loads, could cause problems because of low temperature.

Therefore, it is possible to route the tubing so that the added cooler is placed before the standard radiator cooler. Thus, excessive cooling is counteracted by possible heating in the radiator. Assuming that the radiator operates at a max of about 210° F this heating shouldn't be too severe.

What do you think guys (I use the term generically)?

Mel
 

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I can't get on the perma-cool.com site now, but check there for optimum fluid temp. and cold weather tips. I think that you just have to let the radiator warm up on cold mornings before starting out, and THIS is one of the reason NOT to put the cooler up stream of the engine radiator
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Mel:
However, adding a cooler on a vehicle where there may be "excessive" cooling, e.g., very cold climates, a very large cooler, and/or light loads, could cause problems because of low temperature.
</font>
I'll cite references in my write up. While doing my research I talked to the guys at Level 10. 90% of automatic transmission failure is due to excessive heat. Driving around town, red light to red light, builds up more heat than going 100 mph on the highway. While accelerating the temp goes way up. It levels off and drops after the torque converter locks up. A soccer mom in hauling the team and equipment around town creates as much heat in the tranny as I did when I drag raced my Mustang.

Overcooling the tranny isn't as critical as overcooling the engine oil. In fact, I've been told by a few authorities it's a non-issue. Your mileage may vary.


Any transmission experts out there want to chime in?
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Jim
'01 GG EX w/stuff
'93 Nissan Sentra SE-R with more stuff

[This message has been edited by Jim F (edited 10-25-2001).]
 

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I have long labored under the impression that the cooler should be upstream of the OE cooler, due to the overcooling issue. It may only be a possible problem in Duluth or somewhere in the frozen north, if at all. I, too, would like to hear from transmission pros on the subject.

Jerry O.

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2001 Odyssey GG LX
 

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I'll do some more digging on the subject. I'll include it in my write up.


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Jim
'01 GG EX w/stuff
'93 Nissan Sentra SE-R with more stuff
 

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Does the Honda cooler have a pressure bypass. I had a 89 Voyager that was recalled to put a bypass around the transmission cooler. When it got cold the transmission hesitated when put into drive. About a week after I first noticed the problem, the recall notice came. The pressure bypass fixed the problem.
 

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I tried a Hayden RapidCool trans cooler before settled for a factory cooler.
It is true that heat is the main reason for a transmission failure. Changing trans fluid more frequently will certainly help extend the life of transmission.
Most of the light duty trucks use stacked plate not tube-and-fin cooler. It provides less pressure drop and more surface area (better cooling). The only disadvantage is not suitable for racing (higher pressure) application.
If you really insist on tube-and-fin trans cooler, I would make sure flow rate of cooler meets factory requirement.
I have never seen an external trans cooler mounted upstream of radiator cooler. With thermostat and thermostatic fans, I don't think transmission can be overcooled.
Some trans coolers have thermostatic bypass valve to bring trans fluid to operating temperature quicker. The purpose of pressure bypass valve (in case of E4OD) is to maintain line pressure in case of failure.
 

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Per the www.perma-cool.com site, optimum operating temperature for the transmission fluid is between 165 and 200 degrees Fahrenheit. The have kit with a filter and temperature gauge.
 
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