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Even President #44 is glad you got this done, HarryX:

"Phew! So glad that HarryX got that Odyssey back on the road!" (I think he said this while looking at his Odyclub page between speaking engagements)

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Please no political remarks. I just thought this was a neat pic that somehow fit the tension, and then relief we all felt over this. Like the wise old TheOwl said, HarryX is in the minority of people who report back on the results, and we're glad he did, with good news.

(y) (y) (y)

OF
 

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My local Honda Dealer told me $8 for the transmission crush washer for my '16 Ody. I responded to the parts clerk "that's for one washer, not a 10 pack?" He said he would just give me one if I came by. Apparently, he thought that $8 for an aluminum washer (that they get in bulk) is a bit outrageous as well. I ended up buying a copper crush washer from Napa that was closer to me. Does not leak and cost less than $1.

On a side note.... I discovered the hard way on my '01 Ody that the drain and fill bolts were stupidly difficult to remove. I am guessing easy 200 ft-lbs of torque to break the fill bolt free. I figure out when I tried to remove the aftermarket filter I installed in a less than ideal location that the friction modified fluid has more to do with removal than installation torque. I hand tightened the can filter for the tranny and I could not get it off with any wrench. I bought 3 filter removal tools that destroyed the filter housing and took 3 hours to get off. That friction modified transmission fluid (same oil base for the engine with different modifiers) is stupid sticky as it is designed to increase friction at contact points. I am not sure what would reduce the friction on the bolts other than maybe a thin coat of Hondabond or similar sealant on the threads to prevent the fluid from sticking them together.
 

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I ended up buying a copper crush washer from Napa that was closer to me.
Copper may corrode in contact with aluminum.

That's one reason why aluminum wiring was problematic. People often spliced copper wire to it. Corrosion at the joint produced resistance which started fires.

I get my washers in bulk from RockAuto.
 

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Agree. Washers are cheap. You can probably get 100 of them for less than $10.

Don’t forget to buy new fill plug washers too.
 

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Pic is from an Gen 6 Accord. OEM drain plug. They can eventually rust; the OEM drain plugs don't appear to be made out of stainless steel. Also, un-coated stainless fasteners and aluminum threads are not compatible. An electroplated regular steel fastener is what most OEM's use.
The first time I removed my ATF drain plug, it was a bear. Prior to that, my mechanic had used the hoses to flush the Tranny. The plug itself was corroded, and my 3/8" socket would not fit completely inside. Had I tried to remove it at that point, it prolly would have twisted out like HarryX. I had to painstakingly clean it out by scraping the insides and then burying the socket inside with my brass hammer. Even then, I needed to add a cheater bar for more leverage. I think the remaining corrosion helped to hold the socket in the plug while I torqued it off. That plug magnet inside was loaded with fines.

After cleaning the bolt head, putting corrosion inhibitor on it, buying a pack of washers, and torquing it properly, Drain'n'Fills are really easy now.
 
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Copper may corrode in contact with aluminum.

That's one reason why aluminum wiring was problematic. People often spliced copper wire to it. Corrosion at the joint produced resistance which started fires....
Where were you when I bought my first home!?! :p

The previous owners re-wired the kitchen in the 1970's. There were scorch marks above the electrical outlets in that part of the house. I just surrendered and had all of that aluminum wiring removed and replaced with pure copper. Did not want to die in a house fire due to corrosion of dissimilar metals in contact at a splice. :whistle: phew

This is relevant to our threaded steel fasteners-in-aluminum discussion. Dissimilar metals placed together at a physical contact point can corrode where any sort of moisture could be present, even via humidity. Generic steel fasteners are a great choice for strength and durability, but they will cause corrosion when used to fasten alloys commonly used in constructing an aluminum engine. The threads can seize, making fastener removal impossible. I had to ask my friends who fix airplanes to gain a little knowledge on that. So, now I know why all of those Honda fasteners have that silver-gold sheen to them. The electroplate is durable with good surface hardness, and is perfect for multiple-time use on our vehicles with aluminum stuff to be fastened.

Something else I learned: many times, these fasteners, when used in critical aero applications, are one-time use. Once threaded in and any torque applied, if removed, they have to be discarded and a new fastener installed.

Agree. Washers are cheap. You can probably get 100 of them for less than $10.

Don’t forget to buy new fill plug washers too.
I have no idea why Honda charges sooooooo much for these. Commercialy pure aluminum is less expensive than high-strength alloys, and is really malleable, perfect for a crush washer. You have to use engineered alloys to get the strength we need for blocks, heads, wing spars, skateboards, etc. A crush washer has to be pretty close to pure aluminum to allow itself to be extruded like that when we apply light torque to that drain bolt, ergo, not very expensive aluminum.

I got a hundred of them online, years ago, for the oil drain pan, and a slightly smaller number for the ATF plug. I'll bet it's not even "beer can aluminum" (which is probably a pretty strong alloy), but just plain commercially pure aluminum. Shouldn't cost $8.00 per each!

Out of curiosity, this morning I grabbed a previously-used ATF plug crush washer that was sitting on my desk and tapped it on an anvil with a regular claw hammer. Was able to almost turn it into a circle of thin foil with very little effort. It did start to work harden as I approached about 1/64" of thickness.

After cleaning the bolt head, putting corrosion inhibitor on it, buying a pack of washers, and torquing it properly, Drain'n'Fills are really easy now.
As long as the electroplate on the plug's threads are in good shape, you're going to be golden (both you and the plug...didn't intend a pun, it just came out that way).

I've seen these shiny fasteners since the 1970's. Had no idea why they had that electroplate on them. Now I know.

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The pricing of the drain bolt crush washers is crazy and erratic, with Majestic indicating that Honda's MSRP is US$3.33 for the ATF washer, and US$0.53 for the essentially similar (though slightly smaller) engine oil drain bolt crush washer.

Then you get into dealer pricing/profit strategy. Many business management advisors point out that the parts staff labor cost (ordering, stocking, fetching, invoicing, etc) is the same for a 30 cent washer as for a 500 dollar alternator, with inexpensive parts essentially being sold at a loss. So, they recommend a minimum markup on any part, or several tiers of minimums. Is that greed, or simply a realistic business decision? I'll leave the judging to others, and buy from sellers who do not apply the fixed dollar minimum markup strategy.
 
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Last time I checked, I could buy a pack of 50 engine oil drain bolt crush washers for $9 on Amazon. I think 25 of them is $6. I don't know if I really need 50... that's a lot. Don't know if I'll ever use them all, even if my future cars use the same crush washers.

I bought 10 Dorman crush washers for the ATF drain bolt on my Toyotas for $7.30 on RockAuto... so 73 cents each. Last I checked, they fit the Odyssey ATF drain bolt too.

Really no need to get these types of things from Honda, IMO. They don't have special metals.
 
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The pricing of the drain bolt crush washers is crazy and erratic, with Majestic indicating that Honda's MSRP is US$3.33 for the ATF washer, and US$0.53 for the essentially similar (though slightly smaller) engine oil drain bolt crush washer.
You are paying for handling, not the cost of a washer. In small quantities, the cost of handling and packaging far exceeds the cost of that cheap aluminum washer.

Why don't they just provide a couple dozen washers with every new car? Costs them nothing. Better yet, provide a "spare parts" kit with every new car.
 
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I just surrendered and had all of that aluminum wiring removed and replaced with pure copper. Did not want to die in a house fire due to corrosion of dissimilar metals in contact at a splice. . . . It did start to work harden as I approached about 1/64" of thickness.
I also have some aluminum wiring in my house, and perhaps the bigger problem, as you said, is work hardening by repeated expansion/contraction due to electrical current.
 

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Why don't they just provide a couple dozen washers with every new car? Costs them nothing. Better yet, provide a "spare parts" kit with every new car.
Nothing costs nothing. Haven't you learned from the millions of commercials that advertise "Second one free, just pay a separate fee!" 🤑
 

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Nothing costs nothing. Haven't you learned from the millions of commercials that advertise "Second one free, just pay a separate fee!" 🤑
So . . . . you didn't like my idea of providing free ATF plug washers with every new car? I thought I was on to something. lol
 

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So . . . . you didn't like my idea of providing free ATF plug washers with every new car? I thought I was on to something. lol
Didn't say I don't like it. I was just trying to avoid an economics lecture from one of the trolls around here. But unless the total price of all related required purchases is zero, it ain't free.

On a more serious level, what % of people would actually use such DIY items? Under or over 5%? I say under. Like the % of people who crack open the OM. Why some manufacturers have stopped included printed manuals.
 

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Before you know it, printed manuals will become a "dealer-installed option"
 

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Before you know it, printed manuals will become a "dealer-installed option"
I'll stand corrected, but I think a friend's '17 CRV came without a printed manual. First owner had 6 months or so to contact Honda and request printed copy. Otherwise, read online or download and print it yourself. Maybe one could purchase a copy for $40. But I guess so few people miss 'em it makes $$ sense to only provide on request.
 

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Tbh... very few people DIY anything car-related anymore. I have one relative who does all sorts of repairs on his cars. Another who only does oil changes. Dad does oil changes too, and nothing else. Pretty much all of my friends and family friends won't touch anything under the hood. Lots of them love going to the dealership, too...

Nobody understands why I hate the lack of a transmission dipstick or why I don't like direct injection. They're more concerned about Apple Carplay and the size of their center infotainment screen.
 

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I hear you. I'm an engineer. The first thing I do when I check out a new vehicle (even at auto shows) is to open the hood and check out the engine. I like to see how it is all laid out and designed and how easy or difficult engine maintenance or repairs might be. I care about design, style, mechanical systems, etc....

I could care less about navigation units, infocenters, dashboard displays, entertainment stuff, .... even cupholders.
I read owners manuals cover to cover.
 

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Nobody understands why I hate the lack of a transmission dipstick or why I don't like direct injection.
I've become more accepting of the disappeared dipstick after reading that one of the reasons to delete it is to reduce availability of oxygen within the tranny so as to reduce oxidation of the ATF. In support of the mostly fiction claim of "lifetime" fluid. Yes, the fuid will last the life of the tranny, because the tranny will die when the fluid no longer does its job.
 

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i would not mind download option only. Printed ones just take up room in my glove compartment.
PDFs are great. Gotta' love Ctrl f. But for for those of us who like to READ it to learn (as opposed to searching to problem solve), printed works better. And you can readily solve the GB room issue. The trees are already dead, you're not killing them by tossing the printed manual.
 
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