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I know the stock rotors and pads are fully compatible but I'm wondering how and why these aren't?! I guess the Centric calipers I've used are remanufactured OEMs so only the rotors are aftermarket as the pads are also 2010 Pilot's genuine. Do you think that I should buy and replace those Wagners with Pilot rotors?
Is it right to assume I tossed nearly $1k for nothing and I'd better put back the stock brakes and just keep the SS lines?
p.s. today I bumped on a 2008 Ridgeline and took pictures of its front brakes and as expected everything matches up as it should so I'm really confused with my case...
OEM or whatever pads/rotors you get, that's how it is. Yes...you just wasted $1k. I warned people before.

Go back to stock setup and SS lines. That's the best bank for buck. This is coming from someone (me) who actually goes on the track. You won't be tracking your van so you don't need a serious setup.

If you want the best for racing applications (master cylinder, 6 piston caliper or whatever) you will have to spend 5k-6k in just parts alone.
 

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Yeah, I've never understood why people jumped into the Pilot brake "upgrade" so quickly. I never had any issue with the brakes on my Ody (other than some warpage on the original rotors) but understand that some do. I researched it and decided that any increase in size of the rotor/pad was going to be offset by the wrong master cylinder causing lower pedal.

I decided it wasn't worth the trouble. There are still those that think it's great, I'm sure.
 

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Yeah, I've never understood why people jumped into the Pilot brake "upgrade" so quickly. I never had any issue with the brakes on my Ody (other than some warpage on the original rotors) but understand that some do. I researched it and decided that any increase in size of the rotor/pad was going to be offset by the wrong master cylinder causing lower pedal.

I decided it wasn't worth the trouble. There are still those that think it's great, I'm sure.
Damn! Where were you when I was enquiring on this thread prior to ordering the parts :rolleyes:
Actually I didn't experience any warpage issues on the stocks. It was only that weird feeling that I was trying to stop something that doesn't want to be stopped that made me go for the swap. And of course the "day and night" difference a few claimed it was delivering. I was used to the brakes of my other car which is a much lighter Honda Accord and wanted some similar feeling with the Ody. I guess I just have to get used to it. My mistake is I didn't went first by the easiest and most affordable option which was the SS lines...
 

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Discussion Starter #266
Mr Ranger... how goes it... Its funny that your Avatar is American Honda's One Lap of America race Odyssey... Have you been following them? I have spoken to the actual engineers who built the original One Lap Ody's...when they were still running 3rd Gen Odys, and picked their brains about brake upgrades. This was before they went to full, custom, BREMBO BBK setups.
I was originally planning to use the '08 MDX rotors, and calipers, but learned that Honda's own race team engineers were using Pilot calipers instead, with the MDX rotors (same part).

This was what got me to research more in that direction before actually taking the jump. Honda's own engineers in Ohio had their choice from Honda's parts catalogs, and they chose the Pilot calipers. After doing research, I understood too, that the MDX pistons were too big, and the Pilot's were the smallest pistons, for the biggest rotor combo. Anyway, that is why I had full confidence this would work. Not to mention I've been installing BBK's in every car I own... Brembo F40 calipers in my Denali, Porsche Brembo 18Z in my Audi A6, Stoptech 6/4 calipers on my M5, Brembo Lotus calipers on my Z3, Brembo GT kit on my B5 A4 (450hp)... and countless more on customer cars when I used to work as an installer at a tuning shop over 20 yrs ago... and Yes, I do track my cars as well. I build/rebuild and tune my own motors as well... so wrenching wise, I'd say I'm fine.

Personally, I firmly believe this swap is an upgrade if they feel like stock brakes are lacking... I'm no noob to brakes, and I liked the upgrade so much on my '09 Ody. I even swapped to Pilot brakes on my '08 Ridgeline... (taller tires, and sometimes towing w/o trailer brakes)... and it has made a NOTICEABLE, positive difference. Even people who test drove my Ody when I sold it (the '09) mentioned how good the brakes felt, and Wifey loved the improvement as well. Placebo? lol.. sure buddy. You should try the swap, and then tell me it sucks... but hey, to each their own~

That being said... yes, the pedal does feel a pinch softer on top w/ the stock master cylinder. Its like the first 1/2" of pedal travel... but once you get past it, the stopping power IS there. You get used to it.

Also... Yes.. you can screw this up and not feel improvements... by still having air in your lines... make sure to Bleed the system really well... AND by running ceramic pads.
By all means, this is supposed to be an upgrade to braking power... PLEASE DO NOT use brake pads with Ceramic~ They suck on stopping power, and have a mushy feel to them.
Trust me I've tried many many pads... from full race pads down to cheap lifetime pads. I even have Ceramic pads in my Lexus and absolutely hate it. My rims stay cleaner longer, but brakes feel like mush. Does the job for standard duty. but please dont give away braking power when youre trying to improve it. Ceramic pads are like going to the race track with all season tires...

From my EXPERIENCE... there IS improvement over stock when using Genuine Honda brake pads for Pilot calipers. Skip Ceramic, and "lifetime" warranty brake pads.
Also, EBC Yellow, HAWK HPS, LTS, etc, work well too.

Lastly, if you did this upgrade and feel it isnt better... please check your tires too. I was running 245 width tires, and the braking was great. I helped swap this on my friend's Ody and he had 235 all seasons... and with mildly,aggressive braking, it felt like it would engage ABS sooner than mine... meaning skid sooner... meaning more braking power.
More grip will definitely compliment improved brakes...
 

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Newsflash: Genuine Honda brake pads are ceramic pads. Most OEM pads these days are ceramic.
 

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The above post is why I don't jump into these "brake upgrade" threads.
 

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Discussion Starter #269
Damn! Where were you when I was enquiring on this thread prior to ordering the parts :rolleyes:
Actually I didn't experience any warpage issues on the stocks. It was only that weird feeling that I was trying to stop something that doesn't want to be stopped that made me go for the swap. And of course the "day and night" difference a few claimed it was delivering. I was used to the brakes of my other car which is a much lighter Honda Accord and wanted some similar feeling with the Ody. I guess I just have to get used to it. My mistake is I didn't went first by the easiest and most affordable option which was the SS lines...
Hi Prozac... its evident that there's a lot of factors in brakes... but this swap was initiated as the CHEAPEST way to mechanically improve the tiny, underpowered, brakes on the 3rd gen Ody.
Getting SS lines is a good idea, and a natural step in my book (but some people dont care for them)... as they hold pressure better than rubber lines, and technically wont rot... but they can be damaged from improper handling, so please do be careful with them too. They're not invincible. Also, the fresh fluid, when swapping SS lines will help maintain proper boiling point (I'd recommend synthetic DOT4). All this means is it will help reduce some mushy feeling, and fluid can handle a bit more temp before it boils over and lets the pedal drop, in case your brakes overheat someday...
But please note, many people dont feel a difference with just SS lines/fluid swap.

Also.. please dont think this is a magical swap. Of course you can still warp the Pilot swap...
but it WILL stop you quicker/sooner than stock, which may help reduce the braking "On" time.
And less braking time = less heat.
Less heat = lower chance of warping
Less heat = lower chance of fluid boiling (pedal getting softer)
and bigger rotor = more metal mass, to handle more heat (over stock)
and bigger rotor = better mechanical leverage to stock a spinning object (wheel)

If you want brakes that "wont" warp... get ready to invest $$$$ in high performance calipers (4-6 piston), larger diameter 2-piece floating rotors, wheels to fit them, and tires to grip.
You'll be smiling every time you stop.

Anyway, hope you get yours sorted and get some benefit from them...
Good luck, and stay safe!
 

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Why is it that I've never had any issue with my 08 Ody brakes and they stop my vehicle quickly and perfectly? I'm just not convinced there is a mechanical deficiency in the size of the brakes. "Warping" is not caused by brakes that are too small. It's caused by low quality pads and/or rotors.
 

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Discussion Starter #271
Newsflash: Genuine Honda brake pads are ceramic pads. Most OEM pads these days are ceramic.
Please show proof that 2010 Pilot pads are ceramic.
where are you getting this fact from? Do you mean organic pads?

One quick way to tell, is how dirty do your wheel get w/ brake dust.
The cars I tried ceramic pads on have clean wheels for months~
meanwhile non-ceramic brake pads get dirty in less than a week.
 

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Many of the RockAuto listings will tell you what was OE on the vehicle. Ceramic is what most manufacturers have been using for the last 10 years...with exceptions, of course. See the Akebono listings below.

 

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Here's for your 2010 Pilot. Same thing. "OE Pad Material is Ceramic"

 

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Discussion Starter #274
Why is it that I've never had any issue with my 08 Ody brakes and they stop my vehicle quickly and perfectly? I'm just not convinced there is a mechanical deficiency in the size of the brakes. "Warping" is not caused by brakes that are too small. It's caused by low quality pads and/or rotors.
Yes... you are correct there too~ low quality pads/rotors will have more issues.

That being said, I dont know how you drive... or how much load you carry,
but are you aware the 3rd gen Ody is same caliper for a 2007 CRV (3500 lbs curb)?
And the rotor is a measly 296mm diameter. The curb weight of the Ody is also 4500 lbs.
These numbers should be a headscratcher, even on paper.

BTW, all current model Ody, Ridgeline, Passport, Pilot (all around 4500 lbs curb weight) are sharing the exact same rotor... 320mm diameter.
You think Honda should have stuck with the 296mm rotors and 16" wheels? It would have saved cost and weight, if they did...
Meanwhile, the 2010 Pilot (MDX) rotor swap is 330mm.

No brainer... for those who cant leave anything alone (like me)... or just want more than what "stock" has to offer
 

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I'm aware and don't care. I've read all the threads and usually stay out. This is why. I've carried my entire family of 6 plus bags filling the back from bottom to top. The brakes work fine if serviced correctly. They don't need to be modified. If you like to modify, then that's fine. Problem is that people read this stuff then try it and find it didn't do them any good, wasting $1000 and wished someone would have chimed in to say don't waste your time and money.

Stainless brake hoses? OK...I can see that. It's probably a good idea to change brake hoses more often, even if only with new OE brake hoses. To be honest, I've never changed brake hoses on any car I own but I've seen enough anecdotal evidence to believe it can make a difference in pedal feel.
 

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Discussion Starter #276
Here's for your 2010 Pilot. Same thing. "OE Pad Material is Ceramic"

LOL... youre saying genuine Honda pads are ceramic because of RockAuto's product list?
Thats funny.

Btw, RockAuto has listing for Centric Semi-Metallic pads in their listing too...
My understanding was stocks were Semi-Metallic... and also used Organic pads.

Haha.. let me leave this here too... Ceramic pads for braking performance is a joke.
... but not everyone is looking for most effective braking performance.

Ceramic has a weaker felt braking power... again, coming from experience in multiple vehicles.
I tried to give ceramic a try... even in my Audi A6 twin turbo, w/ Porsche 6 piston Brembo calipers..
hated it.. didnt even feel like an upgrade, but my wheels stayed so clean!
Later swapped to EBC Yellow, and WOW... eye balls feel like theyre gonna leave the socket.
Still have Ceramic mush pads in my LX430 (4 piston calipers). Havent swapped it out yet because car barely gets driven.

***and I still dont believe Genuine Honda Pilot pads are ceramic. They perform quite well, and get my wheels nice and dirty. :)
 

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I suppose you won't believe the Advance Auto listings that say the OE pad material is ceramic, either.


Edit: The link above works...not sure why it says "down for maintenance."

Again, this is why I usually stay out of these threads. Turns into a pissing contest with people who think they know more than they really do.
 

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I am still torn. I so want to upgrade. My Ody does stop fine. But it freaks the hell outta me on every panic stop. Shopping for tires now and perhaps I should upgrade with used parts to save the $1000 cost factor.

But. Odds are. I will just slap on the new tires on the stock 16s and be done. Had this not required a larger wheel, I'd so have done this upgrade already. Whether it works or not would have been immaterial at that point. I would just feel good with the placebo effect.
 

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Discussion Starter #279
I'm aware and don't care. I've read all the threads and usually stay out. This is why. I've carried my entire family of 6 plus bags filling the back from bottom to top. The brakes work fine if serviced correctly. They don't need to be modified. If you like to modify, then that's fine. Problem is that people read this stuff then try it and find it didn't do them any good, wasting $1000 and wished someone would have chimed in to say don't waste your time and money.

Stainless brake hoses? OK...I can see that. It's probably a good idea to change brake hoses more often, even if only with new OE brake hoses. To be honest, I've never changed brake hoses on any car I own but I've seen enough anecdotal evidence to believe it can make a difference in pedal feel.
You are correct... Not everyone feels the brake we inefficient... but some do. I highly felt so... and know a vehicle is capable of better stopping performance.
I also loved the handling of my Ody even in canyons, and mtns... Sequioa, PCH, Monterey, etc. and Yes, I wanted more.
Plus we had a few "Oh Sh*t" moments where the brakes just thought stopping was a suggestion... Unacceptable for my family and I.

Again, what you do w/ your money is your choice. I did my swap when I needed new rotors and pads anyway. My only extra investment were calipers.
Absolutely, Id' say this is a "budget" upgrade and not a $1000 swap. (Real BBK upgrades can cost $2000-3500)
(SS lines were something extra I did because it was perfect opportunity... and I wanted to for my own reasons)
 

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Discussion Starter #280
I suppose you won't believe the Advance Auto listings that say the OE pad material is ceramic, either.


Again, this is why I usually stay out of these threads. Turns into a pissing contest with people who think they know more than they really do.
John, no worries.. I'm not trying to piss on anyone... but you can continue to as you please.
I'm just wiping up the piss so dont feel bad about it.

Yea, what do I know about brakes... says the guy using Rock Auto and Advance auto product selection as their source of "facts". Hahaha.. what a joke.
I havent read all the posts myself either... but just thought I'd check this update since I'm working from home from this Covid situation.

I understand all forums have "That Guy" who talks sh*t because something didnt work right for them.
I'm sorry you feel I'm making people dump $1k away.
But for those who know.... know.

Anyway, enjoy your CRV brakes~
 
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