Honda Odyssey Forum banner

281 - 300 of 305 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,701 Posts
Where is your source that says they're organic or semi-metallic?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
Discussion Starter #282
I am still torn. I so want to upgrade. My Ody does stop fine. But it freaks the hell outta me on every panic stop. Shopping for tires now and perhaps I should upgrade with used parts to save the $1000 cost factor.

But. Odds are. I will just slap on the new tires on the stock 16s and be done. Had this not required a larger wheel, I'd so have done this upgrade already. Whether it works or not would have been immaterial at that point. I would just feel good with the placebo effect.
DV, if you really are looking for better stopping performance... grippier tires WILL help. personally, I'd consider 245's too. You'll notice better handling as well.
...and as other mentioned... keep the braking system tip/top... fresh fluid helps. At this age, even new rubber brake lines (Genuine Honda) ones will be a good preventative measure, as rubber rots and get questionable, especially after 10 yrs or so.

... and if you are keeping stock brakes... do yourself a favor and get performance brake pads. Look into EBC yellow, Hawk LTS, or something in that level. They will cost a little more than Genuine pads, but its the real deal. I would avoid autopart-store bought "lifetime" pads and "ceramic". Ceramic sounds really good, techy, and modern. Its great in everything, but brake pads.

Btw...its not just placebo... 😁
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,701 Posts
Be careful going with any performance brake pads. Brake pads are always a trade off between longevity, hot performance, amount of dust, rotor wear, but also cold performance. Some performance pads have to be hot to work well and when cold will not work to your liking. If you're going to go with a performance brake pad don't just take the word of "some guy" on the Internet.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
Discussion Starter #284
Where is your source that says they're organic or semi-metallic?
The BLACK brake dust on my Ody and Ridgeline wheels that have Pilot Calipers and Genuine Honda pads tell me so.

This is actually an interesting topic tho. Let me ask some Honda Engineers directly, and get the real facts.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
Discussion Starter #285
Be careful going with any performance brake pads. Brake pads are always a trade off between longevity, hot performance, amount of dust, rotor wear, but also cold performance. Some performance pads have to be hot to work well and when cold will not work to your liking. If you're going to go with a performance brake pad don't just take the word of "some guy" on the Internet.
Again... Piss piss piss.

Nobody is saying you have to do as I say. take all you read and make your own choices...
Thats right,... I'm just "Some Guy" on the internet... so are you.

If you have been obssesing over braking performance like I have for over 25 yrs... then actually trying things, experimenting, testing.. etc.. then let's chat.
But you really going to piss all over some facts I share from actual experience? SMH.

Again, if you feel stock brakes were inadequate... I'm simply sharing my actual experiences I've learned over the decades...because I want more.
If you just want to piss anywhere because you're ignorant... just ignore this thread~ Let it go.

If you know brakes and performance... the stuff I posted will make sense.
Its just fun chat. Your choice if you actually do it or not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,701 Posts
I'd be willing to bet I've done more brake jobs in the last year than you've probably done in your life. Ceramic pads also make a very nice BLACK brake dust. Ceramic is used because the noise they make is above the frequency range that can be heard by humans.

Wait, I thought you already had evidence from somewhere that they are organic or semi-metallic. Now you need to go find your Honda Engineers? I've got two reputable sources, easily verified above by anyone who wants to click on a link. You've got just your opinion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,701 Posts
To me, the Pilot brake upgrade gives you a bigger rotor but the pad doesn't cover the whole thing so you're really not getting the effect of the full 24mm of extra rotor diameter. You probably do get a slightly bigger pad but I don't know exactly how much bigger. So, while theoretically there will be some increased brake capacity you're not getting as much as it looks like. Rather than comparing rotor size, I'd compare pad size. You may get a bit more heat disspation with more metal in the rotor, however.

The master cylinder size vs the caliper size has already been opined about. If I was going to do this I would only do it with a Pilot master cylinder but then what is the affect on the rear brakes? Maybe they're the same...I haven't checked. What does it do to the ABS/VSA system? Nobody knows as you're modifying a system without the engineering that goes into the entire vehicle.

I'd just into a modification like this with extreme caution. What if you sell the vehicle and the vehicle is later involved in an accident? There's just a lot to consider before making modifications like this. In the old days without ABS and computers running everything and integrating with other safety systems a brake upgrade was no big deal. Now it's something to consider. We haven't always lived insuch a litigious society either.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Prozac84

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Also... Yes.. you can screw this up and not feel improvements... by still having air in your lines... make sure to Bleed the system really well... AND by running ceramic pads.
By all means, this is supposed to be an upgrade to braking power... PLEASE DO NOT use brake pads with Ceramic~ They suck on stopping power, and have a mushy feel to them.

From my EXPERIENCE... there IS improvement over stock when using Genuine Honda brake pads for Pilot calipers.

Lastly, if you did this upgrade and feel it isnt better... please check your tires too. I was running 245 width tires, and the braking was great. I helped swap this on my friend's Ody and he had 235 all seasons... and with mildly,aggressive braking, it felt like it would engage ABS sooner than mine... meaning skid sooner... meaning more braking power.
More grip will definitely compliment improved brakes...
Joe, I've actually followed your parts list and recommendations throughout this thread. I even posted my shopping cart list and you confirmed that it looks fine and indeed suggested to pick the OEM Pilot pads and I did so.
My mechanic was very persistent about the bleeding process and it took him maybe an hour. At the end of it he took the car for a test drive to see if there are any signs of remaining air into the system. He was the leading mechanic for the national Honda dealership for over 20 years so he has experience and knowledge at least for how to properly bleed brakes.
I guess it's still too early to give an objective assessment on the final result because the new parts are still in the bedding process but we couldn't figure out why is this pad and rotor contact area difference and isn't this going to inevitably cause the rotor to warp due to uneven wearing of the rotor surface?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,701 Posts
I don't think you're going to have a rotor warping issue. Most rotors when having "warping" issues aren't really warped. They usually just have uneven pad material embedded into the rotor. Proper pad bedding can prevent this, as well as not holding the brakes when they are extremely hot, like after a hard stop from high speed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Prozac84

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Hi Prozac... its evident that there's a lot of factors in brakes... but this swap was initiated as the CHEAPEST way to mechanically improve the tiny, underpowered, brakes on the 3rd gen Ody.
Getting SS lines is a good idea, and a natural step in my book (but some people dont care for them)... as they hold pressure better than rubber lines, and technically wont rot... but they can be damaged from improper handling, so please do be careful with them too. They're not invincible. Also, the fresh fluid, when swapping SS lines will help maintain proper boiling point (I'd recommend synthetic DOT4). All this means is it will help reduce some mushy feeling, and fluid can handle a bit more temp before it boils over and lets the pedal drop, in case your brakes overheat someday...
But please note, many people dont feel a difference with just SS lines/fluid swap.

Also.. please dont think this is a magical swap. Of course you can still warp the Pilot swap...
but it WILL stop you quicker/sooner than stock, which may help reduce the braking "On" time.
And less braking time = less heat.
Less heat = lower chance of warping
Less heat = lower chance of fluid boiling (pedal getting softer)
and bigger rotor = more metal mass, to handle more heat (over stock)
and bigger rotor = better mechanical leverage to stock a spinning object (wheel)

If you want brakes that "wont" warp... get ready to invest $$$$ in high performance calipers (4-6 piston), larger diameter 2-piece floating rotors, wheels to fit them, and tires to grip.
You'll be smiling every time you stop.

Anyway, hope you get yours sorted and get some benefit from them...
Good luck, and stay safe!
Thanks Joe! I really hope I didn't went wrong with the swap! By the way, I did also change the fluid to a DOT4 ATE Type 200 and my tyres are 235/60 R17 Continental PremiumContact produced at the end of 2017.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
Discussion Starter #291
I'd be willing to bet I've done more brake jobs in the last year than you've probably done in your life. Ceramic pads also make a very nice BLACK brake dust. Ceramic is used because the noise they make is above the frequency range that can be heard by humans.

Wait, I thought you already had evidence from somewhere that they are organic or semi-metallic. Now you need to go find your Honda Engineers? I've got two reputable sources, easily verified above by anyone who wants to click on a link. You've got just your opinion.
OK... You win.. want a cookie? :rolleyes:

Btw, I used to work with race teams too... doing brakes. But what do I know?
You say you have done more brakes... but whens the last time you upgraded brakes? LOL.
Not much from the sound of it...

For someone who is so against swapping to bigger brakes, you sure hang around this thread a lot...

Anyway, say what you want...
There's always internet folks talking about stuff they never tried or had experience with a bladder full of piss.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
I am impressed that people are keeping up with a thread that was started over 8 years ago and more impressed that joe422, the original op, still keeps up with it.

I have a 2007 Honda Odyssey EX and have been contemplating the pilot upgrade. I wouldn't say my brakes are bad, but could use improvement. I've had warped rotors a few times and this is part of the reason for researching the upgrade. I've reviewed most of the comments in this form and have been impressed with the pictures showing the difference between the two. It's impressive. What's even more impressive is the difference in the master cylinder between the two.

I've read posts claiming the awesome benefits of the upgrade as well as others that claim that it didn't turn out good. The biggest complaints being pedal feel and increased pedal distance. For those that did the upgrade, here are some variables that maybe can be chimed in on:

1. Were the fronts and rears both replaced?
2. Were SS lines used?
3. Was the master cylinder upgraded?
4. Were the tires upgraded to Pilot specs?
5. Or were Odyssey specs used?
7. What about tire pressure? Pilot or Odyssey specs?
8. Brake booster upgrade?

2010 Honda Odyssey - 235/60r17 with 33 psi front and 35 psi back. Curb weight 4475.
2010 Honda Pilot - 245/65R17 with 32 psi front and 32 psi back. Curb weight 4310.

There are so many variables and combinations that could be used. If both fronts and rears are replaced, I definitely think that a master cylinder upgrade would be needed and maybe tires too. Even if SS lines were used. If just the fronts were replaced and SS lines were used, would there be success without changing the master cylinder? Seems like the original op joe422 has had success with this configuration if I am not mistaken. And what about brake booster? Any considerations for that?

MrRangerZr1. I read your forum, "Forget about the pilot brake upgrade, do this instead." I was wondering if you changed the fronts and rears in your experiment. I couldn't find what you did or maybe I just missed it. I can see your recommendations being an alternative and successful solution as well.

Just something to think about. I wrote this for the future and others that may be considering this upgrade. Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Yeah that is nice that the thread did woke up for people that had recently entered the Ody club and have little knowledge on the model.
Personally I went with only the fronts, Goodridge SS lines, ATE DOT4 fresh fluid and I kept my depaxed wheels and tires at 235/60 R17.
The front setup is a pair of Wagner plane rotors, remanufactured Centric calipers and 2010 OEM Pilot pads.
At first it didn't felt like a great improvement over stock but a couple of days ago I performed a bedding procedure and I am gonna give it time to perform at its best.
I'm attaching pictures before and after the bedding thing...
155582
155583
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
I edited my post above because I forgot to consider the brake booster. Here are some pictures of the master cylinder and the brake booster. The first picture is the brake booster from a 2010 Honda Pilot and the second is from a 2007 Honda Odyssey. Brake boosters look similar, but I'm not sure of the specs. The master cylinder is definitely a major difference.

155588
155589



155586
155587
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
Discussion Starter #297
I was looking over some old pics and found this... I realized that I actually did upgrade the Pilot brakes right before I sold the Ody.
Threw on EBC Yellow pads, on Stoptech Cryo-treated rotors.

Stock master cyl, stock brake booster.
245/45 R19 summer tires on 19x8.5 BBS wheels.
SS braided lines. DOT4 synth fluid (Pentosin)
Stock rear brakes and pads/rotors.

Just leaving this here~
My last memory of braking on this Ody was great, and capable. I still remember test drivers and the buyer also, commenting that the brakes felt good~
155596
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
103 Posts
Joe, great thread. Didnt scroll through the entire thread but does it still boild down to this... or did something change throughout the 15 pages?


45018-SZA-A01 caliper R ('10 Honda Pilot caliper assembly with carrier)
45019-SZA-A00 caliper L
45022-SZA-A00 pads (oem pad set is nice because it comes with backing plates, anti squeal compound, and wire springs to spread the pads)
46472-568-000 x4 (crush washers for banjo bolts... brake line at the caliper)
-Your choice of front brake rotors from: '09+ Honda Pilot / '07+ Acura MDX / '11+ Acura ZDX (they're all the same)
-Brake fluid. 1 liter should be more than enough.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
264 Posts
Discussion Starter #299
Joe, great thread. Didnt scroll through the entire thread but does it still boild down to this... or did something change throughout the 15 pages?


45018-SZA-A01 caliper R ('10 Honda Pilot caliper assembly with carrier)
45019-SZA-A00 caliper L
45022-SZA-A00 pads (oem pad set is nice because it comes with backing plates, anti squeal compound, and wire springs to spread the pads)
46472-568-000 x4 (crush washers for banjo bolts... brake line at the caliper)
-Your choice of front brake rotors from: '09+ Honda Pilot / '07+ Acura MDX / '11+ Acura ZDX (they're all the same)
-Brake fluid. 1 liter should be more than enough.
Yes... that sums it up.
If you do go this route, just be aware that the initial pedal feel up top might feel slightly softer.
This is "normal" for this swap, and once you get used to it, you'll find that stopping is much stronger just below that pedal point.
If you don't think about it, you might not even notice it (pedal difference), but it does indeed stop better.
Oh, and more tire grip really compliment the setup too... softer or wider tire... etc.

Good luck!~
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1 Posts
Yeap.. I did the upgrade myself... I took a bit further with stainless steel braided brake lines (all 6), and DOT4 synthetic brake fluid /flush... but in reality, all you need are the following...

45018-SZA-A01 caliper R ('10 Honda Pilot caliper assembly with carrier)
45019-SZA-A00 caliper L
45022-SZA-A00 pads (oem pad set is nice because it comes with backing plates, anti squeal compound, and wire springs to spread the pads)
46472-568-000 x4 (crush washers for banjo bolts... brake line at the caliper)
-Your choice of front brake rotors from: '09+ Honda Pilot / '07+ Acura MDX / '11+ Acura ZDX (they're all the same)
-Brake fluid. 1 liter should be more than enough.

If you know how to change brake pads, rotors, and bleed brakes (fronts only)...this job will be a piece of cake.
What are the crush washers used for that are listed in the parts list for this swap?
 
281 - 300 of 305 Posts
Top