[nysbah]

Not inside the floor. Just down, after removal for more efficient storage . Like the middle seat...they are stuck at this awkward angle, and it seems like a perfect geometric fit, back to floor of seat would be possible...I cannot figure this out for the life of me!
thank you!

 

[Hodna]

Hi nysbah...welcome aboard!

The 2018 to 2020 model seats don't fold all the way down. I think they fixed that in the 2021 or it may have been the 2020. At any rate, it's one of the dumbest mistakes they made. Not only do the seats not fold flat like their predecessors, but the slide won't lock unless the seat is in the sitting position!! Lifting and moving them is like arguing with a 200 pound dew worm. Whoever approved that design needs their rear end kicked!!!

 

[nysbah]

Hi nysbah...welcome aboard!

The 2018 to 2020 model seats don't fold all the way down. I think they fixed that in the 2021 or it may have been the 2020. At any rate, it's one of the dumbest mistakes they made. Not only do the seats not fold flat like their predecessors, but the slide won't lock unless the seat is in the sitting position!! Lifting and moving them is like arguing with a 200 pound dew worm. Whoever approved that design needs their rear end kicked!!!

thank you!
odd design oversight for such a well thought out vehicle
they are certainly cumbersome.. had to look that up.. dew worm!

 

[Hodna]

Glad to help, nysbah.

There are several design flaws that have resulted from the design being moved from Japan to the U.S. If you have the time, read through some of the posts. Sadly, Honda no longer has the respect it did. The 5th generation Odyssey has many strengths but more issues than all the previous versions. It's a good car but not what it used to be .

 

[smufguy]

Start doing some bicep workouts and moving the second row in and out of the van would become a breeze.

Unfortunately, a vast majority of van buyers, look for second row comfort, rather than utility right after the driver's seat. Thus, you get the innovations such as magic seats and a very comfortable second row captain.
For the occasional need for utility after the driver's seat, I recommend either using a different vehicle, or getting used to taking the seats out of the van. Not the hardest, but surely awkward.

 

[Hodna]

Smufguy is correct. The seats are very heavy because they are probably the best second row seats on the market. For long trips, they're everywhere as nice to sit in as the two front seats. Now, where did I leave my Wheaties ?

 

[caleb.cissna]

Smufguy is correct. The seats are very heavy because they are probably the best second row seats on the market. For long trips, they're everywhere as nice to sit in as the two front seats. Now, where did I leave my Wheaties ?

I even didn’t mind sitting in the Second row center seat for a few hours between row car seats...not something you can say about a Sienna

 

[Raptor88]

thank you!
odd design oversight for such a well thought out vehicle
they are certainly cumbersome.. had to look that up.. dew worm!

Link to: How I remove the 2nd row seats from our 2019 Ody EX.

 

[DJVAN]

Smufguy is correct. The seats are very heavy because they are probably the best second row seats on the market. For long trips, they're everywhere as nice to sit in as the two front seats. Now, where did I leave my Wheaties ?

Didn't you mean Grape Nuts?

 

[Stan-qaz]

I could forgive the weight if the seat just locked in the folded position instead of fighting me every step of the removal or installation.

A cargo strap is going to be used for my next attempt.

 

[Hodna]

Good one DJVAN!

You're right, Stan-qaz. I have no idea what the engineer was thinking when he or she neglected to design the seats to fold all the way down. I suspect the design was only considered for when the seats were in the van, but then again, they are a pain in the butt for cargo when they don't fold flat.

 

[DJVAN]

I just cannot believe that Honduh engineers would have come up with the "new" second row seats without verifying what the prior 4th generation second row seats did (fold flat). I think that they was in such a hurry to get the 5th Generation ODY out the door and thought every one would be blinded about the "Magic" seat. Then they make the 2021 with second row fold down seats, due to so many complaints. I would like to compare the 2018 to the 2021 to see if they dramatically changed the seat, perhaps it would be simple as the seat center pivot rod with latch sprocket. I have copied from Honda website the 2018 and the 2021 drivers side center row seats. They look almost identical.

 

[Hodna]

Thanks for posting that diagram, DJVAN. The 2nd row seat design difference between the 4th and 5th gen is what happens when one design team (Japanese) relinquishes control of design to another design team (American) that lacks finesse. And please, I'm not knocking you Americans. There are some very fine products that come out of the U.S. that are simply stellar.

I submit that if the 5th gen had been designed by the Japanese, there would have been no stone left unturned. I've bought their cars (Honda and Toyota) for the better part of 45 years and it's been my experience that for every new release, they would always leave in the things that worked well. They would have not made this crucial error. This second row seat is great to sit in but other than that, it's a design disaster.

Honda U.S. needs to stop resting on the strengths of their Japanese engineering predecessors and start raising raising the bar by themselves before the other car makers crush them like cockroaches. Reading forums like this one would be a good place to begin. Do they even visit these sites or are they too busy counting profits?

 

[smufguy]

I just cannot believe that Honduh engineers would have come up with the "new" second row seats without verifying what the prior 4th generation second row seats did (fold flat). I think that they was in such a hurry to get the 5th Generation ODY out the door and thought every one would be blinded about the "Magic" seat. Then they make the 2021 with second row fold down seats, due to so many complaints. I would like to compare the 2018 to the 2021 to see if they dramatically changed the seat, perhaps it would be simple as the seat center pivot rod with latch sprocket. I have copied from Honda website the 2018 and the 2021 drivers side center row seats. They look almost identical.

Typically, the recline of seats is altered with changes to padding. Looking at the trim peaces and hardware between a 20109 and 2021 Elite, I found nothing different that made me go 'ah ha'. However, the seat pads carry different part number (for the same color code). I looked at the 2018 press release (Interior press kit), and could not find anything related to folding of the second row but the 2021 clearly specifies that 'second row seats on all Odyssey trims now fold nearly flat".

Thanks for posting that diagram, DJVAN. The 2nd row seat design difference between the 4th and 5th gen is what happens when one design team (Japanese) relinquishes control of design to another design team (American) that lacks finesse. And please, I'm not knocking you Americans. There are some very fine products that come out of the U.S. that are simply stellar.

Not sure where you get the source that the North American 4th generation Odyssey was designed by Japanese, but it is not true.
Source: 2011 Odyssey Press Kit >> 2011 Honda Odyssey Press Kit

Excerpt:
The 2011 Odyssey is truly an American-made vehicle, designed, engineered and assembled in the United States, and it represents the vast and ever-growing capabilities of Honda in North America. Virtually every aspect of the 2011 Odyssey has been envisioned, developed, tested and finalized by Honda associates throughout California, Ohio and Alabama. Made by Odyssey owners for Odyssey owners, many of its engineers and designers are also long-time Odyssey drivers themselves, bringing real-world family experience into the design of the vehicle.

Also, making a crude assessment that the Japanese designers and engineers are somehow superior than the rest of the world is an ill founded statement that bears no merit in 2020/2021.
I agree that the manufacturing disciplines were not as strict or governed here in the US, when compared to Japan in the 80s and 90s, but the American economy proved to be the single driver of the global economy that prompted foreign industries to establish themselves in the US and mergers and acquisition of foreign companies by US based ones have changed the age old notion of American manufacturing.

For example, the 2009 Honda Fit (2nd gen for the US) was designed and made in Japan and its fit and finish was subpar. It also was plagued with almost a dozen recalls (though a vast majority circled backed to the Takata debacle). The 2010 Ridgeline, that I drive, was designed and made here in the US and the fit and finish was far superior and have many innovations (2006 intro year) that set the pace in the automotive, as well as automotive manufacturing, industry. it goes on to say, it also suffered from the Takata debacle and rust issues ('06-'08) as that period they were made in Canada.

Point is, we dont want to generalize, but stay true to facts and debate on them. Also, we need to stay away from using terms and words that either incite a level or stereotype and/or create a biased and racist atmosphere or downright strike a cord of insensitiveness and rudeness. Today's world needs less of that and complaining about problems, but more of understanding and problem solving.