[2011.2017.odyssey]

you're coming out ahead if you can make it work with maxlife and lubeguard.

why I haven't gone the amsoil route yet.

too frruuugal.
😅

 

[CroMath]

I've had zero issues with OEM DW-1 combined with Lubegard Red. Shifts are authoritative yet smooth, no hunting for gears ever. Used ATF comes out nice and red.

 

[Ted]

The Aisin DW-1 at Rock is full synthetic.

 

[jnissen]

Agree to get a larger trans cooler. The stock one is barely capable of keeping up in just stop and go traffic without a trailer.

Also you need to keep an eye on trans temps. You may have hurt the torque converter or clutch packs. Fluid helps but if the damage is done then it’s not going to miraculously fix it.

I had a tube and fin type cooler on my 2011 for about a year. It was the type that attaches to the condenser out front. I was not impressed at all. I switched to a plate style with a thermostat valve and it’s great. It’s a huge cooler but if you monitor the trans temp you will likely see your OEM cooler is totally inadequate.

 

[rmyoder]

Like @Azdude I also found that DW1 breaks down quickly with towing. I then used Pennzoil Platinum LV for a few years and it seemed to be more durable. However I switched to Amalie Universal Synthetic after Pennzoil was no longer available locally and I think the shifts are even better. The Amalie has been in for over a year now and still good shifts. IMO synthetic is the only way to go for towing. Amsoil or Redline if you are feeling spendy, Maxlife, Pennzoil, Amalie, etc if you are not.

 

[Azdude]

I have read here that that towing requires using D4, makes sense that pulling a trailer up a hill in gears higher than 4 would overly stress transm and overtemp atm fluid.

I had it in 4th for a long slight climb. Most of the time everything was happy in 6th gear going slow and steady.

Sounds like there are several options between adding lubegard red to oem dw-1 I’m using now, going Aisn dw-1, or maxlife with lubegard red. I’ll probably start with adding lubegard since I have a bunch of oem dw-1 left.

the fluid never smells burnt but is a darker red when I change it, not bright.

well if I get a scanner and see crazy high temps than maybe I’ll look at going to a big cooler. I have yet to do the big pull straight up and down a few times to get to 7,000ft from essentially sea level-that ought to be eye o

 

[WiiMaster]

I've had zero issues with OEM DW-1 combined with Lubegard Red. Shifts are authoritative yet smooth, no hunting for gears ever. Used ATF comes out nice and red.

I agree. For what it's worth, I don't have a 4th gen and I don't tow, but I have been using Genuine Honda DW-1 the whole time with zero issues. And that's without Lubegard.

 

[kgardonia]

Just posting latest experience with Tranny fluid and I’ve been following the advice of changing the DW-1 transmission fluid every oil change and have been really happy with how it drives and knowing the van should last longer. Van has vcm, oem cooler and the tranny software update, 80k miles..

however, in anticipation of our first popup camping trip, I had changed it 2x before the oil change (with a 1 week interval). After coming back from that trip of driving a steady 65mph for about 200 miles total on flat terrain (an easy pull), with outside temps in 60s, the transmission is now balky at times in 1st two gears-which has usually been symptom of needing transmission fluid change. Was around 3,100 lbs towing including trailer, people,gear.

astonishing how fast the dw-1 fluid wears out but since this setup with the van works well with our young family, I’m ok to keep changing it. Especially since I discovered on my last change can do it with the van on the ground. Took about 15-20min to change it.

Tried maxlife fluid and it ran terribly in ours. Not aware of any cost effective, good fluids out there.

 

[kgardonia]

Where does this change trans fluid at every oil change advice come from? Put a Magnefine filter on it and run to factory recommended intervals. You are wasting time and $$$ with this process.

 

[jnissen]

It come from the fact that a 3X drain and fill at 30K is equivalent to 1 drain and fill about every 10K miles. I don’t like to do it that way but some guys do. The cost about the same in the long run.

 

[viper74656]

Where does this change trans fluid at every oil change advice come from? Put a Magnefine filter on it and run to factory recommended intervals. You are wasting time and $$$ with this process.

By the book calls for 1x drain and fill every 30k. That means a "full swap" (3x drain and fills complete) only every 90k miles. If you've looked at your transmission fluid that came out after 30k and felt comfortable keeping the rest of the fluid in there another 60k miles then you are braver than me!

DW-1s heat management is pathetic IMO. My DW-1 looked burnt enough at 30k (with no towing and only small town/suburban cruising) that I switched to Amsoil without looking back. Its not the particulates that kill you (good call on the Magnefine), it's the heat in the fluid that causes the problems.

 

[robertjmjrs]

i have the OEM transmission cooler.

My point bringing this up is that I’m following all of the advice on the forum and am finding needing to change transmission fluid even more than once an oil change...

I went all through this topic with my daughter when she added a towing package. We bought the largest transmission oil cooler we could find and installed it then did a couple of drain and fills though her oil didn’t look too bad. She rented a very large trailer, filled it , then packed the van full for a 4 state move over the Sierras and Rockies with zero problems. It was emphasized not to do that without more than just inside radiator cooling. If the Ody came with factory tow package I am thinking it should have addl external tranny cooler and a larger radiator, but I could be wrong. It’s been a year and she is still driving the van daily with no problems. She does drain and fills herself with motor oil changes.

 

[dbier]

I’ll see what he can do...that amsoil stuff is pretty spendy!

If you check with him I'd be interested to hear the price for Amsoil through him.

 

[riverman]

I see lots of discussion here that doesn't address the core problem. Burnt transmission fluid results from three possible causes - A) excessive heat generation, or B) restricted transmission fluid cooling flow, or possibly C) mechanical or electrical failure, like a failing transmission fluid pump. These problems will not be fixed with an aftermarket cooler, or by anything else like an additive, or a different fluid, or by disabling a VCM, etc.

Here's some basics: On the highway is where transmissions run coolest. Transmission fluid inlet temperature on the highway, 60 degree ambient, straight and level, 65 mph, 6th gear, shouldn't be over, say, 130 degrees, probably lower, no aftermarket cooler. At that temperature, transmission fluid will last almost forever. I know this because I have measured the transmission fluid temps over time.

Here's why: The transmission cooler is in the bottom of the radiator. The water temperature there is pretty cool on the highway. The engine coolant comes in at the top of the radiator and flows downward through the radiator. The highway ram airflow cools the coolant pretty quickly at the top of the radiator, so as coolant descends through the radiator core to the transmission cooler at the bottom of the radiator, it gools and approaches ambient temperature at the factory cooler. I would guess that, at the bottom of the radiator, the coolant might be 15-20 degrees over ambient on the highway.

Note: The water temperature gauge on your dash goes up above midpoint only if the engine is overheating. It remains constant as the water temp normally goes from, say, 170 degrees on the highway in cool weather to maybe 220 degrees or more as driving conditions change, as in hotter summer traffic. You probably know this already if you have used a Scangauge. Likewise, transmission fluid temperatures will vary similarly, because that fluid temperature is highly dependent on coolant temperature. A comment - I have a 2016 EX with a Scangauge II and I can't read transmission temp on my Scangauge II.

I have a large aftermarket Hayden 1789 cooler in series, downstream of the factory cooler. If the Hayden cooler was upstream, the net result will be similar, but low speed temps might be a bit higher. I put the cooler between the condenser and the radiator, to minimize the impact on the A/C system. I measure the temp out, the temp between the coolers, and the return temperature, as I drive, so I see lots of different temps based on conditions. Transmission oil temp across the Hayden cooler will drop about 20 degrees on the highway, but less than 10 degrees in slow traffic or with prolonged idling in gear. I see highway fluid return temps about 30 degrees or less over ambient. Go up a steep hill in 2nd or 3rd gear and these temps rise very quickly to quite hot, to over 210 degrees, where the added cooler does little to lower inlet fluid temp. The transmission temp rises quickly in slow traffic but takes longer to cool down when the speed goes back to highway speed. If you're stuck in sand, the rise is very rapid.

Now, about fluids: The Honda DW-1 conventional fluid takes temps up to about 220 degrees before toasting, which will greatly reduce the life of the fluid. Valvoline MaxLife synthetic should be good for at least 10 degrees more, and willl last longer, which is the best reason to use MaxLife fluid, with or without an added cooler.

> You were getting 20 mpg, which is maybe about right at highway speeds, but it seems a bit low to me, depending on trailer drag, altitude speed, etc. Go from 65 to 80, and the mileage will drop about 3 mpg with a loaded vehicle and some additional wind drag. You also mentioned an issue in the lower gears. That might be caused by an improper fluid level, either low or high.

If you are burning transmission fluid in hundreds of miles or even a thousand or two under this service, not anywhere 30k miles, something is very wrong. I do not believe an added cooler, any additive, another type of transmission fluid, or any other band-aid will solve this problem. An aftermarket cooler might lower your transmission fluid temp so it doesn't always burn, but that would be concealing the real problem. Honda says their design is adequate if you follow Honda's usage and maintenance requirements, and for people who don't come to this forum, it is. We add aftermarket coolers to preserve the transmission by protecting the fluid and extending its life, not to solve a problem that shouldn't be there to begin with. I have Valvoline MaxLife in my transmission and it's just fine - and so should your transmission be fine with that fluid - if the transmission is functioning properly.

The VCM system, also mentioned in this thread, enabled or disabled, isn't a part of this problem - it is a completely separate issue.

Now, solutions: First, are you aware what Honda says about checking the transmission fluid level in the six speed transmission? Honda says - warm up the transmission, shut off the engine, then 60-90 seconds later, read the dipstick. An incorrect fluid level could cause the problem you mentioned in the lower gears, and other transmission issues as well.

Another answer may lie in a restriction in a transmission line or the cooler itself - or a plugged transmission filter. This could explain the hot oil temps but doesn't explain an excessive heat generation issue, if that is really the case. I might check the flow by disconnecting the cooler from the transmission and visually checking the flow rate with water, then blowing and flushing these lines clear of moisture (alcohol or acetone is great for removing water, but it's flammable), then replacing the filter, which is in-line just before the cooled fluid re-enters the transmission.

Now, in the top two gears and maybe in 4th, there is a lockout clutch for the torque converter. If the torque converter isn't locked on the highway, your transmission fluid will get hot because the vehicle is driven through a slipping torque converter and that heats a lot of fluid pretty quickly, as is partially evidenced when you drive in slow or in stop-and-go traffic. About half the fluid is in the torque converter. Slip the torque converter for hours on end, and voila! Burnt fluid!

So - here's a question that I didn't see asked and you didn't answer. On the highway, when you move the gas pedal a bit, up and down, does the tach stay constant? If it does, the torque converter is locked in 5th and 6th gear, and no excess heat is being introduced into the transmission fluid in the torque converter. Remember, any transmission slippage anywhere generates heat, no matter how or where it occurs, and you can see that slippage on the tach when you move the throttle. No slippage, no excess heat is being generated, except possibly with a mechanical or electrical failure (like a failing oil pump?). Some slippage is normal in the lower gears, but not in the top gears. The factory cooler is designed to handle this.

When you solve this issue, would you post the solution?

That's about all I have, folks.

 

[2011.2017.odyssey]

I see lots of discussion here that doesn't address the core problem. Burnt transmission fluid results from three possible causes - A) excessive heat generation, or B) restricted transmission fluid cooling flow, or possibly C) mechanical or electrical failure, like a failing transmission fluid pump. These problems will not be fixed with an aftermarket cooler, or by anything else like an additive, or a different fluid, or by disabling a VCM, etc.

Here's some basics: On the highway is where transmissions run coolest. Transmission fluid inlet temperature on the highway, 60 degree ambient, straight and level, 65 mph, 6th gear, shouldn't be over, say, 130 degrees, probably lower, no aftermarket cooler. At that temperature, transmission fluid will last almost forever. I know this because I have measured the transmission fluid temps over time.

Here's why: The transmission cooler is in the bottom of the radiator. The water temperature there is pretty cool on the highway. The engine coolant comes in at the top of the radiator and flows downward through the radiator. The highway ram airflow cools the coolant pretty quickly at the top of the radiator, so as coolant descends through the radiator core to the transmission cooler at the bottom of the radiator, it gools and approaches ambient temperature at the factory cooler. I would guess that, at the bottom of the radiator, the coolant might be 15-20 degrees over ambient on the highway.

Note: The water temperature gauge on your dash goes up above midpoint only if the engine is overheating. It remains constant as the water temp normally goes from, say, 170 degrees on the highway in cool weather to maybe 220 degrees or more as driving conditions change, as in hotter summer traffic. You probably know this already if you have used a Scangauge. Likewise, transmission fluid temperatures will vary similarly, because that fluid temperature is highly dependent on coolant temperature. A comment - I have a 2016 EX with a Scangauge II and I can't read transmission temp on my Scangauge II.

I have a large aftermarket Hayden 1789 cooler in series, downstream of the factory cooler. If the Hayden cooler was upstream, the net result will be similar, but low speed temps might be a bit higher. I put the cooler between the condenser and the radiator, to minimize the impact on the A/C system. I measure the temp out, the temp between the coolers, and the return temperature, as I drive, so I see lots of different temps based on conditions. Transmission oil temp across the Hayden cooler will drop about 20 degrees on the highway, but less than 10 degrees in slow traffic or with prolonged idling in gear. I see highway fluid return temps about 30 degrees or less over ambient. Go up a steep hill in 2nd or 3rd gear and these temps rise very quickly to quite hot, to over 210 degrees, where the added cooler does little to lower inlet fluid temp. The transmission temp rises quickly in slow traffic but takes longer to cool down when the speed goes back to highway speed. If you're stuck in sand, the rise is very rapid.

Now, about fluids: The Honda DW-1 conventional fluid takes temps up to about 220 degrees before toasting, which will greatly reduce the life of the fluid. Valvoline MaxLife synthetic should be good for at least 10 degrees more, and willl last longer, which is the best reason to use MaxLife fluid, with or without an added cooler.



If you are burning transmission fluid in hundreds of miles or even a thousand or two under this service, not anywhere 30k miles, something is very wrong. I do not believe an added cooler, any additive, another type of transmission fluid, or any other band-aid will solve this problem. An aftermarket cooler might lower your transmission fluid temp so it doesn't always burn, but that would be concealing the real problem. Honda says their design is adequate if you follow Honda's usage and maintenance requirements, and for people who don't come to this forum, it is. We add aftermarket coolers to preserve the transmission by protecting the fluid and extending its life, not to solve a problem that shouldn't be there to begin with. I have Valvoline MaxLife in my transmission and it's just fine - and so should your transmission be fine with that fluid - if the transmission is functioning properly.

The VCM system, also mentioned in this thread, enabled or disabled, isn't a part of this problem - it is a completely separate issue.

Now, solutions: First, are you aware what Honda says about checking the transmission fluid level in the six speed transmission? Honda says - warm up the transmission, shut off the engine, then 60-90 seconds later, read the dipstick. An incorrect fluid level could cause the problem you mentioned in the lower gears, and other transmission issues as well.

Another answer may lie in a restriction in a transmission line or the cooler itself - or a plugged transmission filter. This could explain the hot oil temps but doesn't explain an excessive heat generation issue, if that is really the case. I might check the flow by disconnecting the cooler from the transmission and visually checking the flow rate with water, then blowing and flushing these lines clear of moisture (alcohol or acetone is great for removing water, but it's flammable), then replacing the filter, which is in-line just before the cooled fluid re-enters the transmission.

Now, in the top two gears and maybe in 4th, there is a lockout clutch for the torque converter. If the torque converter isn't locked on the highway, your transmission fluid will get hot because the vehicle is driven through a slipping torque converter and that heats a lot of fluid pretty quickly, as is partially evidenced when you drive in slow or in stop-and-go traffic. About half the fluid is in the torque converter. Slip the torque converter for hours on end, and voila! Burnt fluid!

So - here's a question that I didn't see asked and you didn't answer. On the highway, when you move the gas pedal a bit, up and down, does the tach stay constant? If it does, the torque converter is locked in 5th and 6th gear, and no excess heat is being introduced into the transmission fluid in the torque converter. Remember, any transmission slippage anywhere generates heat, no matter how or where it occurs, and you can see that slippage on the tach when you move the throttle. No slippage, no excess heat is being generated, except possibly with a mechanical or electrical failure (like a failing oil pump?). Some slippage is normal in the lower gears, but not in the top gears. The factory cooler is designed to handle this.

When you solve this issue, would you post the solution?

That's about all I have, folks.

I can't read transmission temp on my Scangauge II

you can if you're at version 4.5 and above.

» Honda-Acura

if you are pre 4.5 you can send it in and for 25 bux, and get it upgraded.
they change out the board.

» Upgrade

 

[2011.2017.odyssey]

I see lots of discussion here that doesn't address the core problem. Burnt transmission fluid results from three possible causes - A) excessive heat generation, or B) restricted transmission fluid cooling flow, or possibly C) mechanical or electrical failure, like a failing transmission fluid pump. These problems will not be fixed with an aftermarket cooler, or by anything else like an additive, or a different fluid, or by disabling a VCM, etc.

Here's some basics: On the highway is where transmissions run coolest. Transmission fluid inlet temperature on the highway, 60 degree ambient, straight and level, 65 mph, 6th gear, shouldn't be over, say, 130 degrees, probably lower, no aftermarket cooler. At that temperature, transmission fluid will last almost forever. I know this because I have measured the transmission fluid temps over time.

Here's why: The transmission cooler is in the bottom of the radiator. The water temperature there is pretty cool on the highway. The engine coolant comes in at the top of the radiator and flows downward through the radiator. The highway ram airflow cools the coolant pretty quickly at the top of the radiator, so as coolant descends through the radiator core to the transmission cooler at the bottom of the radiator, it gools and approaches ambient temperature at the factory cooler. I would guess that, at the bottom of the radiator, the coolant might be 15-20 degrees over ambient on the highway.

Note: The water temperature gauge on your dash goes up above midpoint only if the engine is overheating. It remains constant as the water temp normally goes from, say, 170 degrees on the highway in cool weather to maybe 220 degrees or more as driving conditions change, as in hotter summer traffic. You probably know this already if you have used a Scangauge. Likewise, transmission fluid temperatures will vary similarly, because that fluid temperature is highly dependent on coolant temperature. A comment - I have a 2016 EX with a Scangauge II and I can't read transmission temp on my Scangauge II.

I have a large aftermarket Hayden 1789 cooler in series, downstream of the factory cooler. If the Hayden cooler was upstream, the net result will be similar, but low speed temps might be a bit higher. I put the cooler between the condenser and the radiator, to minimize the impact on the A/C system. I measure the temp out, the temp between the coolers, and the return temperature, as I drive, so I see lots of different temps based on conditions. Transmission oil temp across the Hayden cooler will drop about 20 degrees on the highway, but less than 10 degrees in slow traffic or with prolonged idling in gear. I see highway fluid return temps about 30 degrees or less over ambient. Go up a steep hill in 2nd or 3rd gear and these temps rise very quickly to quite hot, to over 210 degrees, where the added cooler does little to lower inlet fluid temp. The transmission temp rises quickly in slow traffic but takes longer to cool down when the speed goes back to highway speed. If you're stuck in sand, the rise is very rapid.

Now, about fluids: The Honda DW-1 conventional fluid takes temps up to about 220 degrees before toasting, which will greatly reduce the life of the fluid. Valvoline MaxLife synthetic should be good for at least 10 degrees more, and willl last longer, which is the best reason to use MaxLife fluid, with or without an added cooler.



If you are burning transmission fluid in hundreds of miles or even a thousand or two under this service, not anywhere 30k miles, something is very wrong. I do not believe an added cooler, any additive, another type of transmission fluid, or any other band-aid will solve this problem. An aftermarket cooler might lower your transmission fluid temp so it doesn't always burn, but that would be concealing the real problem. Honda says their design is adequate if you follow Honda's usage and maintenance requirements, and for people who don't come to this forum, it is. We add aftermarket coolers to preserve the transmission by protecting the fluid and extending its life, not to solve a problem that shouldn't be there to begin with. I have Valvoline MaxLife in my transmission and it's just fine - and so should your transmission be fine with that fluid - if the transmission is functioning properly.

The VCM system, also mentioned in this thread, enabled or disabled, isn't a part of this problem - it is a completely separate issue.

Now, solutions: First, are you aware what Honda says about checking the transmission fluid level in the six speed transmission? Honda says - warm up the transmission, shut off the engine, then 60-90 seconds later, read the dipstick. An incorrect fluid level could cause the problem you mentioned in the lower gears, and other transmission issues as well.

Another answer may lie in a restriction in a transmission line or the cooler itself - or a plugged transmission filter. This could explain the hot oil temps but doesn't explain an excessive heat generation issue, if that is really the case. I might check the flow by disconnecting the cooler from the transmission and visually checking the flow rate with water, then blowing and flushing these lines clear of moisture (alcohol or acetone is great for removing water, but it's flammable), then replacing the filter, which is in-line just before the cooled fluid re-enters the transmission.

Now, in the top two gears and maybe in 4th, there is a lockout clutch for the torque converter. If the torque converter isn't locked on the highway, your transmission fluid will get hot because the vehicle is driven through a slipping torque converter and that heats a lot of fluid pretty quickly, as is partially evidenced when you drive in slow or in stop-and-go traffic. About half the fluid is in the torque converter. Slip the torque converter for hours on end, and voila! Burnt fluid!

So - here's a question that I didn't see asked and you didn't answer. On the highway, when you move the gas pedal a bit, up and down, does the tach stay constant? If it does, the torque converter is locked in 5th and 6th gear, and no excess heat is being introduced into the transmission fluid in the torque converter. Remember, any transmission slippage anywhere generates heat, no matter how or where it occurs, and you can see that slippage on the tach when you move the throttle. No slippage, no excess heat is being generated, except possibly with a mechanical or electrical failure (like a failing oil pump?). Some slippage is normal in the lower gears, but not in the top gears. The factory cooler is designed to handle this.

When you solve this issue, would you post the solution?

That's about all I have, folks.

My guess based on anecdotal scangauge data with my 6 speed, and the feedback from others here, is not dropping it to D4 when the vehicle is under load.
ATF temps are higher during lock-up and while under load.

 

[AndrewS816]

you can if you're at version 4.5 and above.

» Honda-Acura

if you are pre 4.5 you can send it in and for 25 bux, and get it upgraded.
they change out the board.

» Upgrade

Not sure what version of SGII I have, but we have TFT (Trans Fluid Temp) as one of the options. '16 EXL w 56k now, no towing in our household, just kid/gear hauling duties. I have a TruCool 4454 and a Long Manufacturing Thermostatic By-Pass installed. During the winter I have to completely cover the Trans Cooler as even with the By-Pass the fluid temperatures barely get to 130-140 F degrees "according to the ScanGuage." I remain somewhat skeptical of the SGII and the accuracy of it's readings, but it certainly shows a trend. With my cooling setup the transmission has never shown 190F during the hottest days of Summer and routinely runs around 150-170 F degrees. I have a Magnefine filter in-line as well.

I too change the trans fluid more frequently. Why, I can feel it in the shifting when I do; plain and simple. The van is happier with a 1x swap about every 10k miles, I get to take a look at the drain plug for build-up, and it all averages out. It's easy to do and the van shifts better, done deal.

 

[phattyduck]

Where does this change trans fluid at every oil change advice come from? Put a Magnefine filter on it and run to factory recommended intervals. You are wasting time and $$$ with this process.

Every oil change is over the top. But many of us on here have had torque converter judder or other shifting issues starting at much shorter intervals than 30k. We got our van used at 38k miles, and it was showing some judder, even though it had been serviced at 30k miles. Those issues are highly dependent on driving conditions, so it is hard to compare over the internet.

I'm going to over do the changes a bit, with 5k oil changes and 10k trans fluid changes (single drain/fill) from here on out. More than likely 7.5k oil changes and 15k trans fluid changes will be just fine now that the fluid is in good shape...

-Charlie

 

[Azdude]

First, are you aware what Honda says about checking the transmission fluid level in the six speed transmission? Honda says - warm up the transmission, shut off the engine, then 60-90 seconds later, read the dipstick.

i am aware of checking that fluid level but will reconfirm. It was at right level
Last change so I just put the same amount in.

On the highway, when you move the gas pedal a bit, up and down, does the tach stay constant?

I’m pretty sure the tach stayed constant in those gears. Will be towingagain in a couple days and can double check.

 

[jnissen]

Dealers often do the full 3X drain and fill. I’d never trust a single drain and fill every 30K. Your asking for trouble.

Yes it “wastes fluid” but actually it’s mixing with the old dirty stuff to allow it to be drained. Only ~35% of the fluid is actually removed when you drop the drain plug. If you want to continue to drive on that stale old crap then don’t complain when the transmission slips and dies.