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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
My 2007 EX-L with 60,000 miles on it just threw on the CEL yesterday.

I have an OBD II reader that I have used on previous Toyotas without any trouble, but when I hook it up to the Ody, I get a can not communicate error.

I went to AutoZone last night and borrowed their reader, got the same result. Unable to communicate.

The guy in AutoZone said I must have a blown fuse somewhere, but had no idea which fuse. The Ody has 4 fuse boxes, I took a quick look, but didn't see anything (I did not inspect each individual fuse) I had a hard time figuring out which fuse I should look at.

I pulled the battery cable, let it sit for a few, turn the ignition to on to make sure all power was drained. Connected the battery back up and started the engine. No light.

My wife drove the van about 3 miles and she said the light came back on. I am at work and won't be able to try and connect the ODB reader back up until, but wanted to know if anyone here had any thoughts??

I have never seen an ODB not read. The car just passed inspection in January, and usually they hook up to the ODB reader for emissions testing, so I am going to assume it worked for them.


Edited to add - Does anyone know a reader that 100% for sure works with the 2007 EX-L Ody? (something I could buy from amazon maybe at a reasonable price) I am thinking the ODY maybe has special code reading needs?
 

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Is your reader compatable with CAN protocol? I don't know for sure if the 2007 was changed to CAN but everything 2008 on has to be CAN. This goes for the Autozone tester you used.There is no fuse on the datalink. It goes in the PCM.
Look closely at the connector for bent or pushed back pins.
 

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For unusually problem like this (Communication Error), I'd suggest that you go to the dealer and ask to speak to the most experienced technician and ask for advice.

These guys have probably seen this issue before.
 

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There is a fuse for the Data Link Connector on my 2001.

Just for kicks, can you check the Fuse #8 (15A) for the PGM-FI in the Under-Hood Fuse Box in your 2007 to see if it is OK?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I did check fuse 8 last night, that was one of the 3 I checked and it was fine.

My dealer is not friendly or helpful by design, no way to get help there unless I put out $$$$

This is the reader AutoZone had

Amazon.com: Actron CP9175 AutoScanner Diagnostic Code Scanner with Freeze Frame Data for OBDII Vehicles: Automotive

It does not appear to be CAN

My reader is a computer link, I need to interface it to a laptop to get anything out of it. It is at least 5 years old and may not be CAN (I really have no way to check, it is more of a generic circuit board type device than a neat retail kit)

I just ordered an Ultragauge

UltraGauge Automotive Information Center and OBDII Scan Tool

I have been wanting one for a while anyway, so good excuse to buy it. It claims the only known incompatibility for 2007 model year is some Ford.

I am going to borrow another ODB reader from a friend this weekend (his is a MAC tools).

I hope the problem is just my reader, I assumed Autozone would loan out a more current model, but looking at the model they did loan, it looks old.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
A little more info

What I have is an ElmScan ISO (older serial model) and it states that it supports protocols

ISO9141
and
ISO14230

Does anyone know for sure that the 2007 Ody is CAN?
 

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reader

i would...for lack of a solution...go to an independent mechanic vs. honda dealer...and let them run it...

of course, i'm assuming you've got an ind.mech. you've been using for some time and have built up a trust with...otherwise, i'd ask around with friends to see who they suggest (i did this recently via facebook - because i like & trust the guy i use - been going to him for over 12 years, but he's not particularly convenient to the part of town we live in and i was looking for something closer to home, especially for the easy, silly oil change stuff...actually, this would give me an additional option going forward if the guy i usually use is busy/slammed with work - it would also give me a better idea of an accurate repair estimate)

in any case, if a friend can recommend someone they're using regularly, then i'm inclined to think that the mechanic would be happy to connect a code reader at no charge assuming they might get some business out of it if there is in fact repair work to be performed...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I received my Ultragauge today and I am still no closer to a resolution LOL

I connected it to the ODB port, put the key in the 'ON' position and the Ultragauge came on and said scanning.

It said that it found 29bit CAN protocol (good news here is now I know what protocol the Ody uses and my port is live)

Then it wanted to know my gas tank size and engine size, it whirred around for a while and then came up to a gauge screen.

I went to the CEL section of the Ultragauge and it said the light was off, I looked at the dash and sure enough the light was off, but I never set it to off.

I hit the check codes section and it said there were none. I hit the pending codes and it said there were none.

I started the engine and no light

We will see what happens after my wife drives it a little tomorrow (I didn't feel like taking it out tonight), but it looks like just connecting the Ultragauge turned off the light (very odd)


When I pulled the battery cable several days ago, the light came back on in 3 miles, so I am thinking it will come back on and hopefully the Ultragauge will actually be able to retrieve it.

Just posting an Update.
 

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battery

are your battery terminals, posts and cables clean (i.e. not corroding)???

we have a '06 touring r+n-
-a few months ago, when the van was in for service, the dealer recommended cleaning the battery terminals/posts connections...
-i told him, no big deal, i usually do that my self, having wire brushes, etc. at home
-i forgot to do it after getting the van home and so it went
now, all of the following seems to make sense:
-we had a period of time where the transmitter on the key fob didn't seem to be working so well, we were getting the CEL, then after service it went off, then came back on, then off again...
-eventually my wife (she usually drives the van) mentioned that the power must have somehow been lost because she needed to enter the security code for the gps
-well, i checked the battery, and sure enough, it was corroded over at the positive (+) terminal...i proceeded to disconnect, clean off (wire brished the poop out of it)...still, we continued to have what i now perceive as a weak signal from the transmitter (also, the horn beeping when locked was quieter than normal), but it must have been the battery (the battery was a costco "kirkland" battery that was originally installed march 18, 2010 - so just under a year old installed; they now no longer carry the kirkland label and are simply labeled as interstate batteries, although the warranty and CCA's have been reduced somewhat - still says "made in mexico)...in any case, within a 1-week time frame, there were three (3) times we needed a jump start, where the battery wouldn't turn over (this was AFTER cleaning the terminals/posts - i never did clean the actual cables by putting them in a baking soda/water solution)
-finally went down to our independent mechanic (of over 12 years) he couldn't figure it out

MORE ON THIS LATER...I'M AT WORK

IN ANY CASE, FINAL SOLUTION...
-clipped existing Honda/factory battery connectors
-peeled back insulating vinyl on battery cables & soaked the cables for a bit in the baking soda/water solution...it turned a pretty nice shade of blue
-re-installed with "old school" type battery cable terminals

PROBLEM SOLVED! (so far...)
-horn beeps louder when locking
-transmitter works over longer distance
-no more CEL (for now)

i hope this helps...when i first read the post, i automatically assumed terminals/posts were cleaned...it is now my belief that even though the posts/connections were clean, enough crud had gotten into the copper of the cables that it still did not resolve the issue...and i fully believe that this is what caused most of our other issues (CEL, etc.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
When I pulled the battery cable off the terminal, there did not appear to be any visible corrosion on either terminal. The connection to the battery seems solid. My battery is not the original, it was installed Oct 2009 and it is a Honda replacement battery (I know, it will be dead by October 2011 :) )

It's a good thought to check it though. I am hoping the CEL is back when I get home tonight and can try the Ultragauge again. I am really curious to see what this code is at this point.
 

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codes

we originally received a code (P0420) showing a bad CATALYTIC...Honda dealer's diagnosis, of course, was, REPLACE IT...

i'm too damn cheap and for my money, the van's only 5 years old and too new to have such a problem...

in any case, had other work done while we declined the catalytic...worst case, if the CEL stayed on, i'd at least get a 3rd opinion (already had another Honda dealer in town tell us the same thing)...actually, we did get a 3rd opinion...took it to an independent muffler shop while the CEL was on (after the 1st Honda dealer, but before the 2nd honda dealer..my finally opinion would be to go to our independent mechanic)...the muffler shop also got the catalytic reading...van was running rough at times, so catalytic was definitely suspect...

after 2nd Honda dealer confirmed CAT code, we let them do other warranty work on the van...when we got the van back, the CEL was OFF...wasn't running rough, either...

finally, when CEL back came ON, then OFF, took it to our independent guy...this would be the 4th opinion...

you know the rest of the story, as noted in my previous posts here...however, prior to getting to our independent guy, i ran the OBD on the van...

well, the van did not turn over at all, just a 'click'...after i had the key in the ON position to run the OBD...and what error codes showed up???
-cylinder 1 misfire...
-cylinder 2 misfire...
-cylinder 3 misfire...
-cylinder 4 misfire...
-cylinder 5 misfire...
-cylinder 6 misfire...

no crap genius, it didn't start!!! honestly, i expected the CAT code to come up again...and, our independent guy's code reader showed a history of the cylinder misfires...so, he checked the plugs...he did say they were getting crappy, however, i asked him not to replace yet at this time...

AGAIN, MORE LATER...
 

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Pretty much any vehicle i've touched from 2005 on has gone OBDII with CAN (controller area network). You need a reader that says "CAN compliant". I haven't poked around for a schematic, but that would be highly unusual for a DLC to not be fused. On many vehicles the hot pin on the data link connector is on the same circuit as the cig lighter.

Joel
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Yeah I got a code, now to see what I can do about it

OBD II Fault Code

* OBD II P0154

Fault Code Definition
Code P0154 is triggered when the Oxygen Sensor signal that is sent to the Power Train Control Module remains at or near the .450 set voltage point.

Symptoms

* Check Engine Light will illuminate
* In many cases, no abnormal symptoms may be noticed
* In some cases, the engine may hesitate during acceleration
* Poor fuel economy

Common Problems That Trigger the P0154 Code

* Defective Oxygen Sensor
* Faulty Oxygen Sensor wiring or connections
* Missing Oxygen Sensor Heater Circuit Power Voltage

Common Misdiagnoses

* Oxygen Sensor is replaced when the real problem is a vacuum leak
* Oxygen Sensor is replaced when real problem is a poor connection
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
As best I can tell, this is the front upstream pre manifold 5 wire O2 sensor

BOSCH Part # 13954 that I can find for about $77

anyone think I am wrong?
 

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Yep, the actual code is: Oxygen Sensor Circuit No Activity Detected (Bank 2, Sensor 1). It could be a cut wire or corroded connector. Good thing is, it's a straight forward code and an actual sensor issue as opposed to something upstream like it typically is.

I'd try for a Denso O2 sensor (or what ever came OEM) and keep Bosch as a last resort.

Joel
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I know Bosch spark plugs suck ass, but Bosch invented the O2 sensor and pretty much every other maker is based on their technology

Are you telling me to stay away from Bosch specifically because you know their O2 sensors are problematic? or is it an assumption based on their horrible spark plug product?

I am not seeing how a Denso or an NGK is worth double the money in the case of an O2 sensor (for the spark plugs however, it is a no brainer NGK is worth double)



I did just check the connector and the wires, everything looks good as far as the eye can see.
 

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I can also attest that Bosch spark plugs can cause issues. I've been down that road. My major gripe w/ their O2 sensors is I've been in two situations now where they were supposedly a direct fit, but the connectors were just different enough that they weren't plug-n-play. With my climate, splicing isn't worth it unless it's one of those water proof splice kit deals.

If the Bosch has proven to work well in this application (I don't know off hand that it is), I'd go that route too if it's the cheapest.

Joel
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks for the follow-up, I thought maybe you put a bosch in your ody and had a specfic issue.

I did find a report of one guy (not with an Ody) claiming the head on the Bosch sensor didn't protrude far enough into the exhaust to work correctly (when compared to the NGK/NTK or Denso) but who knows, he may have had the wrong part. I can't find any overwhelming evidence the sensor will be problematic in an Ody.


If the Denso is OEM, mine failed at 60k miles and that isn't very impressive. For $78 shipped, I have the bosch on the way. If it fails in 60K, I am ahead of the game :)

With regard to connectors being wrong, I can work with that. It is just cleaner in my opinion to not go the cut and solder route unless forced.

The part should be here next week and I will install is ASAP and report back. With all that has happened, I am confident replacing the O2 is the way to go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
So how likely it is that I have both sensors 1's going bad?

I just checked the codes again this morning BEFORE I touched anything and I had a P0134 in there as well as the original code of P0154

P0134 = Bank 1 Sensor 1 failure (rear)
P0154 = Bank 2 sensor 1 failure (front)

I replaced Bank 2 Sensor 1 today, and reset the light via the ultragauge. The P0154 light went away, I took it for a 20 minute or so drive and it seemed fine. No more CEL

The ultragauge has a feature it calls PENDING CODES - I understand what ultragauge thinks that means, it is predicting a failure before the actual CEL comes on. The pending code is P0134, which is Bank 1 Sensor 1.

I am going to wait until this pending code actually becomes a real code before I replace the sensor, but I am wondering if there isn't something strange going on. I can't see how the two sensors could affect each other (meaning a failure on one causing a failure on the other) because they are completely separate.

The bank 2 sensor 1 was easy as pie to replace, it took me 10 minutes, the Bank 1 Sensor 1 in the rear looks far more challenging. I can not actually see it from the top of the engine (yes I took the plastic trim pieces off).

It does look possible to change this one blind though (I have an O2 sensor socket), I just worry about reconnecting the wiring harness. I can't see it at all from the top (didn't look from any other angle yet)

What are the odds both sensors go at 60k miles?

BTW - the one I removed was an NTK brand, not impressed with the 60k miles service life. We will see how long the Bosch goes, if it fails early, then Denso here I come :)


Any tips on getting Bank 1 Sensor 1 out? Top rear location near the firewall
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
One more question if anyone happens to know, are these two sensors the same physical part?

P0134 = Bank 1 Sensor 1 failure (rear)
P0154 = Bank 2 sensor 1 failure (front)

When I look at the OEM part finders, I think it was Denso that listed the same part number for each of these sensors (I know the sensor part is the same, I am worried about the electrical connector end)

But other companies like Bosch list a separate part number for each of the sensors.

Napa lists one number and states quantity (2) per vehicle.

This leads me to believe these might be the same sensor and Bosch just assigned a separate part number to avoid confusion.

The reason I care is the Bosch sensor for code P0134 seems to be "special Order" everywhere with a reasonable price and the Bosch sensor for code P0154 seems to be readily available. Just trying to save myself a couple weeks of order time if they are really the same sensor (have the same connector on the end) and are 100% interchangeable
 
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