[oldskewel]

Just thought of this ...

"timing belt inspection" - there really is no such thing. Usually when you replace the belt it looks almost as good as new. So inspecting would mean you check the timing marks (but a code would be thrown if it was out of time), maybe looking to see if the tensioner is leaking oil or making a little noise, and making sure there were not any engine oil leaks that could be contaminating the belt.

So here's my guess ... the PO took the car into a shop for a TB job, and they could not get the bolt off, so told the PO that they just inspected it and it was good to go.

 

[oldskewel]

Another thought on the side-effects of the torching ...

The crank pulley (a.k.a. "harmonic balancer") is basically an inner pulley and an outer pulley with a thin sandwich of rubber at the interface. When you remove it, you'll be able to see more carefully.

I can see how the extreme heat may have cooked the rubber a little. Not enough to set it on fire now, but maybe causing premature failure several years down the road. So at this point, just keep in mind that that rare failure could be less rare for you.

There's actually a story about that interface failing in this month's RockAuto newsletter: RockAuto April Newsletter | Early Edition

 

[jnissen]

I’ve never had the starter bump not work. The trick is to allow it some rotation prior to hitting the undercarriage to stop the rotation. All that momentum will break it free guaranteed. Put a piece of tape inside socket so it’s a firm press fit on bolt. That keeps it from falling off on the starter bump.

 

[Mo_Van]

Thanks, I might just replace the seals regardless...fraction of cost compared to what it could be. The amount of impact & duration that the shop did to the bolt kinda made me cringe, too.

In the end, best $40 I could spend on car repair for now.

 

[Mo_Van]

I’ve never had the starter bump not work. The trick is to allow it some rotation prior to hitting the undercarriage to stop the rotation. All that momentum will break it free guaranteed. Put a piece of tape inside socket so it’s a firm press fit on bolt. That keeps it from falling off on the starter bump.

I tried both against the frame first and the short sprint into the frame. 😅 Was nervous as heck. After about 3rd crank, I was like f this and cranked it four more times.

Now just waiting for replacement parts to come in before I tackle this again.

Good call on the pulley rubber, @oldskewel. Putting that in the parts order. Not because of heat necessarily, but again, it's almost 10yr old car with 158k and zero signs of previous work on timing belt. I feel like the abuse it took should deserve some new parts.

It looks like I might need to order an entire harmonic balancer rather than being able to order just the rubber ring. Sort of makes sense... But is this true?

 

[Mo_Van]

Dang phone... Double post

 

[oldskewel]

I tried both against the frame first and the short sprint into the frame. 😅 Was nervous as heck. After about 3rd crank, I was like f this and cranked it four more times.

Now just waiting for replacement parts to come in before I tackle this again.

Good call on the pulley rubber, @oldskewel. Putting that in the parts order. Not because of heat necessarily, but again, it's almost 10yr old car with 158k and zero signs of previous work on timing belt. I feel like the abuse it took should deserve some new parts.

It looks like I might need to order an entire harmonic balancer rather than being able to order just the rubber ring. Sort of makes sense... But is this true?

Yes, it is one part. All bonded together. Practically solid, except it has enough compliance to slightly dampen the cylinder compression torques from getting through to everything else driven by the belt.

Not cheap either, as you have probably found. I would not replace it if I were in your situation. But as I said, I'd just keep in mind that it might be a weakened part.

Understand on the cringing about the abuse they were giving to your car just to get the bolt off. At least you should have some confidence that they had been doing that sort of stuff enough that they knew where the limits were.

For the actual torquing of the bolt, did they use an impact wrench or giant wrench? One of the nice things about an impact is that it is a pure torque. When using a giant lever, braced with something, like that 8" section you used, you need to be aware of the force resulting from that counteracting lever. And if that force is not countered (sounds like that jack you used for the pivot support probably did that job perfectly), then it can result in a big force on the bolt+pulley, perhaps tweaking the pulley. (this concept applies for anything - not specific to the crank bolt)

 

[rmyoder]

It looks like I might need to order an entire harmonic balancer rather than being able to order just the rubber ring. Sort of makes sense... But is this true?

I have not heard of rubber failure in the Honda balancer but this is fairly common in GM units. In your case it may be more likely with the heat. Regardless, rubber failure is not catastrophic but causes the engine to vibrate at idle (I experienced this in my Cad). A new balancer solves the problem...I think it is prudent to replace it during the TB job. Otherwise you may have to take that GD bolt out again!

 

[Ted]

Thanks for the advice. I currently don't have access to a more powerful impact. Tried the cheap HF electric impact. Then the Milwaukee M18 1/2". I really thought the Lisle would do it.

I have a Milwaukee M18 that is scary to use. It is the fuel version. Is it yours? Might the torque be toned down with precision settings?

I think that thing could spin the van off the bolt. I can't believe it won't remove the bolt by itself. In conjunction with the Lisle socket, it has to work. Any chance you're using extensions that are "wasting" the torque, rather than delivering it?

 

[Hoopster9999]

Torque is good but you gotta put the heat to it to convince the locktite to give it up.... propane isn't enough I dont think. MAP GAS torch at HD or Lowes is an investment I think the REAPIR GEEK on YouTube is a good example of really putting the crap to it... also getting it up in the air allows you to crank it more...but HEAT the crap out of it right in the center of the nut.... that seemed to convince it to work.

 

[Dungee]

Hi everyone,
I'm new to this forum. I recently bought a 2012 EX-L w/152k miles. It was in really good condition and ran smoothly. First thing that went on was the VCM Muzzler. Side mount is pretty destroyed, so that needs replaced.

Anyways, went to do timing belt change because I'm pretty certain nothing was done even though there was 'timing belt inspection' at 150k.

I lubed this up for the past three days, heated it up several occasions, broke a breaker bar, tried the impact w/Lisle socket, tried to hold it with the pulley holder tool and use a cheater bar, and tonight, the starter bumps. Yup was desperate that I bumped a few times. At this point, I'm done.

The problem now that I face is that shops around me don't want to use the Aisin kit that I bought although they're quoting me with the exact kit with same THK-002 part number. One shop tried to charge me $469 for the kit. All I asked was to loosen the bolt for $100. They kept saying warranty for the parts... I keep telling them that i don't need one. I only got this car because it's better than a car payment. And it's perfectly fine other than the TB tensioner and maybe the ticking time belt.

Any tips on getting mechanics to just loosen the bolt for me? I thought $100 was more than reasonable but maybe not...COVID closed down the DIY shop near me that has mechanics and professional tools for i had the same issue on an 2008 messed with it for days 2ft breaker bar 1/2" drive swivel head from harbor feight got a 6ft chain link metal fence post slide over the breaker bar thought i broke something but it had finally broke the lock tight lose.
There is a special socket I will buy if I ever do another w

 

[Dandanthe M]

Hi everyone,
I'm new to this forum. I recently bought a 2012 EX-L w/152k miles. It was in really good condition and ran smoothly. First thing that went on was the VCM Muzzler. Side mount is pretty destroyed, so that needs replaced.

Anyways, went to do timing belt change because I'm pretty certain nothing was done even though there was 'timing belt inspection' at 150k.

I lubed this up for the past three days, heated it up several occasions, broke a breaker bar, tried the impact w/Lisle socket, tried to hold it with the pulley holder tool and use a cheater bar, and tonight, the starter bumps. Yup was desperate that I bumped a few times. At this point, I'm done.

The problem now that I face is that shops around me don't want to use the Aisin kit that I bought although they're quoting me with the exact kit with same THK-002 part number. One shop tried to charge me $469 for the kit. All I asked was to loosen the bolt for $100. They kept saying warranty for the parts... I keep telling them that i don't need one. I only got this car because it's better than a car payment. And it's perfectly fine other than the TB tensioner and maybe the ticking time belt.

Any tips on getting mechanics to just loosen the bolt for me? I thought $100 was more than reasonable but maybe not...COVID closed down the DIY shop near me that has mechanics and professional tools for now...

Are you sure that bolt is a right hand type?

 

[uscourt3000]

Hi everyone,
I'm new to this forum. I recently bought a 2012 EX-L w/152k miles. It was in really good condition and ran smoothly. First thing that went on was the VCM Muzzler. Side mount is pretty destroyed, so that needs replaced.

Anyways, went to do timing belt change because I'm pretty certain nothing was done even though there was 'timing belt inspection' at 150k.

I lubed this up for the past three days, heated it up several occasions, broke a breaker bar, tried the impact w/Lisle socket, tried to hold it with the pulley holder tool and use a cheater bar, and tonight, the starter bumps. Yup was desperate that I bumped a few times. At this point, I'm done.

The problem now that I face is that shops around me don't want to use the Aisin kit that I bought although they're quoting me with the exact kit with same THK-002 part number. One shop tried to charge me $469 for the kit. All I asked was to loosen the bolt for $100. They kept saying warranty for the parts... I keep telling them that i don't need one. I only got this car because it's better than a car payment. And it's perfectly fine other than the TB tensioner and maybe the ticking time belt.

Any tips on getting mechanics to just loosen the bolt for me? I thought $100 was more than reasonable but maybe not...COVID closed down the DIY shop near me that has mechanics and professional tools for now...

There are some great local mechanics, and the one near me is superb. He has a lot of customers for life.

A few years ago I had successfully done my timing belt on my 2000 Accord, and I‘d loosened the crankshaft bolt using a “persuader” to exert adequate torque. I used the weight of the car, gradually lowering it onto the lever until the bolt turned.

However, when I began the same on my 2000 Odyssey, I suddenly realized (with the even greater weight) I could easily damage the bolt or ruin the engine. So I drove down to this local auto shop to get it unscrewed with an air gun.

As I arrived, I told the guy, “I’ll give you $40, just to loosen the crankshaft bolt!”
He answered with a grin, “Ah... timing belt??”
I had everything ready, impact socket at the ready, all the guy had to do was attach his air gun and shift the bolt.

Well, it was really tight, but it worked, but then the guy refused to take my $40. So I looked in the Ody and came back with a bottle of J&B Whiskey, saying “how about this?” And his response was “oh, sure, I’ll take that!”

Happy shop. Happy customer. And ever since, I tell everyone what a great auto shop that is!

 

[chanak]

Hi everyone,
I'm new to this forum. I recently bought a 2012 EX-L w/152k miles. It was in really good condition and ran smoothly. First thing that went on was the VCM Muzzler. Side mount is pretty destroyed, so that needs replaced.

Anyways, went to do timing belt change because I'm pretty certain nothing was done even though there was 'timing belt inspection' at 150k.

I lubed this up for the past three days, heated it up several occasions, broke a breaker bar, tried the impact w/Lisle socket, tried to hold it with the pulley holder tool and use a cheater bar, and tonight, the starter bumps. Yup was desperate that I bumped a few times. At this point, I'm done.

The problem now that I face is that shops around me don't want to use the Aisin kit that I bought although they're quoting me with the exact kit with same THK-002 part number. One shop tried to charge me $469 for the kit. All I asked was to loosen the bolt for $100. They kept saying warranty for the parts... I keep telling them that i don't need one. I only got this car because it's better than a car payment. And it's perfectly fine other than the TB tensioner and maybe the ticking time belt.

Any tips on getting mechanics to just loosen the bolt for me? I thought $100 was more than reasonable but maybe not...COVID closed down the DIY shop near me that has mechanics and professional tools for now...

Do you know you need a special tool to remove the Crank Pulley Bolt on Honda. Google it. You cannot use a impact socket.

 

[Bassman73]

I'm nearby in Laurel, MD. I know you found someone but Tommy at Junction Automotive in Annapolis Junction is outstanding. Only guy on Earth I trust with my 73 Pontiac and my other four vehicles.

 

[jra]

Hi everyone,
I'm new to this forum. I recently bought a 2012 EX-L w/152k miles. It was in really good condition and ran smoothly. First thing that went on was the VCM Muzzler. Side mount is pretty destroyed, so that needs replaced.

Anyways, went to do timing belt change because I'm pretty certain nothing was done even though there was 'timing belt inspection' at 150k.

I lubed this up for the past three days, heated it up several occasions, broke a breaker bar, tried the impact w/Lisle socket, tried to hold it with the pulley holder tool and use a cheater bar, and tonight, the starter bumps. Yup was desperate that I bumped a few times. At this point, I'm done.

The problem now that I face is that shops around me don't want to use the Aisin kit that I bought although they're quoting me with the exact kit with same THK-002 part number. One shop tried to charge me $469 for the kit. All I asked was to loosen the bolt for $100. They kept saying warranty for the parts... I keep telling them that i don't need one. I only got this car because it's better than a car payment. And it's perfectly fine other than the TB tensioner and maybe the ticking time belt.

Any tips on getting mechanics to just loosen the bolt for me? I thought $100 was more than reasonable but maybe not...COVID closed down the DIY shop near me that has mechanics and professional tools for now...

Hi here's how I did mine. Right wheel off, use all Impact tools, 1/2 inch extensions, 20'' plus ? (I forget) so that you're just
past the body of the car. Then use a jack stand with it's V to hold the end of the last extension, warm up bolt, do not over heat, has seal inside. I then went to a 3/4 breaker bar with a 6 foot black pipe on the end, yes you must use the special tool to stop from rotating. For me it was the jack stand that kept all inline. Hope this helps.

 

[chanak]

Do you know you need a special tool to remove the Crank Pulley Bolt on Honda. Google it. You cannot use a impact socket.

 

[OddyIndy]

Make sure that the power is turned up on your Milwaukee impact wrench. M18 fully charged with max power setting (there are three power settings) and the Lisle should work. Try it again man, and double-check that power setting. It creates more than enough torque to get that bolt off. (Yes, I'm telling you that I am the idiot that this happened to once, 😂!!)

 

[gcoryell]

A few items to be concerned about:

(1) The crankshaft pulley bolt is not installed at the factory using any Loctite. Do not use any type of threadlocking compound when reinstalling--not blue Loctite and definitely not red Loctite.

(2) The pulley bolt and washer (both used or new) should be carefully cleaned, rinsed with solvent, and blown dry. In your case, heat was applied, so you'll need a new bolt and washer--you want to clean the Cosmoline (or equivalent) off the new bolt and new washer.

(3) During installation of the pulley, washer, and bolt, new engine oil should be applied to specific surfaces of the washer and bolt. The other surfaces not lubricated need to remain dry. Look in a FSM to find out where these locations are.

(4) Never use an impact wrench to install the bolt. The bolt needs to be tightened with a socket to snug, then it needs to be torqued to a specific torque, and finally it needs to be tightened an additional amount of rotation (I think 60 degrees). You can use an angle gauge, but I just use yellow or white chalk marks.

(5) Never, ever heat a crank bolt. In your case, it was heated to cherry red hot, which greatly alters the designed metallurgy that Honda specified. The bolt is toast, the washer is toast, the damper is toast (rubber destroyed), and the main journal for the front main bearing is changed metallugically from being heated to cherry red hot--a front main bearing premature failure is in the cards, which will destroy the front main journal on the crank. The journal cannot be undersize ground because there will be spalling damage penetration deeper than the machinist can correct (because it will expose new metal that is not surface-hardened).

(6) I have had difficulties removing the bolt with 1/2" drive tools as well. I absolutely concur with one of the previous posts recommending 3/4" drive tools, as long as the socket fits inside the crank holding tool.

(7) I recommend getting new lower, rear, and front timing belt covers. They tend to warp and the long gaskets that fit in the grooves gets brittle, which opens up a spot for power steering fluid to enter. They are cheap and like someone else mentioned, you do NOT want to get any oil or power steering fluid on your new belt. Contamination will 90% of the time be power steering fluid since the pump is right above the rear timing cover.

(8) Check to make sure your year and model doesn't require the asymmetric shim for the idler pulley (and engine mount clearancing with a die grinder). I had to do this on our 2009 EX.

Great job and outstanding demonstration of perseverance!

 

[06ody79]

Hi everyone,
I'm new to this forum. I recently bought a 2012 EX-L w/152k miles. It was in really good condition and ran smoothly. First thing that went on was the VCM Muzzler. Side mount is pretty destroyed, so that needs replaced.

Anyways, went to do timing belt change because I'm pretty certain nothing was done even though there was 'timing belt inspection' at 150k.

I lubed this up for the past three days, heated it up several occasions, broke a breaker bar, tried the impact w/Lisle socket, tried to hold it with the pulley holder tool and use a cheater bar, and tonight, the starter bumps. Yup was desperate that I bumped a few times. At this point, I'm done.

The problem now that I face is that shops around me don't want to use the Aisin kit that I bought although they're quoting me with the exact kit with same THK-002 part number. One shop tried to charge me $469 for the kit. All I asked was to loosen the bolt for $100. They kept saying warranty for the parts... I keep telling them that i don't need one. I only got this car because it's better than a car payment. And it's perfectly fine other than the TB tensioner and maybe the ticking time belt.

Any tips on getting mechanics to just loosen the bolt for me? I thought $100 was more than reasonable but maybe not...COVID closed down the DIY shop near me that has mechanics and professional tools for now...

May want to get more info from others on the site but I had a Dodge Ram some years ago and had the same problem until someone called me out and states that the crankshaft bolt was reverse threat, took me three broken sockets to realize, good luck!