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Crankshaft bolt...how to get mechanic to take it off?

15K views 61 replies 38 participants last post by  phattyduck 
#1 ·
Hi everyone,
I'm new to this forum. I recently bought a 2012 EX-L w/152k miles. It was in really good condition and ran smoothly. First thing that went on was the VCM Muzzler. Side mount is pretty destroyed, so that needs replaced.

Anyways, went to do timing belt change because I'm pretty certain nothing was done even though there was 'timing belt inspection' at 150k.

I lubed this up for the past three days, heated it up several occasions, broke a breaker bar, tried the impact w/Lisle socket, tried to hold it with the pulley holder tool and use a cheater bar, and tonight, the starter bumps. Yup was desperate that I bumped a few times. At this point, I'm done.

The problem now that I face is that shops around me don't want to use the Aisin kit that I bought although they're quoting me with the exact kit with same THK-002 part number. One shop tried to charge me $469 for the kit. All I asked was to loosen the bolt for $100. They kept saying warranty for the parts... I keep telling them that i don't need one. I only got this car because it's better than a car payment. And it's perfectly fine other than the TB tensioner and maybe the ticking time belt.

Any tips on getting mechanics to just loosen the bolt for me? I thought $100 was more than reasonable but maybe not...COVID closed down the DIY shop near me that has mechanics and professional tools for now...
 
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#2 ·
I would have thought $100 would have been plenty to just loosen one bolt.

Where are you located? Perhaps someone on here would be willing to help. I know I would, if you were nearby.
 
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#3 ·
I'm in Columbia, Maryland area. I even went to a gas station shop and offered the same. They just wanted me to do the timing belt replacement there... Not just loosen the bolt.

I told one mechanic that I'd get my small oil leak taken care of there as well. Couldn't tell if it was the pan gasket or somewhere else. I was planning to take a look once the timing belt was off.

Just couldn't justify $1200 or $800 for labor for something that I could do especially on this car...other than taking that bolt off. Hah.
 
#4 ·
Lisle with impact is my only useful advice. A more powerful impact wrench is what I would try next.

When I was trying to decide whether to buy an electric impact wrench I borrowed a friend's Ryobi, their most powerful one, but it wouldn't budge. Then I used a pneumatic one (not sure how powerful) and it came off easily.

Down here in Texas, it would be $450 in labor for the timing belt and all the other "normal stuff."
 
#47 ·
Lisle with impact is my only useful advice. A more powerful impact wrench is what I would try next.

When I was trying to decide whether to buy an electric impact wrench I borrowed a friend's Ryobi, their most powerful one, but it wouldn't budge. Then I used a pneumatic one (not sure how powerful) and it came off easily.
I am going to guess the Ryobi impact wrench you tried is the 300ft/lb one. This past fall they introduced a new one that goes up to 600 ft/lb . I've held off on buying one till they released this one. I already have a bunch of Ryobi tools and battery, which is why I am sticking with Ryobi. If I still have my Odyssey when it hits the right mileage, I am at 92k right now, will buy that tool and the Lisle socket.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Thanks for the advice. I currently don't have access to a more powerful impact. Tried the cheap HF electric impact. Then the Milwaukee M18 1/2". I really thought the Lisle would do it. Pneumatic would be next at the diy shop whenever they decide to open. Just didn't want to buy more things than I ever need it for.

BTW, HF impact didn't even last 10sec. I thought I broke it. It overheated and sounded/smelled pretty dead. I think all they're good for is lug nuts.

I guess I'll start calling around outside my local area. Just didn't want to drive too far.

$450 would be nice. I wouldn't even bother doing it myself. The shops in Bronx, NY can be as low as $300 in labor...just living in (relatively) expensive town I guess.
 
#29 ·
Thanks for the advice. I currently don't have access to a more powerful impact. Tried the cheap HF electric impact. Then the Milwaukee M18 1/2". I really thought the Lisle would do it.
I have a Milwaukee M18 that is scary to use. It is the fuel version. Is it yours? Might the torque be toned down with precision settings?

I think that thing could spin the van off the bolt. I can't believe it won't remove the bolt by itself. In conjunction with the Lisle socket, it has to work. Any chance you're using extensions that are "wasting" the torque, rather than delivering it?
 
#8 ·
Hi everyone,
I'm new to this forum. I recently bought a 2012 EX-L w/152k miles. It was in really good condition and ran smoothly. First thing that went on was the VCM Muzzler. Side mount is pretty destroyed, so that needs replaced.

Anyways, went to do timing belt change because I'm pretty certain nothing was done even though there was 'timing belt inspection' at 150k.

I lubed this up for the past three days, heated it up several occasions, broke a breaker bar, tried the impact w/Lisle socket, tried to hold it with the pulley holder tool and use a cheater bar, and tonight, the starter bumps. Yup was desperate that I bumped a few times. At this point, I'm done.

The problem now that I face is that shops around me don't want to use the Aisin kit that I bought although they're quoting me with the exact kit with same THK-002 part number. One shop tried to charge me $469 for the kit. All I asked was to loosen the bolt for $100. They kept saying warranty for the parts... I keep telling them that i don't need one. I only got this car because it's better than a car payment. And it's perfectly fine other than the TB tensioner and maybe the ticking time belt.

Any tips on getting mechanics to just loosen the bolt for me? I thought $100 was more than reasonable but maybe not...COVID closed down the DIY shop near me that has mechanics and professional tools for now...
Sounds like the Milwaukee 1/2 electric 120v might do it. Are there any tool rental places around you? Home Depot? Auto parts store? Or you could buy it from Home Depot, keep it clean, use it , then return it as a duplicate gift. They might just make you take a store credit.
The other way is buy a snap-on breaker bar, use your cheater bar technique and if the bar breaks again snap- on is guaranteed get a replacement and try again.
 
#9 · (Edited)
If you were out here near me in CA, I'd do it for you just for the challenge. Too bad you are not getting helpful offers from the pros out there.

"tried to hold it with the pulley holder tool and use a cheater bar"

What happened when you did that? If you use a strong enough socket and breaker bar, 3/4" drive if you have that (and could consider buying them if not - can probably get 3/4" breaker bar + 3/4" drive socket [make sure it can fit within the pulley holder tool] with lifetime warranty from Hazard Fraught for less than $50), long enough cheater pipe on there, and it will either give or something will break. If every tool in the chain is strong enough then the bolt will either come loose or break - hopefully not the latter.

An alternative that has a similar effect is to use a torque multiplier. I have one of those, but an unbreakable (3/4") breaker bar and sufficiently long pipe can easily get you 1000+ ft-lbs of torque.

And in all of your attempts, were you using the pulley-holding tool firmly braced against the car somehow? The firmer anchoring you can get of that, the better the effect of impact or anything else will be. And of course that pulley holder + 1/2" breaker bar will be carrying the load too, so they will hopefully not be the weak links in the chain.
 
#12 ·
"tried to hold it with the pulley holder tool and use a cheater

What happened when you did that? If you use a strong enough socket and breaker bar, 3/4" drive if you have that (and could consider buying them if not - can probably get 3/4" breaker bar + 3/4" drive socket [make sure it can fit within the pulley holder tool] with lifetime warranty from Hazard Fraught for less than $50), long enough cheater pipe on there, and it will either give or something will break. If every tool in the chain is strong enough then the bolt will either come loose or break - hopefully not the latter.

An alternative that has a similar effect is to use a torque multiplier. I have one of those, but an unbreakable (3/4") breaker bar and sufficiently long pipe can easily get you 1000+ ft-lbs of torque.

And in all of your attempts, were you using the pulley-holding tool firmly braced against the car somehow? The firmer anchoring you can get of that, the better the effect of impact or anything else will be. And of course that pulley holder + 1/2" breaker bar will be carrying the load too, so they will hopefully not be the weak links in the chain.
I braced with pulley holder tool with a 8in bar firmly against the frame (wasn't going anywhere), used 1/2" breaker bar with 5ft cheater bar using 18" jack as pivot brace. Nothing. That's when the breaker bar broke. Went out to get another one after that.

I didn't try the 3/4" breaker or torque multiplier. I saw the torque multiplier, but at this rate, I'd be buying so many tools.

I tend to be on the conservative side, so even when I used heat with propane, it wasn't extremely hot. I probably watched about a dozen videos and read more forum threads than necessary to make sure I'm not screwing up somewhere.

I'm just hoping the last shop who did the 'timing belt inspection' according to carfax didn't do a silly thing like use an impact wrench to put the bolt back on.
 
#10 ·
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#14 · (Edited)
I just might if I can't find anyone with air tools strong enough....

Will report back later this week when I find a shop/someone who's willing to take a crack at it.

After total of 8 hours of just bolt work, I've thrown in the towel. I wouldn't feel that bad even if I end up driving until TB breaks for the price I paid for the car.
 
#16 ·
Found a shop woo-hoo. Hail Mary on shop in some real random location.

Must be my lucky day. They GOT THIS THING OFF. Took 40min.

I heard them cranking for like 20min. He said oxyacetalene torch, got it cherry red before cranking again.

The bolt will definitely be replaced. 3 days...he also said that this is the worst he's ever done to that bolt.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Glad you got it off. Great job. I could tell from your first posts that you had already done all the normal stuff and this would be an extreme case.

I would replace the crank shaft front seal. There is a chance that would have been damaged by the heat. I did not need any heat on mine, but replaced that seal anyway when doing the timing belt job on my 2011 LX. You don't want to take a chance on a leak there, otherwise the whole job needs to be repeated, practically. Replacing that seal is a not uncommon addition to the TB service, so with the torch heat, I think it's reasonable to add that in there. I could not find the Honda number for that part in my notes, but I used the FEL-PRO TCS46026 kit, which included that seal and several other random seals that may or may not work on my car. No comment on whether that part is the same for your car.

On your report on breaking your 1/2" breaker bar - that's exactly the right answer. (y)That means you were doing it right. Hopefully you had a lifetime warranty on whatever broke. If not, it can go on your wall of fame along with the crank bolt. :ROFLMAO: Pushing hard enough until the bolt either gives or the tool breaks. I think a 3/4" would have been a different story if you had decided to take that step. But you ended up getting it solved a different way, so that is great.

And great story on the pros getting it off. To make them break a sweat on this really is an accomplishment. :ROFLMAO:
 
#21 ·
Just thought of this ...

"timing belt inspection" - there really is no such thing. Usually when you replace the belt it looks almost as good as new. So inspecting would mean you check the timing marks (but a code would be thrown if it was out of time), maybe looking to see if the tensioner is leaking oil or making a little noise, and making sure there were not any engine oil leaks that could be contaminating the belt.

So here's my guess :ROFLMAO: ... the PO took the car into a shop for a TB job, and they could not get the bolt off, so told the PO that they just inspected it and it was good to go.
 
#22 ·
Another thought on the side-effects of the torching ...

The crank pulley (a.k.a. "harmonic balancer") is basically an inner pulley and an outer pulley with a thin sandwich of rubber at the interface. When you remove it, you'll be able to see more carefully.

I can see how the extreme heat may have cooked the rubber a little. Not enough to set it on fire now, but maybe causing premature failure several years down the road. So at this point, just keep in mind that that rare failure could be less rare for you.

There's actually a story about that interface failing in this month's RockAuto newsletter: RockAuto April Newsletter | Early Edition
 
#25 · (Edited)
I tried both against the frame first and the short sprint into the frame. 😅 Was nervous as heck. After about 3rd crank, I was like f this and cranked it four more times.

Now just waiting for replacement parts to come in before I tackle this again.

Good call on the pulley rubber, @oldskewel. Putting that in the parts order. Not because of heat necessarily, but again, it's almost 10yr old car with 158k and zero signs of previous work on timing belt. I feel like the abuse it took should deserve some new parts.

It looks like I might need to order an entire harmonic balancer rather than being able to order just the rubber ring. Sort of makes sense... But is this true?
 
#24 ·
Thanks, I might just replace the seals regardless...fraction of cost compared to what it could be. The amount of impact & duration that the shop did to the bolt kinda made me cringe, too.

In the end, best $40 I could spend on car repair for now.
 
#30 ·
Torque is good but you gotta put the heat to it to convince the locktite to give it up.... propane isn't enough I dont think. MAP GAS torch at HD or Lowes is an investment I think the REAPIR GEEK on YouTube is a good example of really putting the crap to it... also getting it up in the air allows you to crank it more...but HEAT the crap out of it right in the center of the nut.... that seemed to convince it to work.
 
#31 ·
Hi everyone,
I'm new to this forum. I recently bought a 2012 EX-L w/152k miles. It was in really good condition and ran smoothly. First thing that went on was the VCM Muzzler. Side mount is pretty destroyed, so that needs replaced.

Anyways, went to do timing belt change because I'm pretty certain nothing was done even though there was 'timing belt inspection' at 150k.

I lubed this up for the past three days, heated it up several occasions, broke a breaker bar, tried the impact w/Lisle socket, tried to hold it with the pulley holder tool and use a cheater bar, and tonight, the starter bumps. Yup was desperate that I bumped a few times. At this point, I'm done.

The problem now that I face is that shops around me don't want to use the Aisin kit that I bought although they're quoting me with the exact kit with same THK-002 part number. One shop tried to charge me $469 for the kit. All I asked was to loosen the bolt for $100. They kept saying warranty for the parts... I keep telling them that i don't need one. I only got this car because it's better than a car payment. And it's perfectly fine other than the TB tensioner and maybe the ticking time belt.

Any tips on getting mechanics to just loosen the bolt for me? I thought $100 was more than reasonable but maybe not...COVID closed down the DIY shop near me that has mechanics and professional tools for i had the same issue on an 2008 messed with it for days 2ft breaker bar 1/2" drive swivel head from harbor feight got a 6ft chain link metal fence post slide over the breaker bar thought i broke something but it had finally broke the lock tight lose.
There is a special socket I will buy if I ever do another w
 
#32 ·
Hi everyone,
I'm new to this forum. I recently bought a 2012 EX-L w/152k miles. It was in really good condition and ran smoothly. First thing that went on was the VCM Muzzler. Side mount is pretty destroyed, so that needs replaced.

Anyways, went to do timing belt change because I'm pretty certain nothing was done even though there was 'timing belt inspection' at 150k.

I lubed this up for the past three days, heated it up several occasions, broke a breaker bar, tried the impact w/Lisle socket, tried to hold it with the pulley holder tool and use a cheater bar, and tonight, the starter bumps. Yup was desperate that I bumped a few times. At this point, I'm done.

The problem now that I face is that shops around me don't want to use the Aisin kit that I bought although they're quoting me with the exact kit with same THK-002 part number. One shop tried to charge me $469 for the kit. All I asked was to loosen the bolt for $100. They kept saying warranty for the parts... I keep telling them that i don't need one. I only got this car because it's better than a car payment. And it's perfectly fine other than the TB tensioner and maybe the ticking time belt.

Any tips on getting mechanics to just loosen the bolt for me? I thought $100 was more than reasonable but maybe not...COVID closed down the DIY shop near me that has mechanics and professional tools for now...
Are you sure that bolt is a right hand type?
 
#33 ·
Hi everyone,
I'm new to this forum. I recently bought a 2012 EX-L w/152k miles. It was in really good condition and ran smoothly. First thing that went on was the VCM Muzzler. Side mount is pretty destroyed, so that needs replaced.

Anyways, went to do timing belt change because I'm pretty certain nothing was done even though there was 'timing belt inspection' at 150k.

I lubed this up for the past three days, heated it up several occasions, broke a breaker bar, tried the impact w/Lisle socket, tried to hold it with the pulley holder tool and use a cheater bar, and tonight, the starter bumps. Yup was desperate that I bumped a few times. At this point, I'm done.

The problem now that I face is that shops around me don't want to use the Aisin kit that I bought although they're quoting me with the exact kit with same THK-002 part number. One shop tried to charge me $469 for the kit. All I asked was to loosen the bolt for $100. They kept saying warranty for the parts... I keep telling them that i don't need one. I only got this car because it's better than a car payment. And it's perfectly fine other than the TB tensioner and maybe the ticking time belt.

Any tips on getting mechanics to just loosen the bolt for me? I thought $100 was more than reasonable but maybe not...COVID closed down the DIY shop near me that has mechanics and professional tools for now...
There are some great local mechanics, and the one near me is superb. He has a lot of customers for life.

A few years ago I had successfully done my timing belt on my 2000 Accord, and I‘d loosened the crankshaft bolt using a “persuader” to exert adequate torque. I used the weight of the car, gradually lowering it onto the lever until the bolt turned.

However, when I began the same on my 2000 Odyssey, I suddenly realized (with the even greater weight) I could easily damage the bolt or ruin the engine. So I drove down to this local auto shop to get it unscrewed with an air gun.

As I arrived, I told the guy, “I’ll give you $40, just to loosen the crankshaft bolt!”
He answered with a grin, “Ah... timing belt??”
I had everything ready, impact socket at the ready, all the guy had to do was attach his air gun and shift the bolt.

Well, it was really tight, but it worked, but then the guy refused to take my $40. So I looked in the Ody and came back with a bottle of J&B Whiskey, saying “how about this?” And his response was “oh, sure, I’ll take that!”

Happy shop. Happy customer. And ever since, I tell everyone what a great auto shop that is!
 
#34 ·
Hi everyone,
I'm new to this forum. I recently bought a 2012 EX-L w/152k miles. It was in really good condition and ran smoothly. First thing that went on was the VCM Muzzler. Side mount is pretty destroyed, so that needs replaced.

Anyways, went to do timing belt change because I'm pretty certain nothing was done even though there was 'timing belt inspection' at 150k.

I lubed this up for the past three days, heated it up several occasions, broke a breaker bar, tried the impact w/Lisle socket, tried to hold it with the pulley holder tool and use a cheater bar, and tonight, the starter bumps. Yup was desperate that I bumped a few times. At this point, I'm done.

The problem now that I face is that shops around me don't want to use the Aisin kit that I bought although they're quoting me with the exact kit with same THK-002 part number. One shop tried to charge me $469 for the kit. All I asked was to loosen the bolt for $100. They kept saying warranty for the parts... I keep telling them that i don't need one. I only got this car because it's better than a car payment. And it's perfectly fine other than the TB tensioner and maybe the ticking time belt.

Any tips on getting mechanics to just loosen the bolt for me? I thought $100 was more than reasonable but maybe not...COVID closed down the DIY shop near me that has mechanics and professional tools for now...
Do you know you need a special tool to remove the Crank Pulley Bolt on Honda. Google it. You cannot use a impact socket.
 
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