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Are you just saying they did a bad job with the alignment, or if after an alignment the steering wheel being off is a sign of a major problem that can't be fixed without major repair?
I'm not saying that it can't be fixed... I'm saying that they had somebody incompetent do the alignment, which doesn't bode well for anything else they did or will be doing. It is also a hint that the front end should be checked closely - but not necessarily a deal breaker. If you have an alignment sheet for the most recent work, can you post it?

Then again, when I have alignments done, I stand right behind the car and make sure the tech does everything right (and often request non-OEM alignment settings). I'm sure it annoys the shop, but alignments and tires are basically the only things I don't do myself (heck, I normally bring the wheels/tires to the tire shop off the car even...).

-Charlie
 

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The idea that having a V6 engine use all 6 of its cylinders is somehow bad for it simply staggers the imagination. It's hard to find the words to describe just how completely inane that notion is.

People: VCM2 (model years 2008-2017) is a dog and a clunker. It has cost Honda millions and millions of dollars in engine rebuilds that shouldn't have been necessary. The newest Honda V6s (with VCM3) run only on 3 or 6 cylinders. Ya wanna know the biggest reason why the 4 cylinder option went away? Because it's too fricking complicated to execute well, even now. Even Honda decided the stupid thing (ie VCM2) isn't worth the trouble so they ditched it. Why on earth would we owners not follow their lead? We have it in our power to do so. Easily.

Muzzle the VCM on your gen 4 Odyssey and make everyone's life easier - yours, the van's, and Honda's.
Coincidentally...
So get this... I installed the VCMuzzlerII last fall, no issues on the blue resistor.
Yesterday, nice sunny hot day (finally) and im getting on the highway, pedal down to the carpet like usual when getting up to speed and merging.

entire engine cuts out, im like wtf, look at the dash ECO light is having a fit on and off on and off.
van had no bawls at all, limped home with ECO on and off and up and down like a toilet seat.
very erratic but no CEL.
left the van overnight, put on the brown resistor today, had to drive a 100kms and it was smooth as silk with all 248 ponies available.

That VCM is total junk, and yesterdays incident confirmed it.

so there's that...
 

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I'm not saying that it can't be fixed... I'm saying that they had somebody incompetent do the alignment, which doesn't bode well for anything else they did or will be doing. It is also a hint that the front end should be checked closely - but not necessarily a deal breaker. If you have an alignment sheet for the most recent work, can you post it?

Then again, when I have alignments done, I stand right behind the car and make sure the tech does everything right (and often request non-OEM alignment settings). I'm sure it annoys the shop, but alignments and tires are basically the only things I don't do myself (heck, I normally bring the wheels/tires to the tire shop off the car even...).

-Charlie
lol im the hovering customer as well, but I bring coffee / lunch or shop gizmos for my tech friends.
so they don't throw a wrench at me.
😂
Every alignment I get has a printout report, if something is bent or worn in the suspension the report shows it.

Something to add is I have seen cars align perfectly with bent or damaged frames, vehicle would have a pull while driving (which prompted the alignment), but the thing was aligned perfect and the wheel straight as an arrow.

didnt think that was possible, until it happened.
 

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Discussion Starter #44
If you have an alignment sheet for the most recent work, can you post it?
Of course... I got this report... but I'll say it looks like they put new tires on it when they put it up for sale at the dealership, so I have to imagine it was aligned already within a few weeks or the month before.

I asked them to do an alignment cause the steering wheel was off. When I got it back, he said they had a slight adjustment (seen below), but it was otherwise fine. I got in to start driving again and he had not taken care to center the steering wheel (assuming there is not a bigger issue at play here)
155441
 

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Toe in for the rear is a bit on the high side but ok. They probably didn't want to mess with it. They also modified the rear camber settings to show green (should max out at 1.3*) - but all the vans have higher camber than spec, so not a real issue there - the rear looks fine/normal.

It looks like they were just lazy when the did the front half of the alignment. Step one is to lock the steering wheel in the straight ahead position (they have tools for that), then you adjust both front tie rods for correct toe. Your front cross-camber is also on the high side and would likely cause a pull to the right (have to hold the steering wheel left to stay straight).

-Charlie
 

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Something to add is I have seen cars align perfectly with bent or damaged frames, vehicle would have a pull while driving (which prompted the alignment), but the thing was aligned perfect and the wheel straight as an arrow.

didnt think that was possible, until it happened.
Happened to me too, on my very first car. Back in the day, my brother got into an accident in my car. After doing my best to fix things I took it to my trusty alignment shop, telling them the story, etc. They said they'd do their best. When they gave it back to me they said there were problems, they tried, etc. and it was the best they or anyone could do.

I believed it, paid them, and as I was driving home, I found that it was now pulling to the left exactly the same amount it had been previously pulling to the right. So I went back and said, hey, can you undo half the changes you did? They did that (not sure how, exactly they were able, but they were good techs) and it drove perfectly straight from that point until I sold it several years later.

Another complicating factor is that sometimes things will shift when driving, due to the forces and torques of going down the road, so perfect alignment on the rack will then shift and cause problems when driving.

On other things in this interesting thread:
  • definite problem to get the car back after alignment with an offset steering wheel angle. Shows laziness or incompetence or both.
  • in general with alignments, keep in mind that the car should drive perfectly straight when your hands are off the wheel. So that is step one in seeing if it is good. Then AFTER confirming that's OK (no pull, drives straight), you confirm that the steering wheel is straight. So for example, if the car pulls to the left and you need to pull on the steering wheel to the right to keep it driving straight, that is a problem, regardless of whether the wheel is level.
  • Adjusting rear toe on these cars is way more difficult than the front adjustments. Difficult access, huge torque requirement, and there is a cross-coupling effect with rear camber that may lead to an issue (or improvement) in camber when adjusting toe. So it is understandable if a borderline situation were left alone.
  • In fact there is no front camber adjustment either, unless you install camber bolts (thinner than the stock ones, allowing some adjustment before tightening). And there is no rear camber adjustment (other than the cross-coupling that happens with rear toe adjustment). So if you don't adjust the rear toe (as I said, understandable), the ONLY thing there is to adjust is the front toe. Looking at the printout immediately above, it shows that is the only thing modified. And front toe is what you use to dial the steering wheel straight.
 

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Happened to me too, on my very first car. Back in the day, my brother got into an accident in my car. After doing my best to fix things I took it to my trusty alignment shop, telling them the story, etc. They said they'd do their best. When they gave it back to me they said there were problems, they tried, etc. and it was the best they or anyone could do.

I believed it, paid them, and as I was driving home, I found that it was now pulling to the left exactly the same amount it had been previously pulling to the right. So I went back and said, hey, can you undo half the changes you did? They did that (not sure how, exactly they were able, but they were good techs) and it drove perfectly straight from that point until I sold it several years later.

Another complicating factor is that sometimes things will shift when driving, due to the forces and torques of going down the road, so perfect alignment on the rack will then shift and cause problems when driving.

On other things in this interesting thread:
  • definite problem to get the car back after alignment with an offset steering wheel angle. Shows laziness or incompetence or both.
  • in general with alignments, keep in mind that the car should drive perfectly straight when your hands are off the wheel. So that is step one in seeing if it is good. Then AFTER confirming that's OK (no pull, drives straight), you confirm that the steering wheel is straight. So for example, if the car pulls to the left and you need to pull on the steering wheel to the right to keep it driving straight, that is a problem, regardless of whether the wheel is level.
  • Adjusting rear toe on these cars is way more difficult than the front adjustments. Difficult access, huge torque requirement, and there is a cross-coupling effect with rear camber that may lead to an issue (or improvement) in camber when adjusting toe. So it is understandable if a borderline situation were left alone.
  • In fact there is no front camber adjustment either, unless you install camber bolts (thinner than the stock ones, allowing some adjustment before tightening). And there is no rear camber adjustment (other than the cross-coupling that happens with rear toe adjustment). So if you don't adjust the rear toe (as I said, understandable), the ONLY thing there is to adjust is the front toe. Looking at the printout immediately above, it shows that is the only thing modified. And front toe is what you use to dial the steering wheel straight.
my rear control arms bolts they would not touch, they are seized solid. thanks to living in the salt belt and not being rust treated from new.
 

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In fact there is no front camber adjustment either, unless you install camber bolts
I'm sure you could get a few tenths camber in or out by loosening and moving some parts - they are just much more difficult to do and less exact than standard adjustments. (like, shifting subframes, top hats, strut/knuckle bolts, etc.) That wouldn't be part of any normal alignment.

-Charlie
 
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