Honda Odyssey Forum banner

1 - 20 of 28 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
2004 honda odyssey.
230,000 miles.
Most of the time my wife drives the van. She is a cautious driver and typically easy on vehicles.
The van has regular sparkplug,air filter,oil filter and oil changes.

I got about 15 miles from home and stopped at a red light,the light changed green I accelerated normally and got to about 30-35mph and the engine shut off but I still had all the lights,brakes and steering felt normal as well. I coasted to the shoulder and stopped,put it in park and tried to restart it,with no luck,I tried neutral as well.
All the fluids looked good,nothing was leaking,no warning lights lit up on the dash.
The motor cranks but wont start.
I got it towed home that night.
The next day I took a look and visually see nothing wrong.

I pulled each fuse and looked at them,didn't test any but all looked good.
Because I bought the van used I didnt know its history and I figured its time to replace some of the common things that go out on Honda's.
I replaced the main relay.
I replaced the spark plugs,coils and the fuel pump since it has the filter and regulator on it.
It was nice having a pump somewhat easy to get to.
I cleaned the injectors inside very well and out,I took off and cleaned the manifold contraption top plate both sides and the center section.
It had a bit of carbon buildup.
It is getting power to the coils,and fuel to the rail. The motor cranks and the battery is good.
There is a slight leak on the power steering pump hose on the passenger side. I can see where dirt sticks to it but its not pouring out anywhere. The power steering fluid level seems to stay up. Since I noticed the leak a couple weeks ago I ordered the hose and added a little bit of power steering fluid with stop leak in it.
The belts or belt that I can see move while cranking. But I can not see the belt inside the covers,which I am assuming is the timing belt. I ordered a repair book. Just trying to get some ideas of what to check.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
First thing I would check is the timing belt; it's failure would yield the symptoms you described and by not knowing the maintenance history of the vehicle it may well be your problem - hope not.
There is an inspection hole ~3/4" diameter in the plastic cover on the left side of the engine (facing the engine from the front). Pull that cover and have someone hit the starter . . . pray you see the belt move past the hole when it does. If no movement, the belt is broken. If it does move, still need to dig in a bit farther (at least remove the top belt cover) to make sure the belt hasn't lost teeth and jumped timing.
If you have lost the timing belt, sorry, big problem. Quick search on "timing belt break" will give you insight into your future options.
Good Luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thank you for the reply and the information. Now that I know there is an inspection hole I will check that first when I get home from work this evening. I would like to check it now but it's 430 in the morning and nobody would appreciate me waking them up to crank the motor over for me to see if it is broken. I just thought about putting my phone there to record while I crank it over then watch the video to get it off of my mind lol

I will read up on a broken timing belt this afternoon or evening to get an idea of the procedures afterwords.

I may be wrong but since it cranks but wont fire over the crank sounds like it is moving I am assuming the bottom end would be good.

Now I have the suspense of waiting about 16 hours to check it lol

I cant wait to get the book for it to see whats involved.
Thanks for the insight,the inspection window is nice to know about
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,433 Posts
Classic symptoms of a broken timing belt. If you didn't hear a significant "bang" when it happened you may get lucky. A motor with a broken belt also sounds very different when it is turning over than one with the belt intact. So much so that I find it pretty easy to diagnose when I hear one. If it sounds "normal" then it may be something else.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,990 Posts
Remove the oil filler cap and shine a flashlight down inside while someone cranks the engine over. If nothing moves under the valve cover, a broken timing belt is the biggest suspect.
Free and easy.
Buffalo4
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Classic symptoms of a broken timing belt. If you didn't hear a significant "bang" when it happened you may get lucky. A motor with a broken belt also sounds very different when it is turning over than one with the belt intact. So much so that I find it pretty easy to diagnose when I hear one. If it sounds "normal" then it may be something else.
I didnt hear a bang or any kind of rough noises. It was surprisingly smooth almost like I just turned the key off and coasted to a stop.
I can hear when its cranking that its different than normal almost like no compression or turning easier maybe.
Glad there was no bang at least lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Remove the oil filler cap and shine a flashlight down inside while someone cranks the engine over. If nothing moves under the valve cover, a broken timing belt is the biggest suspect.
Free and easy.
Buffalo4
Thanks for the tip.
That was a fairly easy way to check.
I was going to check the 3/4" sight window on the other side but I didnt even get a chance to look for it yet since I looked in the cap.
The spring didnt compress and I couldnt see any movement inside the oil cap while the motor cranked for about 20 seconds 2 different times.
Most likely a broken belt or the belt slipped ,possibly the tensioner gave out causing it. Hope to get into it this weekend.
Thanks for the tips I appreciate it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,027 Posts
If the valves are not moving the timing belt is broken. My grandparents had a 1990's Toyota Camry that they drove home and parked after buying a new car and two days later when a couple came over to look at the car it wouldn't start and acted like it had no compression. I checked and determined the timing belt had broken as the valves didn't move. They had it towed to Toyota because they had just done the timing belt a few months prior. Toyota obviously said it wasn't a timing belt but that it had two burnt valves. I argued with Toyota until I was black and blue and I tried to convince my grandparents they where being had but they went ahead and had Toyota fix it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Some rambling thoughts about this situation.
Some advice because of all you peoples experience is much appreciated.

I know I should confirm the exact extent of damage. I'm pretty sure the belt gave out now. With as many mules as it has,its due for some engine work.

Assuming the belt blew and bent some valves, is it usually just the bent valves that need replaced? Maybe some guides and seals possibly keepers or springs as well id guess?

Or is the engine normally fubar?

I really dont want to replace the engine and may decide to scrap it out if the cost is higher than a replacement vehicle,as odd as that sounds to me to say.

Typically I just fix em instead of replacem but its getting tricky nowadays but it is the same concept from what I am learning.
My daily commuter is a 92 Honda civic that I got when it was 6 years old.
It is creeping on 400k id fix it long before paying for another car payment and jacked up insurance rate. As long as its somewhat safe and gets decent gas mileage lol

It performed well enough for me to pick a honda van over an american brand and I have had a good experience with the odyssey so far other than some minor fixes.

Like a leak in passenger side roof track/windshield area that had some dirt, fir needles and pollen buildup and clog the drain channels it pooled up where some factory sealant plugged the drain hole in the passengers floorboard. I think its resolved.
The wafers in the ignition were worn and catching ,to the point it wouldn't turn to start. I decided to take the wafers out so i didnt have to replace the anti theft system,flash the computer system of the anti theft system or pay for new keys etc.
So far thats working great.

Again not that I want to but,From what I read pulling the motor in the odyssey is somehow easier to drop and lift the van as odd as that seems to me.
I did read where a guy left the transmission in and pulled the engine up and out. Hopefully its not a whole engine ordeal.

So I'm thinking if I can do the work for a reasonable price, the rest of the vehicle is in good shape. A head job on a engine with 240k is reasonable.
Replacing the heads with remanufactured heads runs me around 500 a head which seems reasonable in wa state.

Then from what I read id need the timing belt,tensioner,water pump,cam and crank seals ,flush and change the radiator fluid.
So far from what I have found its around 350 for a kit with most or all of the stuff needed for the timing belt.

I think I am understanding what I read correct, that the 2004 has a "decent" transmission and a fluid change and a cooler would be all i would need to do to it.

I imagine I could get a junkyard engine with unknown history for cheaper than rebuilding the heads and timing belt kit etc, but thats a boat ride I dont really want.

Lets say I have to replace the heads,is the bottom half of these engines good for another 200k or should i look into a complete rebuild or a reman long block/new engine.

I imagine a new engine is still cheaper than a new vehicle with a unknown history ,waiting to explode as soon as the warranty expires lol

I am limited to working on the van on the weekends mostly. I usually leave for work around 430am and get home around 630pm after dinner and a shower,some time with the kids and wife it dont leave much time for the van during the week especially in the dark Washington winter hours lol

Thanks for the info and tips everyone I appreciate it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
If the valves are not moving the timing belt is broken. My grandparents had a 1990's Toyota Camry that they drove home and parked after buying a new car and two days later when a couple came over to look at the car it wouldn't start and acted like it had no compression. I checked and determined the timing belt had broken as the valves didn't move. They had it towed to Toyota because they had just done the timing belt a few months prior. Toyota obviously said it wasn't a timing belt but that it had two burnt valves. I argued with Toyota until I was black and blue and I tried to convince my grandparents they where being had but they went ahead and had Toyota fix it.
Thank you for your insight.
It makes sense. I'm just in denial I think lol.
Unfortunately I'm thinking it is and now I just need to see how bad it is.
Id think a shop would charge the same price a whole engine costs for the repair lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,027 Posts
I am in Richland, Wa. Typically in these situations you want to replace the timing belt, get the timing back on, and check compression to determine what is and what isn't damaged than perform the needed repair. Typically on these engines the bare minimum you need to do is replace the broken valves. Worst case scenario you damaged a piston or two as well. If it's the worst case scenario than a used/rebuilt engine is probably the best route. Spaldings and LKQ are both good sources of used engines. If the damage is in the heads then I would probably have a machine shop rebuild them as these engines can run a long time.

The fact that you continued to crank it after the belt broke increases the possibility that you damaged the heads.

Keep in mind regardless of whether you repair your engine or get a used one you will want to do a timing belt kit, coolant, and depending upon when you last did the plugs new plugs as well.

The late 2004's had the updated transmissions. The easiest way to tell is to look at the filler plug for the transmission. If it is just the plug its updated if the plug has a line running into its not the updated transmission.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
I am in Richland, Wa. Typically in these situations you want to replace the timing belt, get the timing back on, and check compression to determine what is and what isn't damaged than perform the needed repair. Typically on these engines the bare minimum you need to do is replace the broken valves. Worst case scenario you damaged a piston or two as well. If it's the worst case scenario than a used/rebuilt engine is probably the best route. Spaldings and LKQ are both good sources of used engines. If the damage is in the heads then I would probably have a machine shop rebuild them as these engines can run a long time.

The fact that you continued to crank it after the belt broke increases the possibility that you damaged the heads.

Keep in mind regardless of whether you repair your engine or get a used one you will want to do a timing belt kit, coolant, and depending upon when you last did the plugs new plugs as well.

The late 2004's had the updated transmissions. The easiest way to tell is to look at the filler plug for the transmission. If it is just the plug its updated if the plug has a line running into its not the updated transmission.
That is good to know thank you.
I will buy the timing belt kit and replace it to see what all is damaged and see if it is salvageable.
Hopefully I can get away with the belt only to heck it out . seems kind of counter productive to invest 150-300 to see whats broken but i guess it's still cheaper than paying a mechanic plus parts to get the same answer lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,027 Posts
I would just get a belt unless other components are damaged.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
I would just get a belt unless other components are damaged.
To test it out a cheap belt like this is fine rite?
But if the engine is worth salvaging,which belt / kit is a good one to go with. There are several to choose from and I have learned the most expensive does not mean the most reliable unfortunately lol
Screenshot_20200128-123549.png
.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,027 Posts
That belt would be fine for testing. Aisin timing belt kit is what I and others use here. I have gotten mine from rock auto.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Quick update.
You were all correct,it was the timing belt.
I have been busy and did not have time to work on the van untill today.
I got the intake off.
The intake valves on both heads visually look good,all of are down looking through the intake openings.
I decided to see if any of you know a trick for taking the thermostat housing / assembly off so i can remove the heads?
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
689 Posts
Its almost certain there are bent valves there if the van was in gear/moving when the belt broke. You can't really see the damage from the top. I would not even bother putting a new timing belt and trying it. Decide if you want to fix/overhaul it or get another used engine if you diy.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Thanks for the reply and the input
It is looking like there will be some bent valves the good news is all of the stems are intact and all of the intake valves are 100% together. That dont mean they are not bent lol but at least they did not snap off and go into the pistons.
I cant see the exhaust valves yet just their stems.
So far what I am thinking is,pulling the heads off to see if they are reusable then I am thinking I could check the bottom end while its still in the van.
If they check out good I could rebuild the top end and be good to go.
If the bottom end is damaged I am thinking it mite be cheaper to go to the junk yard and get a good block and rebuild it so I know the motors history from mile 1. If it gets to that point I may look into a crate motor to see which route is cheaper to rebuild or buy the crate motor.
Now I have to take that thermostat housing off. I'm thinking its hammer time! And a wood block so i dont hurt the aluminum lol
 
1 - 20 of 28 Posts
Top