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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,

It's been a while since I've posted and this is my first in the 05+ Forum.

I've had an 04 EXL w/DVD for six years and it's been a great vehicle. On Tuesday it was totaled when an oncoming driver decided to turn left in front of my wife and kids.

The result was a 45+ mph head on collision. Thank God for seat belts and air bags as the worst injuries were seat belt bruising and muscle soreness. The Ody took the brunt of the damage and I will be surprised if the insurance company doesn't total it.

As much as I want my van back (it was paid for, had 66K on it and was a great tow vehicle for my boat), I'm not interested in trying to repair it after seeing the extent of the damage.

The reality of insurance has settled in and I realize that I'll be lucky if I get about $15K for my vehicle. I've come to enjoy not having a car payment and $15K comes no where close to paying for a new EXL w/DVD these days.

I've started looking at used vans and have found a couple of nice 07 models under $23K. One is a Touring with 41K and the other is an EXL w/DVD and 51K on the clock.

I'd been leaning toward the touring, but just saw some of the PAX threads and now I'm not sure any more.

Any thought regarding the differing features on these models? Is the PAX issue a big one? It reminds me of a mid 80's BMW that owned years ago. It had Metric wheels on it and I could only buy Michelin TRX tires for it. Ultimately I wound up replacing wheels and tires to get out of the box I was in with tires. This PAX thing sounds very similar.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and pointers on these vehicles as well as any gotcha's I should be looking for in this generation of Ody as I begin shopping.

Jeff
 

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It is amazing how many stories I have heard with the Ody in a serious accident and everyone is basically OK. Glad that is your case!

Don't let the Pax be the deciding factor. There is a member that sells "kits" for $1500-2000 that included new tires. If the van needs them anyway, that drops the upgrade to about $1000. This includes the TPMS sensors.

As far as the other "extras" of the touring - seems like it changed a bit year to year, you have to decide if that makes it worth it.
 

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I'm not 100% sure about the 2007, but in 05 and 06 the Touring didn't come the the PlusOne (middle second row) seat. It was only available in the EX and EX-L. If that's important to you at all (it was for us) then you might want to consider the EX-L.

At some point they started making it available in the Touring, just not sure which year that started in.

Good luck, and glad to hear that everyone was alright after the accident!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the replies and well wishes.

We drove an 07 EXL w/DVD today. All I have to say is WOW! This vehicle is much more refined than my 04.

The ride is much nicer and more solid than the 04 ever was.

I called about the 07 Touring and asked specifically about the PAX tires. The salesman was aware of the concern and claims this vehicle does not have them. Could be a good sign, but the car is a 2 hour drive away so I need to be certain before I drive to see the vehicle.

Is there anything else I can ask the salesperson to confirm before I commit to a drive? I.e. maybe a close up picture of the tires or something like that/

Thanks
 

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Yep, a pic showing the logo on the tire and the rim will settle the PAX question.

Hate to break your bubble, but it's unlikely you'll see anything close to 15 for the '04.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks Tri,

My wife said the same thing about $15K as you did. My only reference to it came from a Kelley Blue Book that showed $15K retail value for my car. (04, EXL, RES, 66K, Excellent Condition (well it used to be), towing package)

Fingers crossed.

What does the tire logo/rims look like on the pax cars?

Thanks again,
 

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The best way that I can describe it is that the lip of the PAX rim is essentially flat as opposed to the curled edge of a conventional wheel.

On the '04 value - I wasn't really thinking retail but you're right to do so. 15 might be within reach. Also, make sure they also give you the amount that the sales tax will be.
 

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You need to be reimbursed what it would take to buy the same vehicle you had including tax. Shop around and give examples...book value is one thing but if there's nothing around for that price then you should argue for more. A good agent goes along way here...(my cheap shot on online/no agent insurance).

Do you want/need the rear DVD? I would think that would drive the decision. PAX isn't a huge deal as long as you know your options. There are advantages and disadvantages....probably more disadvantages today than ever given the non-success of the program. The PAX rims look terrific...it's a 10 or 12 spoke design which I've never found a similar replacement aftermarket or otherwise. The PAX rims won't work for anything but the PAX tires....so it will either have those rims and PAX or not. Look at some pics online... edmunds.com is a good spot.

Touring has some nice little extras and I would have gone for the Touring at the time if it had the 8th seat. Auto headlamps, power liftgate, and a full trip computer are basic ones. But if you have a Honda now...you may not miss those econo-car features that Honda considers luxury!
 

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Seems like KBB and other values are really high right now. We just purchased and it seemed like the KBB values for the minivan market were about $3k too high versus the market in the DFW area. For example, there's an extremely clean 80k mile '04 EX-L w/ RES at a premium dealer here for $11,300 (asking) that we would've bought but for our personal issue with the front pax seat that we both feel is somewhat unsupportive. We bought an extremely clean '05 Touring w/ RES, NAV and Roof, one owner, with primarily Honda maintenance (per CarFax) and 90k miles for $14k from an Acura dealer. We could have paid about a grand less for a similar EX-L but couldn't find one during our admittedly short search that was anywhere near as nice (and I honestly didn't research the differences beforehand, not my usual style but little patience this time).

As to the Pax issue, I knew absolutely nothing about it prior to purchase. Not sure if I'm glad about that or not. But thank God the vehicle we bought has (pax) tires that are seemingly brand new. Near as I can tell it's not as bad as some of the discussion topics would make it seem at first. It seems to me that you basically are out the price of a new wheel set and spare kit if you dePax, or you spend big $$ to re-tire each time with the quick wearing runflats. I really like the wheels, and the thought of runflats is nice for when the wife and kids are out and about, but I will probably dePax when the time comes.
 

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KBB retail numbers are generally quite high...and they admit it's not real world: "Kelley Blue Book Suggested Retail Value is representative of dealers' asking prices for a used car, and the starting point for negotiation between a consumer and a dealer."

I find Edmunds.com usually more realistic and their retail number is supposed to be the negotiated deal price. Edmunds says $12,200 for an '04 EX-L with DVD and 66k miles. Might be able to get it up to $14k. Just depends on what's available in the OP's local area. If there's nothing comparable....they may have room to negotiate further.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the replies. You've all given me a lot to think about.

Here's a link to the 07 Touring.

For those of you in the know do those look like they might be PAX rims? I know they aren't the greatest pictures, but they are the best I have a available.

Here's the 07 EXL/RES I drove today.

Thoughts?

Thanks again,
 

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Those are PAX wheels and tires. I just purchased an 06 touring but I made sure the tires were somewhat new, mine had about 3k miles on them. I will rotate them like crazy and when they are done I will do the DEPAX. The car certainly has far more bells and whistles than I would normally look for in a car but the price was right. Glad to hear the family is Ok.
 

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First off and most importantly, im glad that everybody is ok. I had a 2003 EXL which was all paid off. Last Dec. 2009 my daughter and I got into an accident similar to yours. Redlight runner hit us towards the front. He hit us so hard, that the total front end moved 5 inches to the left. We both walked away with no injuries, but our poor van was totaled. We never had any issues what so ever and it was hard to see it go. But, lucky the insurance company gave us $17,000 for the totaled van. I had scheduled oil changes, a t-belt package, along with new tires. The van had approx 98K miles on it and it was in great condition according to the insurance claim adjuster. Im hoping that you'll get the same amount or somewhere near. I ended up purchasing a brand new 2010 EX-L.

Im sure whatever vehicle you decide on, it'll be the right one. Goodluck.
 

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Both look nice. I really like the extra features on the touring. My touring drives great and from what I understand, the Touring has a different, sportier suspension.

I depaxed at a cost of about $1500. I went with 18" wheels and good sport tires.

See if you can beat the dealer up on the Touring and let him know your concerns with the PAX and that you will have to spend an extra $1,500 to get rid of that junk. If the tread on the PAX tires is good, drive it till the tread wears out or you get a flat...whichever comes first. Remember, the PAX tires were typically only good for 25K to 30K miles.

Since the Touring is at a Honda dealership, ask if they would Depax as part of the deal. Chances are, they won't do it for liability reasons (see other threads on the topic).

The EXL is $2,000 less but has more miles. It also has the Plus One seat, which if you have lots of kids, might be nice...I wouldn't know.

Personally, I wouldn't be big on the NAV. My Touring doesn't have it so I can't say first hand, but factory NAV systems seem to leave much to be desired, especially for the extra cost.

I would probably go for the Touring but beat the dealer down a bit on price and/or the PAX. This assumes both have clean CarFaxes and are in similar condition.
 

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I'm glad everyone's all right, thats a great thing about the Ody. You don't hear about too many injuries and I've only ever heard of 2 deaths in accidents in the 3rd gen. Both were freak accidents and both made the news.....but thats something else. When it comes to buying a Touring I would not trust anyone "telling me" it didn't have PAX if they were trying to move one. Since you are coming from an 04, I'm guessing the 8th seat probably isn't much of an issue, however to me it seems as though you either use it all the time, or never. I'm one of the ones that never does, except twice and the only time I did carry 8 people was for about a mile and a half under conditions where it wasn't really necessary. Is gold the color you want for sure? Some people don't like the ivory interior (gets too dirty). Also, I don't ever remember hearing, but is the spare tire assembly the same for 2nd and 3rd gen? If it is you should consider hanging on to the tire and jack to put in the Touring, or sell separatly, which is a very common practice when a 3rd gen is totaled.
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Thanks everyone, I appreciate the well wishes for my family and the time you've taken to share your thoughts, opinions and experience.

@cntrtwnltd: 8th seat is not a big deal to me. It's just the four of us so the 8th seat would get used maybe twice a year. The rest of the time it'll either be in console mode or in the basement. I don't know about the jack similarities between the 2nd and 3rd generations. I do know that my 04 had the spare tire located in the floor between the 1st and 2nd rows. It was in the same place as the large in floor storage that the 3rd gen has.

Yes the color matters. Not to me, but to my wife. She's set on the gold car (the 04 was Sandstone Metallic). I've driven the same car for 5 years now (bought it used) and I hate it every time I get into it because I settled on a color that I didn't absolutely love. She loves it, so I'm stuck trying to buy a used Gold Ody. The things we do for love. :love:

@shall36: The Navi doesn't do a whole lot for me either. While the screen is significantly larger than my Garmin, it's in more of a heads down position than what I'm used to. I keep the Garmin in the left corner of the windshield so I can still keep a good eye on traffic when I glance at/interact with the GPS. I played with the Navi in a 2011 and immediately missed the convenience of touch screens. Entering an address with a joystick is not what I call easy.

Good point about trying to negotiate out the PAX. I hadn't considered that one.

@Roger: $17K!!! Wow that would be great. I'm hoping I'll get some extra credit for the major service I just did last month. Dropped in excess of a grand on service and new brakes etc. Nothing like paying the CC bill 15 days before another driver makes a dumb decision.


Both vehicles look to have clean carfaxes. The touring was a lease vehicle and the EXL looks to have been highway driven but has had some issues with the steering pump. Before I do anything, I'm going to ask Honda to run both vehicles in their database to see if there is any history in their maintenance systems.

The main draw for the touring is the lower miles (it's about one year less of use given my families driving habits of 11K/year.) and the fact that the car is a certified Honda. It would be nice to have the 12K/12mo warranty.

On a general note, I'm really ticked off at this whole ordeal. I had no car payments and a great car and one person's stupid decision took it all away. I'm now faced with the fact that I'll likely be financially out of pocket a fair amount of my own money to replace the vehicle and get the piece of mind that comes with having a well cared for vehicle. Fortunately I can afford this, but that doesn't make it right. Now I have to forgo other plans that I had that money targeted for or take on a monthly payment that I haven't had in quite some time.

I'm now starting to understand why there are so many lawyers. :mad:
 

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Glad to hear everyone in the family is okay.

My wife and I just bought a 2011 Touring. One feature that swayed us was the front/rear parking sensors. While you can add the rear sensors to a non-Touring, you cannot add the front sensors.

Why was that so important to us? Because we cannot see the front of the van as it is so low. In fact, we cannot even see any part of the hood. It is really a weird experience, though we love the van.

We figured that we'd spend a lot of money repairing the front end because we'd otherwise run into poles, walls, etc because we cannot see the front of the vehicle.

Separately, we also wanted all the other toys that come with it.
 

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You should be able to go out and buy an near-identical 2004 and not be out of pocket anything. That's how insurance is supposed to work...sometimes you have to fight for it. The fact you're upgrading means you'll be spending some extra money.

I didn't realize in your original post that the Touring had DVD/NAV so it seems to be a better overall deal. The EX-L seems to have had the typical steering/braking issues. I'm surprised there's bsically no history on the Touring...either they never serviced it...never had problems...or their dealer just didn't report it for some reason. It is certified so that should take care of any of those problems that may be present and just weren't fixed.

I'd go with the Touring and just plan to swap out the tires/wheels down the road. Certainly won't hurt to try and beat them up on price...but it seems like they've cut it quite a bit already. Auction value on it is around $22,000.

If you look at the carfax it's been bouncing around the auction a bit. This dealer has had it for at least a month and it was listed by one other dealer back in August and they must have sent it back to auction. Between the PAX and color...it's not an attractive vehicle to sell. If the PAX are fairly fresh I might not get too hard-core...but if they're worn I would beat them up pretty good.
 

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Looks like it was up for sale at a Honda dealer in Bedsford, NY. Then it looks like it made it to the current dealer.

Manheim auction values for a 2007 Touring w/ 41K miles is a hair over $20K with an estimated retail of $24,500.

I personally would start negotiations at $21K and see what happens. Look at it this way, if the dealer takes it to auction, he's going to get between $20K and $22K. He already has money in this thing and if he sells at auction, he has auction and transport fees to deal with. If he sells to you for $21K, he still gets to tack on his dealer fee, which puts him ahead. Of course, if he thinks he can sell it on the street for more, he'll hold off. If you have time, throw out the offer and let it sit until end of the month. He'd rather sell it to you for $21K than go back to the auction.
 

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EX-l vs Touring - Massachusetts

Glad your family is ok - we had a similar experience with a Nissan Quest, which got us into our first Ody. I see you are in MA. We just purchased an 07 EX-L with DVD/NAV, 49k from Boch Honda in Norwood (three days ago). Our trade was an 01 with 190k and a blown transmission, so worth next to nothing. We made out very well, just at $20k with tax, title, docs. included. Dennis Young was an excellent sales person - we are very happy. The 07 Nav has voice command, so you don't need to use a joystick. It also has a keyboard, but I haven't had to use it yet. Boch has two tan/gold EX-Ls on their website now.
There is also a very nice blue EX-L in Nashua at an Acura dealer under $18k that we looked at, as well as a gorgeous 06 Touring with Nav & DVD and 56k in Weymouth. It is silver with a black interior and depaxed. About $20k too. We should have bought that one, but it is an independent dealer and we wanted to go with a Honda dealer. If you have the time to make the trip - try the Norwood/Dedham Automile. There were some great vehicles there.
 
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