[MerpsMom]

It's finally time to do it. After reading--and forgetting, oh, I miss my mind--everything posted on this forum, here's my plan. Will someone give it the thumbs up or down? I have an '01EX.

I'll order Pioneer 1695's for both front and back, have someone install them. (I can't and am too lazy to try.) After a period of evaluation, I can add a sub-woofer if needed for better bass. I'm a classical fan, but like NPR as well, so would need a nice middle-of-the-road sound. Any suggestions that should change my thinking? You guys are absolutely the best at this. Thanx in advance for any help you can provide.

 

[blakeinhou]

Will the 1695's fit your rear speaker locations? It is my understanding that the rear speakers were 4" on 2001's and 6.5" on the 2002's. I put (4) 1695's in our '02 RES and they sound greatboth for music and movies. The bass is clear and and ample for my tastes, but not so deep that you feel it booming like you would get with a sub. For what it is worth, I sat in an 02 with a sub before it was delivered to its owner and played with the on/off button. No way did it sound as good with the stock speakers and a sub as my van with (4) 1695's. It sounded muddy to me, but as from posts I've seen, it probably needed some tweeking of the level knobs which is easy enough.

 

[sinbad]

Blake is correct: 2002's have 6.5 inch front and rear; I think the 2001's have 4 inch rears. So put the 1695's in the front and comparable quality in the rear of the 2001.

I put four 1695's in my 2002 and the improvement is astounding. I was missing half the music with the stock speakers!

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2002 TW EX; Weathertechs; Splash; 4X Pioneer 1695's; Hella Supertone Horns; Hitch w/ Transmission & Power Steering Coolers; 2001 Five-spoke Alloy Wheels.
2000 Honda CBR 929 RR

 

[shindog]

The others nailed the install issues. For the rear, many have had good luck with Pioneer 1086 (4"), very reasonable price. I haven't heard them, so can't comment. There are many other reputable brands to look at too.

I think your overall plan is solid; the 1695 will suit your tastes pretty well.

The kelton sub, based on what I hear about it and knowing its design, may not be good for voice intelligibility for NPR. I listen to NPR also and what's the guys name, (Gary Wortheimer?) has alot of lower fundamental tones in his voice. I'd think it would tend to make the sub sing (resonate) which may prove annoying. I can't say for sure, but just my gut feeling. I think you'd want a sealed enclosure sub with fairly low system Q (box tuning) to suit both your musical tastes and your NPR listening...

Just my two cents. Try switching the mains out first, and if you wanna go sub shopping, ping me and I'll be glad to try and help.

-SJ

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DEP '01 EX no-navi

 

[MerpsMom]

Thanx so much! Next step is to order the 1695's from H&A, and shop Circuit City for the others. Circuit City also told me they'd put in someone else's speakers. They do carry Pioneers, including the 1655's?, but not the 1695. I guess the 1086's are Pioneer also, but whatever I get, I'll do the 4", more's the pity.

Now, I'm ready to get this going.

[This message has been edited by MerpsMom (edited 10-24-2001).]

 

[Jim F]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by MerpsMom:
Next step is to order the 1695's from H&A, and shop Circuit City for the others. </font>

As far as I know, HandA doesn't carry 1695's.

Etronics.com has them for $79 and has great service.


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Jim
'01 GG EX w/stuff
'93 Nissan Sentra SE-R with more stuff

[This message has been edited by Jim F (edited 10-24-2001).]

 

[blakeinhou]

Wow-thats a good price for 1695's. I bought mine for slightly more and Autotoys.com, BUT they really get you on freight ($15-GROUND which they dont tell you up front), and I went through all kinds of problems to get what I paid for after being shipped lesser speakers. Just thought I would share that.

 

[MerpsMom]

I guess I'm not quite through yet. Just got back from Circuit City and Best Buy. CC wants $50. per pair to install others' speakers. BB wants only $32. BB doesn't have anything but Pioneer 1045's in 4", but they do have something called Cerwen for $94.

But here's another question: why can't you have 6-1/2" speakers installed in the back? Can't they just enlarge the hole as this gentleman suggested, or is he uninformed?

 

[shindog]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by MerpsMom:
I guess I'm not quite through yet. Just got back from Circuit City and Best Buy. CC wants $50. per pair to install others' speakers. BB wants only $32. BB doesn't have anything but Pioneer 1045's in 4", but they do have something called Cerwen for $94.

But here's another question: why can't you have 6-1/2" speakers installed in the back? Can't they just enlarge the hole as this gentleman suggested, or is he uninformed?
</font>

He's uninformed. 6.5" speakers simply will not fit in the back of a '99-'01, unless this guy is a real, real pro and will refabricate some panels.... A 5.25" will BARELY fit back there with some modification, but it is a very poor and tight fit. If you want a clean fit, go with a 4" in the rear.

Regarding install, go find an independent shop, not a big chain. They are more knowledgable, and you can get a better price IMHO (though ~$30 is about right for most shops). If you tell them you've researched this and you bring them the speakers, knowing that they will drop in very easily, I think they will help you out. The Pioneers up front are WAY easy for any installer to do; the holes line right up, there's very little to do but plug it in with the adaptor, trim the rain shield and screw the speaker in. Similar story in the rear, but no trimming.

The other speaker he suggested in Cerwin Vega; I'd recommend you stay away. You wouldn't be happy with the sound and they are overpriced at $94.

Be carefull; sounds like some wolves out there to get ya.

To make things easier for you, here's what I recommend:

1) buy your Pioneer TS-A1695 and TS-A1086 from www.etronics.com. Good prices. You might be able to squeeze lower by buying from other places, but for you, time is money. $79+$49.99+ship = good deal.
2) go to Best Buy and purchase the speaker harness adaptors, as shown in Chuck's pics.
Metra #72-7800; $4.99/pair. Get 2 sets; one for each set of speakers.
3) print out pics from Chuck, DLH2's and other installs, showing the finished product
4) open the yellow pages and find a good independent shop. Ask to see some CUSTOM install work to get an idea of whether they are any good. Any shop worth anything has a big portfolio of custom installs, with photo albums, etc.... Talk about your speakers, telling them you did some research and show them the pics you printed out. Ask how much they charge for labor on an hourly basis. I know even the BEST shops don't charge more than $100 per hour. I estimate a pro to do do this job in 20 minutes or less. They should charge you no more than half an hour's labor. So, I estimate a fair price is $50 for everything installed (max), very conservative estimate. Be nice and I think they will be impressed with your knowledge and do it for you cheap. If you negotiate well, I think $30-$40 is very fair to install both sets of speakers, esp. since you will provide the adaptors.

What do you think, too much work?

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DEP '01 EX no-navi


[This message has been edited by shinjohn (edited 10-24-2001).]

 

[MerpsMom]

Not at all, and a challenge to boot! I'm a small blonde English Major, been in sales/service/schmoozing for a lifetime, am respectful of others' abilities, patient, and just skeptical enough from past experience. What a good blueprint you've provided.

Here we go...now, and will post the outcome. Thanx again!

 

[gfawkes]

I'm planning on installing the 1695/1086 in my 2001 but I've been thinking...

I wonder what it would cost to order the rear left/right panels from Honda, with the 6.5 instead of the 4 inch holes and simply replacd the backs? The Honda Service manual show this on p. 20-58.

I got this idea because I like the 2002 middle row cup holder and was thinking of order and installing on my 2001.

...however, knowing Honda, these parts are probably quite expensive.

 

[Jim F]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by MerpsMom:
I'm a small blonde English Major</font>

I was a small blonde English Major once.

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Jim
'01 GG EX w/stuff
'93 Nissan Sentra SE-R with more stuff

 

[abyez]

In the TECH section, under AFTERMARKET ACCESSORIES, I just discovered the "6X9 in the rear hatch" by Dorhn Hanson. May I know where can I find the step by step instruction on how he did it?

I may want to try that for myself if my 2001 sub would not work with my '99 ody. Just in case.

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[mstaebo]

shinjohn (or anyone else who knows):

I've been following this thread closely because I'm planning to upgrade the speakers on my '02 EX-RES too. Would I follow the same instructions that you outlined for merpsmom, except that I would order 2 pairs of the 1695s from Etronics?

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Erika
'02 SS Ody EXL-RES
'95 Honda Accord LX

 

[MerpsMom]

The small blonde thing is somewhat of an inside joke.

On another forum for my industry--happily using this exact software--the English Major phrase is a running series of jabs at each other's backgrounds.

And just where were you stationed?

 

[blakeinhou]

Yes Erika-(4) 1695's will work and the rest of the instructions are the exact same as well as the adapters. One thing that was not mentioned was the baffles that Chuck used to make rain shields for the front speakers since you have to cut that out to fit the larger speaker in. Very easy to do-got those at Crutchfield.

 

[shindog]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by abyez:
In the TECH section, under AFTERMARKET ACCESSORIES, I just discovered the "6X9 in the rear hatch" by Dorhn Hanson. May I know where can I find the step by step instruction on how he did it?
</font>

Closest thing to "step-by-step", his photo gallery:

http://www.fototime.com/inv/0D9372C5F75B16A

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DEP '01 EX no-navi

 

[shindog]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by mstaebo:
shinjohn (or anyone else who knows):

I've been following this thread closely because I'm planning to upgrade the speakers on my '02 EX-RES too. Would I follow the same instructions that you outlined for merpsmom, except that I would order 2 pairs of the 1695s from Etronics?
</font>

Erica,
Yes, correct. I'd hoped to keep this really simple for Merpsmom (and you) by not mentioning other periphery stuff, but here goes...

Blake's comment on the rain shield is another thing that CAN be done, if you wish, but will require more installation time, and therefore money. Let me explain a little to both of you ....

There have been two uses of foam baffles mentioned here in this forum:

1) As a type of "enclosure" around the back of a speaker, to improve bass response of the speaker. This is actually recommended by many for the 4" Pioneer 1086 in the back of '99-'01 Odys.

Autotoys website link, click here

2) As a replacement to the rain shield over the front door speakers, as in Chuck's pics.

Having said that, is it worth the effort? I say it depends. For the DIYer, it's no big deal, and perhaps even fun to do. If you pay someone to do it, does it add value proportionally to its cost? I'm not so sure.

The reason I say is this: 99% of shops (even the best ones) will just cut out the rain shield and NOT replace it with anything. People here (in this forum) tend to be very meticulous about what they do (as am I!). I cut out the rain shields on my Ody and did I fabricate new ones out of baffles? No. Have I done so in the past? Yes. Do I think it is worth it to be done? Probably not.

The reason is simple. Rain shields really do not protect the speaker much from moisture. It's not like a large quantity of water is going to somehow splash on the speaker if you don't have them. Moisture is there; it'll cause the speaker to corrode unless you seal the speaker up completly. That's pretty much a fact. Now aftermarket speakers use more durable materials such as plastics and rubber, to not only make the sound better, but to withstand the elements too. Factory speakers usually have paper cones, with fabric or foam surrounds. Much more susceptible to the elements, thus auto manufacturers design in "rain shields" to help protect those cheapie things... My rec is forgo the foam rainshields in your cases. It doesn't make the sound any better, and I don't think you are gonna get much more life out of your speakers this way.

As far as use #1 is concerned (Merpsmom), you can get a little better bass response using the baffles back there. Is it gonna make a world of difference when you are listening up front? No. Rear seat passengers will probably like the sound a little better, but a 4" speaker just won't produce much bass; you won't hear it up front since your fronts will be SOO much stronger in comparison.

If you want to be super detailed and want it done this way, by all means, go for it. Order baffles from Crutchfield, print pics, and negotiate an install price. Maybe even consider doing it yourself as a weekend project, you might enjoy it.

Anyhow, sorry to be so wordy. Hope this helps you guys out.

-SJ

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DEP '01 EX no-navi

 

[blakeinhou]

Shinjon-great post! One thing I noticed but cannot explain is the use of baffles on the 6.5" speakers in the rear. I ordered 4 of them from Crutchfield with the intention of putting 2 in the front as rain shields and putting 2 in the rear as baffles. I can't explain it, but the 1695's in the rear do not sound as good with the baffles as they do without them. Im not a stereo genius and cant explain it, but the sound was muddy sounding. Maybe the cavity the speaker sits in is a better chamber I dont know.

 

[shindog]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by blakeinhou:
Shinjon-great post! One thing I noticed but cannot explain is the use of baffles on the 6.5" speakers in the rear. I ordered 4 of them from Crutchfield with the intention of putting 2 in the front as rain shields and putting 2 in the rear as baffles. I can't explain it, but the 1695's in the rear do not sound as good with the baffles as they do without them. Im not a stereo genius and cant explain it, but the sound was muddy sounding. Maybe the cavity the speaker sits in is a better chamber I dont know.</font>

OK, I'll try to explain. The design of the raw speaker component (driver) is what determines what type of environment or "enclosure" is best suited for optimal performance. Most car speakers, esp. those 5.25" and larger are intended for what's called infinite baffle use. What this means is that the mechanical parameters of the speaker make it such that you want a very LOW air "stiffness" behind the speaker. The IB is just the extreme case of an extrodinarily large enclosure. Anyhow, without getting too technical (and I could, if people are interested in hearing about thiele-small parameters, system Q, etc...) let's just say that modern car speaks in general need a big "enclosure" and that's exactly what a typical door provides. So the thing here is that the door panel acts as a baffle, preventing coupling of air in front of, and behind the speaker.

In the rear of the '02 ody, using the foam baffle as an enclosure won't work well for the 1695 or most 6.5" speakers. It adds too much air stiffness behind the speaker for its design point (tuning) and therefore sounds worse (particularly for bass). People refer to this type of sound as being "boxy". This cuts off the low end, and overemphasizes mid-bass to midrange.

Anyhow, the 4" Pioneer is a case where the speaker's parameters make it work well in a smaller enclosure. These speakers tend to have a low Qts (T-S parameter) and you'll get better control of cone motion and bass response as a result. This is also a function of the car's acoustic environment and transfer function, whereby the low end of a system which is tuned in such a way provides better emphasis on the low end, and MUCH more extended low F response. Bottom line here: this 4" was intended for more in-dash type applications, where the volume behind the speaker tends to be very cramped.

Have I lost anyone yet?

OK, back to work.

-SJ

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DEP '01 EX no-navi