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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
*update from earlier today, pulled spark plug from cylinder #1 and took photos, clearly burning oil. *

Ill start by saying we have a 2016 Odd with 57k miles. Backstory, We have had to have the transmission serviced 3 times for RPM surging when accelerating and an odd vibration at highway speeds which i later found out was the VCM. The first time they blew my wife off and said nothing was wrong. The 2nd time i took it, and made them do a test drive and they found that it did have an issue, they updated firmware and did a trans flush and the issue went away for about 9 months. It came back 9 months later, same issue, took it back, turns out the tech that did the flush put it several qts to much fluid, and that was causing the new issue. They drained the fluid (Oct 2019), it seems to be running normal until now Jan 1st 2020.

Driving home CEL flashing, car running really rough, loosing power ect. Pull over, turn car off for 10 mins, back on, CEL gone, runs fine. Took it to the dealer, they said no codes found, but did see that Cyl 2, 3 and 5 were misfiring, but said it was prob bad gas. I called BS as i had gotten gas since the issue and its still there, but since the CEL wasnt "on" at the time of dealer service, they said they couldnt do anything and told me to add some gas treatment. I found a TSB on the VCM system about rocker arms locking during VCM and sticking, which described my issue perfectly, but they dismissed it.

That brings me to today. Driving around 45mph, CEL flashing again and traction control light comes on. Same rough engine and RPM, loosing power. I bought a Blue Driver OBDII reader after the first time, and plugged it in. Shows P0301 Cly 1 misfire repeatedly, and not sure whats going on with Traction light. Shut car off, waited ,turned back on and this time the lights stay on, and car still runs rough. Dealer closed today and tomr is holiday, so ill have to wait until later this week to bring it in. Just trying to see if anyone has any clues, as the dealer is convinced nothing it wrong and even tried to charge me last time i brought it in even though i still am covered under the 6y/60k power train warranty.

On a side note, i noticed after the first issue of this, i was a qt low of oil, and i change my own oil so i know it was correct when i added it, and it seems to be burning it i assume, as i have no leaks in the driveway.
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It could be a faulty ABS/wheel speed sensor. I've heard alot of people say they had the same issue and it came up as that. The misfiring is a separate issue.

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #3
It could be a faulty ABS/wheel speed sensor. I've heard alot of people say they had the same issue and it came up as that. The misfiring is a separate issue.

Sent from my SM-N976V using Tapatalk
It's odd it would be faulty at the exact moment my cel comes on and having issues with burning oil/cylinder issues. But at this point who knows.
 

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Your engine is in limp mode and so the VSA is locked out. There's almost certainly nothing wrong with the stability control; the van is just telling you that it has been turned off because there is a serious problem with the engine (hence the Check Engine light and P0301 DTC) and it is being prevented by the engine computer from attempting full power. No full power, no need for stability control. I think the extra lit up VSA indicator is Honda's way of getting you to hit the panic button a little bit quicker and get whatever is wrong looked at sooner.

Given the looks of that spark plug, I'd say that it's pretty likely that VCM has just claimed another victim (in a van that "shouldn't" have that problem). Put that nasty spark plug back in the engine and let the dealer find it. Don't reset any codes either. Those are the first steps in getting Honda to help fix the engine.

Edit: Actually, since you are under warranty still, Honda may cover the entire repair for you. But regardless, DO NOT try to repair anything yourself. Your friendly neighbourhood Honda dealership needs to see your van running as badly as possible.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Your engine is in limp mode and so the VSA is locked out. There's almost certainly nothing wrong with the stability control; the van is just telling you that it has been turned off because there is a serious problem with the engine (hence the Check Engine light and P0301 DTC) and it is being prevented by the engine computer from attempting full power.

Given the looks of that spark plug, I'd say that it's pretty likely that VCM has just claimed another victim. Put that nasty spark plug back in the engine and let the dealer find it. Don't reset any codes either. Those are the first steps in getting Honda to help fix the engine.

Edit: Actually, since you are under warranty still, Honda may cover the entire repair for you. But regardless, DO NOT try to repair anything yourself. Your friendly neighbourhood Honda dealership needs to see your van running as badly as possible.
Yup, I put that nasty plug right back in and the CEL is still on and engine running rough. I just hope this new dealer doesnt try to bs this as another problem or something. The dealers here hate warranty work, and it's pulling teeth to get them to admit fault or cover cost of anything. The last dealer didn't even check the plugs, and tried to say bad gas and wanted $300 for a fuel test, and $75 for a diagnostic fee, all of which I declined and refused to pay. The literally told me that the cel had to be on for warranty work and a readable code, they didn't care if I had to limp it there or destroy the motor while doing it....
 

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Yup, I put that nasty plug right back in and the CEL is still on and engine running rough. I just hope this new dealer doesnt try to bs this as another problem or something. The dealers here hate warranty work, and it's pulling teeth to get them to admit fault or cover cost of anything. The last dealer didn't even check the plugs, and tried to say bad gas and wanted $300 for a fuel test, and $75 for a diagnostic fee, all of which I declined and refused to pay. The literally told me that the cel had to be on for warranty work and a readable code, they didn't care if I had to limp it there or destroy the motor while doing it....
Yup - all of that sounds exactly right. Your dealer isn't necessarily being stubborn just to be a pain. Honda's powers in the towers have written the warranty criteria to require an active DTC code (historical codes don't count) a lit Check Engine light and no evidence of an attempt to "tamper" (or like normal people call it, trying to fix it yourself). Limp it in if you can or have it towed in if need be. Don't grenade your own engine or make a hazard of yourself on the roads with a van that won't make power.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Yup - all of that sounds exactly right. Your dealer isn't necessarily being stubborn just to be a pain. Honda's powers in the towers have written the warranty criteria to require an active DTC code (historical codes don't count) a lit Check Engine light and no evidence of an attempt to "tamper" (or like normal people call it, trying to fix it yourself). Limp it in if you can or have it towed in if need be. Don't grenade your own engine or make a hazard of yourself on the roads with a van that won't make power.
Should I tell them about the spark plugs or show them the pics, or just not say anything? I know the plugs are not covered under warranty, but since it was the engine problem that caused it, I feel like they should cover them to be replaced.
 

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Should I tell them about the spark plugs or show them the pics, or just not say anything? I know the plugs are not covered under warranty, but since it was the engine problem that caused it, I feel like they should cover them to be replaced.
Go there and to begin with at least, play stupid. Pretend you haven't already seen the spark plug. Nothing beneficial will come of you being upfront about having already seen it.

Before you go, have a look at TSB 13-081 at this link.


It does not technically apply to your 2016 Odyssey but it does outline what the dealer is looking for and what should basically happen under the terms of your powertrain warranty if everything lines up right. If the dealer does not come up with this solution on their own, then you can show them the printout of the TSB and make them aware of the fact that you know what the fix should be. And the plugs should be covered.

Edit: On re-reading this, I think I should have been more clear. Under the TSB and warranty, Honda will cover replacing the spark plug on any cylinder showing a misfire code. They're not automatically going to change them all at their cost. I didn't mean to make it sound like all the plugs would be covered. So in this case, they'd pay for one spark plug. You might want to spring for the others, or at least for three more new ones to put good new spark plugs into cylinders 1 through 4.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks, that post has some good info. Funny, looking at the reference photos of the spark plugs in that service bulletin, there version of a bad spark plug looks way better than mine right now lol.
 

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Dropped off at dealer this morning, said it would be a few days before they got back to me. Also stated if it wasn't something engine related that is causing the cel I would be charge a diag fee of $175.
 

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if it wasn't something engine related that is causing the cel
What twisted logic! All the check-engine light codes are for the engine! And those that aren't are covered under an emissions warranty for longer than the 5/60 drive train warranty!

Once this is resolved, get a VCM disabling device and be done with this issue in the future forever...

-Charlie
 

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Ya
What twisted logic! All the check-engine light codes are for the engine! And those that aren't are covered under an emissions warranty for longer than the 5/60 drive train warranty!

Once this is resolved, get a VCM disabling device and be done with this issue in the future forever...

-Charlie
YA, that's what my take on it. I'm also worried seeing how bad the plugs were, what damage may have been done to my o2 sensors and cat converter...
 

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OUCH! And the VCM problems roll into the '16 models, great!

As per the pro posts above, force Honda to make good here. Document the heck out of this, get everything serviced and then install a Muzzle (VCM defeating device) and you'll never see these issues again.

We got our '16 EXL with 41k on it and I Muzzle'd it shortly there after, now coming up on 49k no issues to date. Transmission fluid swaps and front brake rotors/pads replaced (not using the crappy Honda parts!). These three things are the main items to manage/consider with this generation of Odyssey.

Good luck and keep us in the loop!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Update....

Dealer called me today, they say that cylinders 1, 2 and 3 are bad, needing spark plugs and for sure piston rings replaced. They are going to inspect it more once they get it opened more, but for now just the back 3 cylinders. All is covered under powertrain warranty as well.

On a side note, the service advisor said that it looks like the same issue as the older models had, and even though there isn't a tsb from honda yet, they have seen a large amount of 14 thru 16 year models with the same issues and the "upgraded" pistons and rings don't seem to help solve the issue. So once it's all over, I'm definitely going to get the Vcm disabled and hope it doesn't happen again.
 

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Update....

Dealer called me today, they say that cylinders 1, 2 and 3 are bad, needing spark plugs and for sure piston rings replaced. They are going to inspect it more once they get it opened more, but for now just the back 3 cylinders. All is covered under powertrain warranty as well.

On a side note, the service advisor said that it looks like the same issue as the older models had, and even though there isn't a tsb from honda yet, they have seen a large amount of 14 thru 16 year models with the same issues and the "upgraded" pistons and rings don't seem to help solve the issue. So once it's all over, I'm definitely going to get the Vcm disabled and hope it doesn't happen again.
Does it make sense if I say that I both feel bad for you and also very happy for you?

I'm super glad that the dealership you're working with isn't giving you any static and being pretty upfront with you about what they're seeing in your van and in others. I wish it didn't come to this for you. I wish it wasn't so predictable after seeing your first post.

Disabling VCM will absolutely prevent this from happening again. There's a few good options available out there and if you want to talk through making a selection, we can help with that. When you get your van back, it will have pretty much a newly rebuilt engine. You'll have to break the rings in again and having VCM disabled right from the get-go will help that process; you want all the cylinders firing evenly and consistently.

I hope it all continues to go smoothly for you. Keep us posted. 🙂
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks. I've seen a few options to disable, and I like the vcm tuner, the upgraded model that you don't have to adjust, as my wife drives it mainly and she doesn't want to have to mess with it.


If there are better options out there I'm open to those also.
 

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That's probably the best one out there. If you're comfortable with the price, it's the way to go.
 

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Not that I want to spend that much, but I guess it beats having to deal with all this again.
In that case, maybe the S-VCM controller would be more your speed. If the VCMTuner II is 100/100 in terms of functionality, the S-VCM controller is about 99/100. Opinions on how important the differences are will vary, but these two are much more similar than they are different.

They both disable VCM the exact same but the S-VCM has to be manually turned off for certain maintenance procedures like idle relearns, throttle body work or coolant replacement (it's not hard - you pull out its inline fuse). The VCMTuner II has an accelerometer built into it that lets it recognize when it's being warmed up at a standstill (like in a shop bay) and it shuts itself off. Otherwise they're pretty much interchangeable.

The S-VCM controller is a bit cheaper than the VCMTuner II.

 

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There are also resistance-based options like the Max Muzzler (made by our very own @maxud ) or the VCMuzzler II (made by @verbatim).

The Max Muzzler uses a potentiometer to adjust the readout the engine computer sees from the ECT1 sensor. The VCMuzzler II uses swappable resistors to do the same thing. You can PM either of these gentlemen here on Odyclub to get their best prices.
 
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