Hope the rubber sleeved pin works for you. I was rather impressed with the construction of that item; it didn't seem like it would deconstruct very easily even on bad roads, but then again I have never been to Waco. In my case, I have driven about 3,000 highway and local miles in about 5 mos. since I made the switch & rattle has not returned.

 

Interesting - I have never heard the rattle that is being discussed and only recently did a lube job on the caliper slides and noticed the rubber sleeve. The only thing I noticed after putting it on (vs off) is that the braking feel was not quite as good. Felt a bit more 'dead', if that makes any sense. Otherwise, no noise difference.

 

Here's another data point to muddy the waters. I have an '01 Ody with some of the typical front end noises (recently had all front strut mount pieces-parts refreshed which helped with some of the noises we were getting but not all, and now have a new intermittent rubbing-groan up front, but that's another story), some of which seem to be from caliper rattle. I tried replacing top pins with rubber-sleeved bottom pins (also replaced bottom pins with new ones) and, if anything, my rattle is worse...

I just picked up some .002 brass shim material to try next per suggestion by Jerry O. Will report back as to how this works.

 

Ugh. As I recall, on the rubber-sleeved pin, the diameter of the rubber portion slightly exceeded the diameter of the metal portion which ought to prevent metal-to-metal contact between the pin and the caliper holes through which it slides. Theoretically, that feature eliminated the rattle. It did in my case ... so far. In your case, it might be something other than the pins making a rattle. Are your control arm bushings okay? Especially the lower one. Maybe if you try the shims, and the rattle is still persistent, it is more evidence that your rattle is something other than the pins and thus the rubber-sleeved pins were doing their job after all.

 

I do beleive there are at least two sources of noises coming from my front end and, although my local independent Honda shop inspected my control arm bushings per my request and did not believe they required servicing, I did notice some cracking in the lower bushings while the van was suspended on jackstands during my pin swap. So, I'm not convinced fresh bushings wouldn't take care of some of the noise. However, the high frequency rattle portion of the noise that I am hearing does seem to go away if I apply the brakes a bit, supporting some sort of brake related noise. I say "seem" because I haven't found a long enough stretch of the particular sort of bumps that bring out the rattle to allow me to test this definitively.

 

rattle follow up . . .

greetings earthlings,

I believe the answer to why the pads stop rattling after replacing the caliper pins, is that greasing the pins allows the caliper to move freely and not stick in position after the brakes are applied. Whe the caliper pins are not well greased, the brake pads stick. This causes a bigger than normal gap between brake piston and pads, then it can rattle. Keep the caliper pins well greased and you will have not rattling.

RV

 

Keep the caliper pins well greased and you will have not rattling.

Absolutely correct RV. But from what every one who has only applied new grease says, the rattle comes back in less than 1000 miles. I'm not interested in re-greasing the pins every month, and want a long term solution. How often are you greasing the pins to keep the rattling away? And what grease are you using?

 

caliper rattle . . .

rayobot,

How long a greasing lasts may vary I think. Some drivers are very hard on the brakes, pads don't last very long. Others are very easy on their pads, lasting much longer. It may also depend on where in the pads life, new & thick, or old & thin, the pins are greased. How much grease get on the pins after they are inserted and does one add grease to the boot? If the rubber boots are cracked and worn, grease can get away, hence, greasing pins won't last very long.
I use Sil-Guard brake lubricant.

RV

 

Never heard of Sil-Guard, but heard good things about Sil-Glyde grease. Ford recommends their Motorcraft Silicone and Dielectric grease for my Mustang's guide pins, so I might try that next time.

 

Guys whatever you use, make sure its specifically a synthetic brake grease (usually looks like vaseline, clearish stuff) because petroleum will just burn off so it won't do you any good. Any automotive parts place can get you something worthwhile.

 

caliper rattle . . .

Yes, 6-speed,

It is Sil- glyde, I was mistaken. Not Sil-Guard.

Thanks,

RV

 

For those that had the caliper rattle, did they still rattle under braking? I would think that if it was the caliper, the clamping force while braking would keep it from rattling. I ask because my front end rattles even under braking. I replaced the complete strut/spring/bearing with a pre assembled package; the rattle went away for a wile but now its back. Its an '02 with 200K on the clock. I replaced all the front bushings recently, that helped some. I do get a clunking when I rock the steering wheel back and forth. Seems to be comming from the rack. I did the outer tie-rods at 90k but haven't done the inners. Not sure what the problem is. Any ideas?

 

How about get someone to rock the steering wheel back and forth while you are down there to check out the source of the clunk.

 

I may have more than one issue. I have done what you suggested and there is something clunking in the rack. However, it is a different clunk than the one I hear while driving. Going over rough roads there is definitely something loose or worn out. I am going to disconnect the swaybar links and see if the noise goes away - as soon as the snow melts!

 

Finally replaced my front pads and top pins today! We decided to move late last Fall, so every thing else was put on hold. Luckily I didn't loose the pads or new #23 pins in the move.

Yes, I diagnosed my rattle by going over a bumpy road, hearing the rattle, applying the brakes, and the rattle would go away.

Anyway, the #23 pins installed in the top spot well. I took the van out tonight for a short test drive and it sounds more solid, as in no rattling. Of course, with the new brake grease, I wouldn't expect it to rattle. I'll take it on some bumpier roads tomorrow to see if I can get it to rattle. And I'll see if the rattle recurs in a month or so.

 

I too have a front end rattle in my '03 Odyssey that I believe is the result of this caliper pin issue. (I have eliminated suspension issues and this rattle goes away upon applying the brakes gently, so I think the caliper area might be the culprit.) Question---have you had any problems with noise, brake pad wear or brake performance since you substituted your old upper pin with a new lower (rubber sleeved) pin? I am probably going to try your fix with a new Honda lower pin---seems logical. Thanks.

 

The front end of the Ody is on jack stands as I write this. I just installed a new set of pins to fix a rattling caliper. However the boots on both sides seem to be stretched out further than they were with the old pins.

With the boots in a relaxed position, there was a gap of about 3/8" between the caliper flange and the head of the pin. The outer bolt threads barely reached the head of the pin. Dimensions of the new and old pins are identical. The boots look they will soon pull off one end or the other.

Why would the boots be stretched out like that?

 

"The front end of the Ody is on jack stands as I write this. I just installed a new set of pins to fix a rattling caliper. However the boots on both sides seem to be stretched out further than they were with the old pins.

With the boots in a relaxed position, there was a gap of about 3/8" between the caliper flange and the head of the pin. The outer bolt threads barely reached the head of the pin. Dimensions of the new and old pins are identical. The boots look they will soon pull off one end or the other.

Why would the boots be stretched out like that? "



Now this is from memory and I may not fully understand what you are describing, but it seems I recall having a similar experience and it turned out to be that I had applied a bit too much caliper grease to the pins which didn't allow the pins to slide in completely, also recall that the at least one of the pins seemed to want to push back out due to what I believe was pressure from an air pocket trapped behind the pin. The tighter tolerance of the new pin with fresh grease created a seal trapping the air as I pushed the pin in. Hope this helps.

 

Thanks for your quick reply.

My problem is that I had to pull the pin out to get it to mate with the outer bolt. Then when I tightened the outer bolt, it pulled the pin out even more. The pin now seems out too far, and stretched the boot with it.

I wish I had measured it before, but I'm sure the pin was in deeper than it is now. I don't like this uncertainty when it comes to the brakes...

 

I assume you didn't replace your brake pads. The pins will travel out of the caliper bracket as the pads wear. Do the pads still have some life?

 

This issue has been pondered for years, beginning in 2001 or2002. Our '01 came with the rattle and Honda replaced the calipers and the rattle was still there. The dealer said it was simply necessary to have that looseness for the brakes to operate properly. I then went home and wrapped each pin with some brass shim stock (I do not remember that there was any rubber on the '01 pins) and the noise went away for good. I am one who relives the caliper pins at every tire rotation, so the braking action was always smooth and pad wear perfect. The old thread may not exist in the archives, since there was some sort of system reset that caused prior stuff to disappear. I had posted 700 times and my count was reset to zero,not that it matters.
Jerry O.

 

Right, I didn't change the pads, nor even remove them. They have about 50% wear left (at least 1/4").

That was a good question because in theory the caliper should go back in the same position as before relative to the caliper bracket, with the same pads.

I secured the bolts last night but left the van on the stands. Thought about this all night and will have another look today. Can't shake the feeling that I'm missing something, but the Honda design is fairly simple and I've had the pins out before to lube them with no problem.

 

Looking into this thread, talk of caliper pins and rattle... Sil-glyde (NAPA BK7651351). I did my brakes last night. I lubed the pins both sides with silglyde. Used Akebono pads that already had a shim on it. After installing and doing the bed-in procedure, noticed some smoke from both front wheels. It was burning rubber/plastic smell. I have replaced pads before on Camry with Akebono. No smoke. The only difference this time on the Ody was this grease.

I will take one side apart and recheck if everything still looks normal. No problems with brake or anything. Did not drive it this morning though. This has not happened to me before.

By the way, after tip from 6-speed, I got the pins and rubber boots from Oreilly's. Pins look exactly as described in post 1 and rubber boots in post 17. There were 4 boots and 2 pin sleeves (I guess 1 sleeve for each side pin, not sleeve for each pin on same side) ...

Anyone also see smoke with this brand or any other at least sometimes? Is this smoke normal? Or using this grease did that?

 

After installing and doing the bed-in procedure, noticed some smoke from both front wheels. It was burning rubber/plastic smell.
Anyone also see smoke with this brand or any other at least sometimes? Is this smoke normal? Or using this grease did that?

Did you replace the rotors or turn the old rotors? If you install new rotors, it's usually a good idea to clean off the protective coating with brake cleaner prior to installation. Sil-Glyde should not cause your brakes to smoke unless perhaps you packed in so much grease that the pins can't slide.

 

The smoke is probably from the new pads overheating after the bedding. The Ody is a heavy beast, and the brakes are only just big enough for it. So the brakes got hotter than after the same procedure on your other cars.

I too use Syl-Glide to lube the pins. I don't think that's the source because the pins are far away from the friction part of the brake and the heat it produces.

 

Thanks Dave and 6-speed. I replaced with new slotted rotors and new pads. I did clean rotor surface with brakeleen but maybe some soap water would have been better after that. This evening I opened the caliper again and cleaned/regreased the pins on one side. Left the other to test the difference. The smell is there still but reducing. Will check again tomorrow after 1 day of normal use... These rotors/pads seem to run hotter or maybe it seems like that since I am testing.

 

Very helpful thread indeed. Everything looks ok. No more smokey smell or overheating. Still a bit hot but will check on it. Pins move freely and calipers are free. No sticking. Smooth and quiet braking. Just need to deal with rear shoes. When I replace my LCAs and end links, will clean and regrease pins. Thank you, thank you.

 

Empirical data. Driver side felt hotter than passenger side. Got a IR thermometer. The temp range was 300+ both sides. Driver side was always 40 deg higher. Took out the caliper and cleaned out the pin and brackets completely and regreased. Now its smoother and 200-220 deg range. Passenger side is 20 deg higher. Will clean it out later. Now both sides are less than 275 deg. I think OEMs are in 200 deg range.

According to Stoptech site, new rotors do smell and smoke until bed-in is completed. It says the procedure step is 10x. And repeat process 2x is even better. I am not sure if I completed the burn-in step 10x yet. Will do it again this weekend. At least both rotors run cooler now.

Good rotors and great pads. Very quiet.

 

Had this problem with parts person also. Might want to check with a honda tech. The top pin (#14) is without sleeve and only bottom (#23) is with sleeve. Although one post here mentioned taking the bottom and putting on top, I stayed with manufacturer spec (top = no sleeve, bottom = sleeve). If you order OEM bottom, it comes with sleeve. If aftermarket, as in Oreilly's, the pin set box comes with both pins (no sleeves) $10, and rubber parts box comes with boots and sleeves $4.

As for NDNV, I am guessing he went with OEM parts rather than aftermarket but not sure if he meant buy extra bottom pin and use on top. I would have paid that few bucks extra to get OEM bolts if I planned it out ahead and took the time.

Come to think of it, I just took off ones on Accord yesterday and both top and bottom pins looked the same. I need to find out more as it appears to have the top pin on the bottom too. I will check on the net. Go figure.

 

***snip***

...and rubber parts box comes with boots and sleeves $4.

***snip***

I too went OEM for the pins but aftermarket for the pin boots (not available from Honda, except with the caliper rebuild kit). The sleeves that came with the boots were much shorter and thinner than the sleeves mounted on the OEM pins. I recommend the OEM pins with the sleeves installed.

I also recommend replacing the pin boots after several years. My originals looked in good condition but had lost most of their elasticity. The new ones grip much stronger onto the caliper groove. They will keep water out much better.