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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
[warning dealer rant ahead]

let me just start by saying that I know I have a negative outlook on dealers in general. I have been screwed over so many times by any brand of dealer in my area that I am completely jaded and I know it skews my view of things. But some things are just so blatant that they make me see red.

My power steering has the "steering wheel is hard to turn quickly at low speeds" problem (most recent warranty extension) I have been ignoring it, figured I would eventually put in an aftermarket pump and new reservoir when I had a chance, but since it was a warranty extension, why not just let Honda do it. :huh: :DD

So I took it to the dealer today, explained everything, the service writer guy asked me like 6 times if I was sure I had the problem, I said yes, I am sure, I pulled out the TSB 10-069 and explained that I went over it and my steering has the same issue a friend of mine had and he had his replaced and his is better, they agreed to replace it. I also needed a state inspection done, he agreed they could do that no problem.

I leave the van and go to work (I work about 1/2 mile down the road from the dealer). My phone rings about 20 minutes later, BIG SURPRISE!, the dealer has $500 worth of additional work that needs done to my van. I am laughing at this point, in the 10 times I have taken my van to this dealer, they ALWAYS find at least $500 worth of stuff that MUST BE DONE OR I WILL DIE driving it.

The service guy lists off his list of **** that I need to pay a 2000% markup for, and he gets to power steering fluid flush $200. I am like WTF :huh: :huh: ???

You are doing TSb 10-069 and the flush is part of it. He says no it isn't, I say, I have the TSB in front of me let me read it to you. I get to the detail of he key points in the flush and he says no, the TSB does not say that :huh: :huh: :huh:

I stop arguing because I am not getting anywhere, I tell him to perform the warranty stuff and don't do anything that will cost me money.

I call Honda North America, explain my situation, explain TSB 10-069, the lady says yes, I agree with you, and the dealer is wrong, they need to perform the flush as part of the TSB. She said they would call the dealer.

About 1 hour later I get a call back, Honda North America telling me that TSB 10-069 has bee replaced by TSB 11-039 and Honda NO LONGER pays for the flush. If I want a flush done, I need to pay the dealer. My guess is the dealer told Honda I needed 11-039 and not 10-069, but no where can I find explicitly written that the 11-039 replaces 10-069 (actually when you read 11-039 it only applies to the 2005 model, mine is an 07, and 10-069 applies to all 05-10)

Which is it? which TSB is really in effect? Apparently it depends on the person you talk to.

Now here is my rant - HOW THE **** DO YOU REPLACE A PS PUMP AND NOT FLUSH ALL THE FLUID??? Honda, you suck, and you are your own worst enemy. Your crappy pump needs new fluid or it will just fail again, the cost TO YOU is very minimal to perform the flush. Having your dealer rip me off to the tune of $200 WHEN THEY ARE ALREADY REPLACING THE ****ING PUMP is CRIMINAL!! Charge me $20 if you want to be fair about it, you are already paying for 90% of it to be done, the labor is spent, what are a couple pints of fluid??? But noooo, to save $10 on each one and ensure it will fail again, you won't replace the fluid.

I am so furious at the blatant thievery of the dealer AND north American Honda on this issue that I can scream.

I am just asking for a fair deal, not to pay a 2000% markup on a service that is needed when a new pump goes in under warranty.

I think this Ody will be my first and last Honda, the entire Honda experience has left a very bad taste in my mouth, the taste of just ****ing me over for the pure sport of it and for their own pleasure. If I wanted that, I would have bought a BMW....
 

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Wait... Virginia? So you're not out in the middle of nowhere, right? There are no other Honda dealers within driving distance? Last time I drove through VA (my brother lives in the Eastern Shore) we saw Honda dealerships in virtually any town big enough to have a church.

Find one that's more accommodating, and use them for your services henceforth. These yahoos you're using don't deserve your patronage.

To address your complaint: Call AH back, and express your outrage, politely but firmly, because performing the service without replenishing the fluid is asinine. They'll take care of you... or tell them you'll make your complaint public and mention it to anyone and everyone that may have a dog in this fight (NTSB, BBB, AAA, whoever and whatever).
 

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I am confused: 10-069 is Safety Recall: Master Cylinder May Be Leaking, which is the brake recall. How does it relate to 11-039 Warranty Extension: Steering Wheel Is Hard to Turn at Low Speeds? These are TSBs for two different systems and problems... While 10-069 requires the brake fluid to be replaced, as it may contain air because of the problem, 11-069 does not, it only requires that the PS tank be refilled.

If you told Honda you were having work done on 10-069 then they would agree with you that the TSB includes replacing the fluid, but as the dealer is doing work on 11-039, the TSB does not.

Nicolas
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I meant to type 10-076 and not 10-069

So many TSBs on this thing they are confused in my mind.

10-076 was apparently replaced by 11-039, but nowhere in writing can I find that and they seem to be different to me.

Wish I could edit the original, but looks like I can't
 

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It makes sense now... :)

As to the fluid, 11-039 does not say to replace the fluid, but it provides an extended warranty. :-/ There is nothing in 11-039 that mentions it replacing 10-076 but since 10-076 did not provide an extended warranty, Honda and the dealer can sit on 11-039 and tell you that what is covered by the extended warranty is what is I that TSB, and nothing else... :-/

Myself I would get the pump replaced under warranty and get the fluid done at an independent, both for cost and so as not to give the dealer more of my money.

Nicolas
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
nicomtl - yep, that is exactly how I am seeing it. I just flushed the fluid myself.

Honda North America sucks for changing the procedure to not include the fluid change. That is a crappy thing to do as ANY pump needing changed under warranty extension will need new fluid.

The dealer sucks because they are there doing the work anyway and want to change the FULL LABOR rate to replace the other couple pints of fluid. It is a clear rip off. It should be about half price if they want to charge me for it because they are in there doing part of it any way.

I just hate the blatant rip off. Happens everywhere and its the reason I don't ever want to take any of my vehicles anywhere to have work done. Even most of the indy shops around me are in on the money grab. The only way left to get an honest shake anymore is to get one of these mechanics that moonlight to just do work on the side for cash.
 

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I read this thread earlier in the week. Already had an appointment to have the oil changed (free coupon or else I would have done it myself). I mentioned that the steering felt heavy etc and asked about the recall. My van is a 2005 touring w/ 90k. They said "No problem" after looking it up on the computer. This is not a CPO or anything with an extended warranty. I picked it up 2 hours later. Fresh oil change, fresh new PS pump and fluid. I cant guarantee that they flushed the system but I didnt ask. No charge. :) The dealer was White Allen Honda in Dayton Ohio. Very pleased with them so far! They comment about the 18" wheels instead of the Pax though. Too bad it was daylight so they couldnt see the HID kit!
 

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...I mentioned that the steering felt heavy etc and asked about the recall...My van is a 2005 touring w/ 90k...They said "No problem" after looking it up on the computer...
Same experience for me with my 07 EX-L. It might have been timing...I took mine in the beginning of December.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
My local dealers are all asshole thieves, there is no mistaking it and I would have to drive an hour + one way to a non-local dealer to avoid it.

The area in which in I live has people with far more dollars than sense and most people that go to the dealer don't ever question anything they are told. Northern VA is the best place in the world to be in the auto repair business. You can lie cheat and blatantly steal and have an endless stream of customers.

I have had similar problems with the Toyota dealer (right across the street from the Honda dealer) and I have had similar problems with the local suzuki motorcycle dealers. Money is just too easy for them to come by, because everyone that comes to these dealers for service is just stooopid with regards to vehicle requirements. Idiots here still pay $300 for a 30k mile service on a modern Japanese vehicle (at 30K all you need to do is change the oil and rotate the tires)

I had a friend pay another local honda dealer here $1200 for brakes on an accord. 4 rotors, pads all around, fluid flush, and labor. Something i could myself in 2.5 hours with $200 worth of parts from rockauto (better than honda parts IMO). It is not just this one dealer, it is the entire local metro area.
 
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