Honda Odyssey Forum banner

1 - 20 of 41 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Sorry about the long post… here’s a write-up I just did on adjusting my valves. I am a novice, so the information below is just my experience and opinions. I just wanted to share my story… maybe it will help you if you’re planning on doing this yourself as well, or be entertaining to read if nothing else.



I just finished up a valve clearance adjustment on my 2005 Odyssey EX-L (VCM). I’ve never done a valve adjustment on a car before, but I have done it many times on my 1975 CB750 Honda motorcycle. I figured this should be familiar territory… I was mostly wrong.


It was a lot more work than I had anticipated. I’m glad I did it, but it literally took me all day. I think over half the job was just getting everything removed (and then put back together). I really had to wrestle with those wire connectors. The rear coil connectors were a real pain, as were a couple of the connectors on the side of the intake manifold. Maybe there’s a trick to disconnecting them that I’m not aware of… I just squeezed the release tab as hard as I could and wiggled the connector back and forth until it came off.


The valve adjustment is an exercise in extreme patience, but I was expecting this. The biggest challenge is getting the valve clearance correct after tightening the lock nut. Sometimes you get lucky and it doesn’t change, other times it gets tighter… and other times it’s looser after tightening the nut (it’s not consistent). Again, maybe there’s a trick that I’m not aware of, but this was similar to my experience on my motorcycle… you just have to play with it until it’s correct. Expect to spend a lot of time doing this.


Most of my valves exceeded the clearance specifications – none were under (car has 101.6K miles)… with the rear bank having the most (0 .016” measurement on the exhaust, and 0.013” on the intake – on average for the rear bank). The Front was better with two of the front cylinder’s exhaust valves within spec and most of the intakes were around 0.011” – 0.013” as I recall.


I used the “interference” method to measure and set the clearances. Basically, I would work my way up in feeler gauge sizes until I couldn’t get one to fit… then noted the size of the previous feeler gauge. I’ve read posts were they say it should be just a slight tug, but I’m not able to get consistent readings when I try it that way. The challenge I see with the limited space and visibility is sometimes it feels tight but you don’t realize you’ve got the gauge at a slight angle. The best suggestion I’ve read on the “feel”, is it should stutter/shudder when you pull it.



This is what worked well for me:


When setting the intakes (0.008-0.009”) I set it so it was pretty tight on the 0.009” gauge (I could pull it, but it was hard to push it, and it would feel stuck sometimes when I inadvertently had the gauge at a slight angle). I then confirmed the 0.010” wouldn’t fit… or I could just wedge it in a little bit. I then checked the 0.008” to see if I could get the stutter/shudder feel (make sure it wasn’t too tight).


When setting the exhaust (0.011” – 0.013”) I again set it so it was pretty tight on the 0.012” gauge – but not quite as tight as I did on the intakes (I realize that’s somewhat ambiguous) but I would get a feel for it so that after I set it, the 0.013 would just fit in, the 0.014 wouldn’t, and the 0.011 would only have a slight stutter/shudder.


Some things worth noting:


The service manual doesn’t explain how to actually remove the valve covers. It tells you to remove the coil wiring harness bolts, but it doesn’t explain that this is only to give you some extra room to try and slip the valve cover underneath it (at least I didn’t see how you could actually remove the wire harness). This makes it challenging to get the valve covers off and back on… especially the rear one with the VCM hardware. I really had to wrestle with the rear cover and I was getting worried I was damaging something in the process. I removed a wiring bracket from the front the engine to help give myself more room on the front bank.



There are a few plastic wire holder clips you need to remove. I broke two of them before I wised up and used an angled needle nose pliers to squeeze the tabs from behind.


The TDC indicator is challenging to view (I could only view it with a small shop mirror), but after turning the crank a few times I got a feel for when a TDC was approaching. The crank gets really hard to turn and then right after that it requires a little less force. It’s at this point I would stop and look at the indicator, and I was usually close… with just a couple of small turns required to get it to line up on the mark. I left the spark plugs in... [FONT=&quot]but I think the resistance is mostly due to valve spring forces, so I suspect the same feel would be there even with the plugs removed.[/FONT]


The service manual shows a picture using a mirror to measure and adjust the rear bank exhaust tappets. I found using a mirror very difficult, and I would only use it to check every now and then to confirm what I could feel. I found that if I pushed my forehead on the back edge of the engine compartment/hood interface, I could see the top of the tappet so getting a short screwdriver to adjust the tapped wasn’t too bad. I would use both hands to feel around and guide the gauge in. It was difficult, but after a while I got the hang of it.


Replacing the spark plug oil seals in the valve covers was tough… I ended up using a large flat head screwdriver and a wooden shim to carefully pry them out. It worked, but took a lot of time and I couldn’t avoid marring the bottom surface (I was able to not mar the sides, which I believe is the critical sealing area.) I also used an old seal to help drive in the new seal.


I’ll try to post a couple of pictures.

Chris
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
Thanks for posting - I own the same model & year and have been thinking of doing the adjustment. It's at 83k miles but valve noise is becming more audible every single day. Looking forward to the pics.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Here are a few pictures... I didn't take that many.

I covered up the intake ports with a couple sheets of shop towels to prevent anything from falling in there.

You can see how the wiring harness just sits there and you have to work around it.

I also have a picture with the bolt I removed (to remove a wiring bracket) to move the front harness a little more (screwdriver pointing to the bolt).

I also included a picture of the mouse nest I found.:)
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
This looks way more difficult that I previously thought.

Did you have to replace the valve cover seal(s) with a new one? my biggest fear is oil leak...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,116 Posts
I have done many valve adjustment in many cars over the years but I need to ask a pro (or anyone) a few basic questions:

1. Is valve adjustment needed in the 3rd Gen Odyssey at all?
I thought it is self-adjusting and maintenance-free?

2. For those who adjusts your valves at 100K or so, what did you find?
Are the valves still within specs?

Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
60 Posts
I have done many valve adjustment in many cars over the years but I need to ask a pro (or anyone) a few basic questions:

1. Is valve adjustment needed in the 3rd Gen Odyssey at all?
I thought it is self-adjusting and maintenance-free?

2. For those who adjusts your valves at 100K or so, what did you find?
Are the valves still within specs?

Thanks!
re. #1, "inspect valve clearance" is maintenance sub item 4.
I believe the owner's manual also says something like "adjust the valves if they are noisy"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
This looks way more difficult that I previously thought.

Did you have to replace the valve cover seal(s) with a new one? my biggest fear is oil leak...
Yes, you're suppose to replace the valve cover gaskets and the two intake manifold gaskets. You also need some Hondabond (or equivalent permatex) for two spots on the rear valve bank. I also replaced the spark plug tube oil seals and the seals/grommets around the valve cover bolts.

I suspect if you're an experienced mechanic, or have done this a few times before, it's pretty straight forward. Otherwise, I don't think this is worth doing yourself for the first time (like I just did) if your goal is just to save some money. The quote I got from the dealer was around $250... probably less from a good local mechanic. The gaskets/seals cost me $110 (including shipping) and I purchased a couple of tools (nice set of angled feeler gauges and an offset/angled 10mm wrench at Sears). Add in the $18 for the Hondabond and I really only saved $100 for a long stressful day of working hunched over the engine. I'm glad I did it, from a personal accomplishment standpoint, but I'm not sure it made financial sense. If I screwed something up, this could have ended up costing me a lot more.

If you're like me, and you want to DIY because you enjoy doing this stuff, and want to prove to yourself you can do it, and also to get a little satisfaction on saving a few bucks (and not feeling like you're getting taken at the dealership)... then go for it, it's definitely doable.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
I have done many valve adjustment in many cars over the years but I need to ask a pro (or anyone) a few basic questions:

1. Is valve adjustment needed in the 3rd Gen Odyssey at all?
I thought it is self-adjusting and maintenance-free?

2. For those who adjusts your valves at 100K or so, what did you find?
Are the valves still within specs?

Thanks!
The valves/tappets are not self adjusting (they are the screw/locknut type), and one of the maintenance minder codes is to check/adjust valve clearances. In my case, this maintenance minder happened around 100k (I think the valve clearance and timing belt minder may actually be the same minder message - I don't recall off the top of my head).

For me, only two cylinder's exhaust valves were within spec. All the other intake and exhaust valves were over spec (around .002 to .005" more than spec). I was surprised by this as I thought that the valves normally wear into the head more than the shaft/tappet wears... and I was expecting them to be under spec. I briefly talked to my dealer mechanic about this and he mentioned that was normal.

I would also like to know what measurements others are seeing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
180 Posts
My 2009 touring makes a clicking or tapping noise everytime I press on the gas going over 40 mph. Would this be a symptom from a lose valve or valves that have gone out of spec?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
ibuyufo how many miles on your 2009 ?

My sisters 2008 doesnt make noise hers has 110K miles, im about to check all her valves for clearance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
180 Posts
ibuyufo how many miles on your 2009 ?

My sisters 2008 doesnt make noise hers has 110K miles, im about to check all her valves for clearance.
Hi LT1,

My van has a little over 60k miles on it now. I think it started making that sound around 38 or 45k miles ago.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
219 Posts
My 2009 touring makes a clicking or tapping noise everytime I press on the gas going over 40 mph. Would this be a symptom from a lose valve or valves that have gone out of spec?
Sounds like detonation. Valves would make noise all the time.

Detonation is typically linked with poor gas, gas with inadequate octane, carbon build-up in the combustion chambers, or something causing a hot spot in the combustion chamber.

Try higher octane gas as a start. Also consider fuel system cleaning.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
193 Posts
My 2009 touring makes a clicking or tapping noise everytime I press on the gas going over 40 mph. Would this be a symptom from a lose valve or valves that have gone out of spec?
What is the "eco" light doing when this happens? When it goes out a valve train that was idle is suddenly put back to work.

Does the noise continue or is it momentary ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
219 Posts
Any detonation would be detected by the knock sensors and trip a CEL.
Assuming the knock sensor is functioning correctly. Does anyone have a better theory as to the knocking? If all were functioning properly, he wouldn't have any noises like that. :DD

The system should advance timing to the point of knocking and then back off...this is how they get the most power out of newer motors. Point being that detonation isn't always going to trip a code.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,116 Posts
...
For me, only two cylinder's exhaust valves were within spec. All the other intake and exhaust valves were over spec (around .002 to .005" more than spec)...
Wow,

So at 100K miles, most of the valves were out of specs?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Wow,

So at 100K miles, most of the valves were out of specs?
Yeah, but I don't believe 0.002" to 0.005" out of spec is a lot (although, I don't really know what's normal.) I was thinking that wasn't too bad for 100k miles.

Anyone else have measurements on what they're seeing?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
180 Posts
What is the "eco" light doing when this happens? When it goes out a valve train that was idle is suddenly put back to work.

Does the noise continue or is it momentary ?
The eco light turns off when I press on the gas. When I'm just cruising the eco light stays on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
I opened up my van this weekend to fix the tapping sound that bugged me to no end. A couple of observations that I'd like someone's opinion on:

1- The rear bank is a struggle with straight feeler gauges. I broke down and bought the bent (angled) ones today. Hopefully they will make the job easier.

2- On the front bank exhaust side (cyl 4 and 5), I feel a very slight play on the rocker arms - not sideways but if I pull it up, they give just a tad. This is as opposed to the ones on Cyl 6 which are tight and snug. No motion at all. Wondering whether that may be the cause of the tap?!!!

Anyone else having the same problems?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
valve job

i also noticed a little play in cylinder 5 even while the TDC was in different numbers.

I am in the middle of my valve job. finished adjusting the valves last night and had to adjust 2 of the 6 cylinder valves.
it took about 3 hours to disassemble everything. Couldn't have done it without firstmodelyear's write up and ericthecarguy's videos.
i don''t have much new insight to add, so here are a few:
1. definitely remove spark plugs. i found two plug cylinder seals broken and oil in those plugs.
2. there's no way i could've removed the rear valve cover without taking apart the plastic shield on the rear wiring bank. i used two large flathead screw drivers to pry the tabs and force them apart.
3. have a tablet with you to review the how to videos as you go.
4. get long and angled gap testers. i only had short, 4 inch, straight ones so i improvised and bent the ones i needed. would've been so much easier...
5.have all your tools ready and invest in new ones before embarking. see the how to video from ericthecarguy and get his tools, namely bent needlenose pliers, extra long ratchet extension,etc and definitely get a telescoping mirror,
6. get a couple of bottles of brake cleaner. my valve covers were caked with a thin layer of built up oil, so i cleaned hosed the down with a garden hose and left them to dry in the sun before reassembly.
7.i saw a bit of sludge and dried patches of oil, especially in the front cylinder bank. I called my mechanic for advice about cleaning and he told me to leave it alone, proceed with the valve job, reassemble, run engine cleaner treatment, and do a few oil changes to get the sludge out. attempting to clean the engine manually will dislodge the gunk and damage the engine.

Here's some background info: the car has 160 thousand miles. Seems to run fine, but have noticed very low mgp, around 12 combined, so took it to my very reliable mechanic. Diagnostics showed engine misfires in two cylinders. He recommended that i check the valves, so here i am.

Half time is over. now for the fun part of putting it all back together. Wish me luck.
 
1 - 20 of 41 Posts
Top