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Discussion Starter #1
Hello All - HELP
Night before last as I was driving home the CEL started flashing and van started running kinda rough at idle (at stop lights) but ran ok as I gave it gas. I got home and let it sit overnight.
I started it up yesterday and it ran fine, went to the car wash and as I was leaving the CEL started flashing again but it was running ok but didn't feel smooth like before. I stopped in at an AutoZone to have them check it.
They said cylinders 4 & 5 were misfiring. I came back outside and started van and it ran fine with no issues.
I thought ok I'll just change the plugs. That store didn't have the NGKs in stock and as I was going to another store that did have them in stock (about 20 miles away) the van started running real rough and died on the highway (luckily I was in the right lane as I getting ready to take the exit), managed to get it started but ran real rough and moving very slowly. took the exit but couldn't make it uphill on the exit. It would start but run very rough like it was running on 2 cylinders. It would struggle and die as soon as I put it in gear.
Waited 2 hours for a tow truck to get van back home.
This morning went and got the NGK plugs and changed the front 3 (4,5,6) since they said 4 & 5 were misfiring.
Van started fine but a few mins later the "Check VSA" light came on.
Shut it of for about 30 mins and started again no more VSA light.
I took it for a test drive and it started running real slow like it didn't have any power, so I brought it back home and parked it.
Any suggestions on what to check ?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Could be a million different things. We need to know the CEL codes, mileage, etc.
08 Ody Touring 173,500 miles - I'm guessing they were the original plugs (I got the van at 93,000)

codes no and description from Autozone
P305 misfire No 5 cylinder
P304 misfire No 4 cylinder
P300 random misfire
P401 egr insufficient flow detected
Code p305 indicates that cylinder 5 had too many misfires within a predetermined period time

The above is what Autozone gave me when they checked it out

Any thing else you need pls let me know
 

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First thing I would clean out the EGR valve then see what happens
 

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08 Ody Touring 173,500 miles - I'm guessing they were the original plugs (I got the van at 93,000)

codes no and description from Autozone
P305 misfire No 5 cylinder
P304 misfire No 4 cylinder
P300 random misfire
P401 egr insufficient flow detected
Code p305 indicates that cylinder 5 had too many misfires within a predetermined period time

The above is what Autozone gave me when they checked it out

Any thing else you need pls let me know
Now that’s what we needed :)
I would address the EGR code first.
Simple first step is to check if the EGR valve is working/clogged.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Now that’s what we needed :)
I would address the EGR code first.
Simple first step is to check if the EGR valve is working/clogged.
I had a "mobile mechanic" who came and checked it out. He tested the coils and said they were ok, and with his scanner on he said the temp on the rear catalytic converter should be in the range of 300-400 degrees but with load on the engine the temp was shooting upto 1000 and as he gives it gas it went up as high as 1400 - he thinks the rear cat is possibly clogged and bad - does that sound correct ?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Discussion Starter • #6 22 hours ago (Edited)
Edit
MrRangerZr1 said:
Now that’s what we needed :)
I would address the EGR code first.
Simple first step is to check if the EGR valve is working/clogged.


Click to expand...
I had a "mobile mechanic" who came and checked it out. He tested the coils and said they were ok, and with his scanner on he said the temp on the rear catalytic converter should be in the range of 300-400 degrees but with load on the engine the temp was shooting upto 1000 and as he gives it gas it went up as high as 1400 - he thinks the rear cat is possibly clogged and bad - does that sound correct ?

I did clean the EGR valve - it didn't seem dirty.

Any thoughts ?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Any help/thoughts on my problem would be appreciated.
I'm not sure if replacing the cat converters will solve my problem.
 

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A single temperature reading isn't really enough proof that the cat is bad. It's normal for the temperature to rise with RPM on a worn cat as it has to work harder. Also, the misfires could be releasing unburned fuel into the exhaust that could overheat the cat. In other words, the hot cat could be the result of the misfires, or the cause.

A blocked cat, not a hot cat, could cause misfires by impeding exhaust flow. To test for a blocked cat, take the cat's temperature at each end. The difference between the two readings should be less than 500 F degrees.

Another somewhat radical diagnostic is to disconnect the cat temporarily and see if the misfire codes go away.

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #10
A single temperature reading isn't really enough proof that the cat is bad. It's normal for the temperature to rise with RPM on a worn cat as it has to work harder. Also, the misfires could be releasing unburned fuel into the exhaust that could overheat the cat. In other words, the hot cat could be the result of the misfires, or the cause.

A blocked cat, not a hot cat, could cause misfires by impeding exhaust flow. To test for a blocked cat, take the cat's temperature at each end. The difference between the two readings should be less than 500 F degrees.

Another somewhat radical diagnostic is to disconnect the cat temporarily and see if the misfire codes go away.

Dave
The suggestion given to me was that because it "could" be blocked that the temp is rising so rapidly and causing the van to go so sslllloooowww (max speed is under 20) and it struggles to even go up a slight incline in the road (when the mobile mechanic took it for a test drive - granted he was big guy about 300 lbs [but he drives around in a little Honda Fit-Lol] and I'm about 200 lbs) I would've thought it should be able to haul around 500 lbs easily.
I talked to a couple shops and ofcourse they want me to bring it to them (which is very understandable) but they don't think a hot/blocked cat could cause it to drive like it does.
I understand the temp rises as you drive but does 1400 degrees sound normal when you're sitting in the driveway idling and giving it a little gas?
I don't have the proper equipment to disconnect the cats to test.
I use the van for work and haven't been able to work for the past 4 days. Thank god for my 2nd job, but it doesn't bring in much.
I guess I'm just going to have to have it towed to one of these shops so they can check it out.
 

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I agree with you that 1400 is hotter than normal. It indicates that the cat is being overworked, which could be from being blocked or from the exhaust having a high amount of pollutants. The two-reading test I mentioned above would identify which is the case.

I think a blocked cat could definitely cause the very sluggish performance you described. Thing is, this is a very expensive part, and so you want to be sure it's the problem before opening your wallet.

A cat normally lasts for the life of the car. A blocked cat can be caused by a poorly running engine. The old spark plugs with 173,000 miles on them could have caused it. Did you replace the rear three spark plugs after? Does the engine burn oil?

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I agree with you that 1400 is hotter than normal. It indicates that the cat is being overworked, which could be from being blocked or from the exhaust having a high amount of pollutants. The two-reading test I mentioned above would identify which is the case.

I think a blocked cat could definitely cause the very sluggish performance you described. Thing is, this is a very expensive part, and so you want to be sure it's the problem before opening your wallet.

A cat normally lasts for the life of the car. A blocked cat can be caused by a poorly running engine. The old spark plugs with 173,000 miles on them could have caused it. Did you replace the rear three spark plugs after? Does the engine burn oil?

Dave
Yes, I agree. That's why I was trying to make sure before randomly replacing unneeded parts

I have the new plugs but I haven't replaced the 3 rear plugs yet.

Yes, only started in the last 3 or 4 weeks - above normal
usually about 1 quart every 1000 miles or so but in the last 2 weeks I have gone through about 5 quarts
Has been leaving a trail of blue smoke if I idle for a little bit (5-10 mins) and then depart
I've had the VCMTUNER since January but haven't noticed (benefitted) from any less oil consumption than before.
 

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Wow, 5 quarts of oil consumption in 2 weeks is a lot. How many miles do you usually cover in 2 weeks? Have the shop assess the engine for overall mechanical condition. If it's done, your dilemma might switch from the cat to replacing or rebuilding the engine.

You said the codes indicated misfires only on cylinders 4 and 5, but those precise cylinder identifications are almost always inaccurate or incomplete. Replace the other three even though their cylinders were not identified in the codes
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Wow, 5 quarts of oil consumption in 2 weeks is a lot. How many miles do you usually cover in 2 weeks? Have the shop assess the engine for overall mechanical condition. If it's done, your dilemma might switch from the cat to replacing or rebuilding the engine.

You said the codes indicated misfires only on cylinders 4 and 5, but those precise cylinder identifications are almost always inaccurate or incomplete. Replace the other three even though their cylinders were not identified in the codes
The misfires changed from the 4 & 5 to random to pretty much all of them when the mobile mechanic was testing stuff
I average about 1000 miles a week
I usually take in for an oil change (at the dealer) once a month.
Didn't have any issues with the van till about 3 or 4 weeks ago when it started smoking on idling.
I've put on almost 90k miles in about a year and a half.
 

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I'm going to jump in and say.. yes your cats are probably dead. But the first problem is your smoking and consuming that much oil.. that is probably what killed your catalytic converter. I started reading the thread and thought it was a clogged cat at the beginning.. and yes temps shouldn't really go higher than 600 especially on a Honda that runs colder than other cars. Why your car is consuming lots of oil can be many other things that I can't really help out with unfortunately.
 

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Yes that is an insane amount of oil to be burning, could this be cylinder wear or stuck rings due to VCM problems caused prior to installing the VCM tuner?

Check the condition of all the spark plugs to see if any are oiled up, the oily plug/s might indicate a worn cylinder or stuck/rotated piston ring.

A simple pressure leakdown test on all the cylinders would be the next step.

Does anyone concur?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Yes that is an insane amount of oil to be burning, could this be cylinder wear or stuck rings due to VCM problems caused prior to installing the VCM tuner?

Check the condition of all the spark plugs to see if any are oiled up, the oily plug/s might indicate a worn cylinder or stuck/rotated piston ring.

A simple pressure leakdown test on all the cylinders would be the next step.

Does anyone concur?
The 3 front plugs I changed were pretty much identical. This pic is of plug # 4 (first one I removed - I don't have the plugs in front of me to post pics of all 3)
They were not wet (someone had asked me that question earlier)
 

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The 3 front plugs I changed were pretty much identical. This pic is of plug # 4 (first one I removed - I don't have the plugs in front of me to post pics of all 3)
They were not wet (someone had asked me that question earlier)
You seem to have dry fouling on that plug.
Read this > https://dannysengineportal.com/how-do-i-read-a-spark-plug/
look at the plugs in the picture, then scroll down to no 2 "Dry and Wet Fouling" and read what is says.
This make me curious could there be a problem with your spark plug coils on 4 & 5

How to Test a Spark Plug Ignition Coil
https://www.yourmechanic.com/article/how-to-test-a-spark-plug-ignition-coil-by-eduardo-ruelas

Assuming you have a digital multimeter test 4&5 and then I would test the others to get the correct figures.

let us know how you get on?

Some more reading>
 

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I just find it curious that the misfire is on the plugs that are dry fouled, as you can see (in the link above) they are certainly not looking like they should. You say the mechanic said the coil packs were fine. Now I'm a little stumped.

You could try swapping the coil packs around to different plugs and see if you get dry fouling on those plugs.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Update 11-26-19 (sorry about the delay)
A friend helped me change all 6 plugs (used NGK OE) and all 6 coils (used Hitachi OE coils)
He cleared all codes and started the van
Van still gives random misfires
Still doesn't run right
He said he has to get the rpm up above 2k in order to be able to run all the tests but unable to get the rpm that high,
over 1k-1.5k rpm it starts to bog down so he was unable to run any tests
He feels it has something to do with the timing but not positive
He also thinks it might be time for an engine replacement

Any suggestions on which direction to proceed ?
 
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