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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
Originally posted by Coleman_lot:
Al, I agreed with you everything you mention. Is there a report of any Odyssey Crossbar fly off on the road, beside the test report from Thule and Yakima? It might be just their sale scheme to attract more customers to their product.

Coleman, Even Honda admits their crossbars are not suitable for use with cargo boxes. Do you think they are trying to sell Yakima and Thule products? I too, suspected this was all a sales pitch by Yakima and Thule. That's wwhy I called Honda to get their side of the story. I was shocked to find out that Honda would not back up their product. That's why I posted this topic.

This whole denial of suitability of the crossbars for cargo boxes makes me wonder what specific applications are not suitable for the trailer hitches also, other than the total weight and tomgue weight..

I underatsnd that Honda has no control over the design of aftermarket cargo boxes, and that may be their excuse for not warranting their crossbars for that use,, but they don't have control over the design of aftermarket trailers or bike racks either.
Is the product safe for use with anything other than Honda marketed products?

If not, then it's Honda that is, pushing products, not Thule and Yakima.

BTW-if you read the previous posts, you would have read where Thule will approve the crossbars on the Passport for use with their cargo boxes. That tells me there is a product difference-a big one. At least big enough where they have confidence in one product and not the other, Regards
Al

[This message has been edited by albaby (edited 08-14-2001).]
 

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I don't think you could get a Honda representative to give you an Ok on attaching anything (box, boat, ladder or toothpick) on the cross bars in an attemp to protect themselves. They say 200lbs. evenly distibuted and leave it like that. Legally they always want to stay away from specifics. If they said boxes and your box or your mounting of the box fails and flies off. They'd be the first target of the law suit.
 

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Al, Of course Honda will denial any use of aftermarket product unless they install it themselves or unless they test the product themselves. Almost any car makers wouldn't want you to use any after market products. When ever we use after market product, we use it with our own term. Is there any real life report of an accident involve with Odyssey crossbar? The only reports I saw so far were from you, which are the report from your phone conversation with Thule and Yakima. I assume our government and insurance institute should be performing the test on all the crossbars from all car makers. They did all the crash tests, they should as well test the crossbar also to prevent future accident. There are probably more accident involve with other car maker crossbars than the Odyssey crossbar in real life. Suggestion: I assume everyone carry cargo in the cargo box strap their cargo with rope or net. Since we strap it down anyway, why don't we strap it to the strongest part of the supports; which is the side rails.

Coleman
 

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Coleman and Al,
I guess my solution is to put only non-valuable stuff in the cargo-box and pray it doesnt fly off and smack another car. Maybe I'll call my insurance guy and raise my liability limits... Frankly, the only way I can see the crossbars detaching is if the retaining bolts break. The crossbars on my Ford Explorer seem much weaker in comparison. I think I will write a letter to Honda and try to get a written reply stating that they specifically DO NOT recommend the use of a cargo box. Those in this thread that have called Honda seem to only get an ambiguous answer.

As a sidenote, there seems to be two different sets of crossbars in use on the Ody. Mine look much stronger, especially on the sides where they mount, than others I have seen. Anyone else noticed that?
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Coleman_lot:
Al, Of course Honda will denial any use of aftermarket product unless they install it themselves or unless they test the product themselves. Almost any car makers wouldn't want you to use any after market products. When ever we use after market product, we use it with our own term. Is there any real life report of an accident involve with Odyssey crossbar? The only reports I saw so far were from you, which are the report from your phone conversation with Thule and Yakima. I assume our government and insurance institute should be performing the test on all the crossbars from all car makers. They did all the crash tests, they should as well test the crossbar also to prevent future accident. There are probably more accident involve with other car maker crossbars than the Odyssey crossbar in real life. Suggestion: I assume everyone carry cargo in the cargo box strap their cargo with rope or net. Since we strap it down anyway, why don't we strap it to the strongest part of the supports; which is the side rails.

Coleman
</font>
Coleman, you are apparently having trouble reading the posts. HONDA-says the bars are unsuited for cargo boxes-not just Thule and Yakima!!!!! You also state that there are probably more accidents involving other makes crossbars than Hondas. Would that make ours safer? Or are you saying that we should accept an unsafe product because other are also unsafe. I don't understand your logic.
As far as your not blaming the manufacturer for not warranting a product if used with an aftermarket product-what kind of trailers does Honda make for use with their trailer hitch? What kind of bicycles or snowboards does Honda make for use with their bicycle and snowboard attachments for the roof racks?

You also miss the whole point, and that is" THEY DO NOT WARN YOU-ANYWHERE-THAT THIS PRODUCT IS NOT SUITABLE FOR USE WITH CARGO BOXES. THIS IS A VERY COMMON USE FOR THIS TYPE OF ATTACHMENT!!!

Do I know of any crossbars coming off? No-but I think warnings from 3 organizations-one of who is the car manufacturer- is good enough. I have several friends with Ford Exploders and Firestone tires that never blew out and caused crashes either.
The Odyssey is a limited production vehicle and those with cargo boxes are even fewer in number. I have seen several cargo boxes with their contents spilled on the highway. I didn't pay attention to the make of vehicles involved. In a couple of cases, they apprently didn't even know it happened as there was no vehicle around.I doubt if many (or any) of these incidents were reported to the NHTSA or even the police if an accident with another vehicle was not involved.

We know Honda monitors web sites because this site had to change its name at Hondas insistence. I find it strange that Honda has not replied to this topic and give us their reasons for not backing up their product. Surely someone fron Honda has seen the discussion.

Regards
Al



[This message has been edited by albaby (edited 08-16-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
Originally posted by RyDye:
I think I will write a letter to Honda and try to get a written reply stating that they specifically DO NOT recommend the use of a cargo box. Those in this thread that have called Honda seem to only get an ambiguous answer.

Rydye, Please post the reply (if you get one)and put this issue to rest. Let us know when and to who you sent the letter.

Thanks
Al
 

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Discussion Starter · #47 ·
As an aside- I went on a 2500 mile trip last week ansd in the process saw a Toyota Sienna with a Thule rack. It did not use the Siennas rails, but instead clipped to the edge of the door openings. Nothing short of a rollover or going under a semi-trailer would have dislodged it. I asked if the mounting caused wind noise and the owner said no. I asked why he chose the Thule system over Toyotas, and he said the system also was adaptable to his SUV which he uses for skiing and hunting trips. All he had to do was change one attachment on each foot.The crossbars were also available in different lengths and he could shift the cargo box and still have room for skis, bicycles, etc. Something to think about. If I can get my money back for the crossbars from B.C. Imports, that may be the way I'll go. A little more money, but more versatile-and guaranteed.

AL
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by b1trentel:
I don't think you could get a Honda representative to give you an Ok on attaching anything (box, boat, ladder or toothpick) on the cross bars in an attemp to protect themselves. They say 200lbs. evenly distibuted and leave it like that. Legally they always want to stay away from specifics. If they said boxes and your box or your mounting of the box fails and flies off. They'd be the first target of the law suit.

</font>
Take another look at the instructions that came with your crossbars. Mine say 150 lbs. Max. weight capacity. The Odyssey sales brochure says the roof rack has a capacity of 100 Lbs., yet in the crossbars installation instructions they say 150#. Which one is correct? Where are you getting the 200lbs?

The problem is not with the method of mounting of the box on the crossbars. That was never an issue and was never discussed. The problem was with the crossbars being able to withstand the lift forces created by the cargo box.

How do you suppose they would reply if I asked if I could hook a trailer that is less than 3500# and less than 350# tongue weight to my trailer hitch? Or is that too specific?
Maybe that is another use that isn't approved.
As to the person with the Sears box-when I went to Sears (two different stores) they could not find a recommeded installation for 99-2001 Odysseys. They did have one for the older Odys.

Regards
Al


[This message has been edited by albaby (edited 08-16-2001).]
 

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Hello,

I just installed my EX crossbars. It seems like the folks here agree that the Torx head bolt that fixes the bar to the holder on the side rail is the most likely candidate to break first. I am considering drilling out the holder to the same diameter as the hole in the crossbar (which is at least 1/8 inch greater in diameter than the flimsy little bolt). Then I would use new grade 5 or 8 bolts, nuts and washers (with a larger diameter than the original bolt) to attach the crossbar to the holder. The holder itself is a fairly large piece of metal, it seems unlikely to break. Stripped threads I can see, but not actual breakage. The side rails seem sturdy enough too. The only weakness would then be in how the holder is secured into the side rail. Whaddya think (especially you, Albaby)?

cheers,

------------------
gbaxley
'01 TW EX
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
gbaxley-your fix sounds like one that Honda should have engineered into the bars in the first place. The only negative I can see in the fix is that it relieves Honda of all liability should they fail, and does not address the original issue of Hondas not placing restrictions on the use of the crossbars for cargo box use in their literature. But a probable good fix nonetheless. Here is the text of a letter I just recieved from Honda, addressing the issue.

" Thank you for your letter regarding your request for advisory notices being included in our Odysseys owners manuals for the use of cargo boxes with the vehicles crossbars.
We recommend that if you carry any items on the roof rack, ensure the total weight does not exceed 150lb and if you use an accessory roof rack, the roof rack weight limit may be lower. Refer to the information that came with your roof rack.
Your owners manual does offer precautions for the use of the roof rack crossbars, but unfortunately, no other information or literature is available for your concerns about the specific(italics) use of the crossbars at this time.
We greatly appreciate it when our customers take the time to write. These comments help use engineer products which better meet our customer needs and improve our service.
Should you have any additional questions or doncerns, please feel free to me (sic) at (800) 999-1009, ext. 118065.
WE thank you again for your contribution towards the improvement of Honda productsa and service."

It was signed Sincerely.
Charisma Justis
Consumer Specialist
National Comsumer Affairs
 

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That's why Honda won't install EX crossbar at factory. If you want it have your dealer installed it. In case anything went wrong go after your dealer not Honda.

I could careless about the crossbar. Some other people even remove the EX roof rails.

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'01 GG EX
Mud Guard, Wheel Lock, Cargo Tray, Weathertech Mats
leather steerling wheel cover, Pioneer 1655 speakers, 1086 on its way
Lojack
 

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I find it interesting that the name of the person that signed the letter was Charisma Justis.

Jeff

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Jeff

'01 SS EX
Cassette, Rosen Video System, Fog Lights, Splash Guards
Full Nose Mask

See photos at:
http://www.fototime.com/inv/B5EC5C7BC6CFA07
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by bjk2001:
That's why Honda won't install EX crossbar at factory. If you want it have your dealer installed it. In case anything went wrong go after your dealer not Honda.

I could careless about the crossbar. Some other people even remove the EX roof rails.

</font>
With that kind of logic, we can be glad you did not design the bars-or maybe you did. So you are saying that it's OK for someone to design a defective product as long as they find a way to shift the blame onto someone else! Your post is also evidence that you have no idea what is involved in "installing" the crossbars or how they are made. It is not much more complicated than installing your license plates. If that is too much for you to handle-don't buy them.
And if you don't care about them-why are you replying to this post? There are some people who will be using the crossbars. Thats who this information is for-not you.

Regards
Al



[This message has been edited by albaby (edited 08-24-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by jvennitti:
I find it interesting that the name of the person that signed the letter was Charisma Justis.

Jeff

</font>
Yeah-I thought that sounded kind of phoney. Kinda like Helen Hunt. (If you want a fix for this problem, go to Helen Hunt for it, that sort of thing). I have been trying to contact "Charisma" but got the usual "you are important to us voice mail asking me to leave my number. "Charisma"did call back but I wasn't home. I'll try again.

Note "her" reply refers only to the weight limitation and nothing about lift forces etc. I will also mention that the manufacturers of the cargo boxes have "information or literature addressing your concerns about the specific use of the crossbars" that may be available.
They could ask for or petition that data being as it is denigrating their product and could either refute or verify the results.
I will give them this web site address and the location of our discussion and ask "Charisma" to post her reply here.

Regards
Al



[This message has been edited by albaby (edited 08-24-2001).]
 

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Al, good job. Very good information from Honda. So another word, it is okay to mount the cargo tray using Honda crossbar as long as the total weight equal or less than 150 pounds. My question; is it better to carry multiple bikes using the crossbar or using the trailer hitch? I am planning to carry about 3 mountain bikes made by Jeep. You can find the bike on this site: http://onlinemarket.itctv.com/ Give me suggestion.
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by albaby:
With that kind of logic, we can be glad you did not design the bars-or maybe you did. So you are saying that it's OK for someone to design a defective product as long as they find a way to shift the blame onto someone else! Your post is also evidence that you have no idea what is involved in "installing" the crossbars or how they are made. It is not much more complicated than installing your license plates. If that is too much for you to handle-don't buy them.
And if you don't care about them-why are you replying to this post? There are some people who will be using the crossbars. Thats who this information is for-not you.

Regards
Al

[This message has been edited by albaby (edited 08-24-2001).]
</font>
Al:

HMM, How could you claim Honda crossbar is unsafe? Have you had anything fallen off your crossbar when you drive? Do you know how many people have their stuffs fallen off the Honda Crossbar?
Where is your evidence to proof your claim? Honda could get you for making "rumors" about their product.




------------------
'01 GG EX
Mud Guard, Wheel Lock, Cargo Tray, Weathertech Mats
leather steerling wheel cover, Pioneer 1655 speakers, 1086 on its way
Lojack
 

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Coleman_lot,

I recall a couple other posts about the trailer hitch bike racks. I thought there were some ground clearance issues, but try a search through the forums, if you haven't already.

The obvious benefit of the trailer hitch version is it is a lot easier to get the bikes on the rack. Lifting bikes while balancing on a ladder would be tricky. I have put items into our cargo box on our Isuzu Trooper and it is not easy. Of course I am only 5'5".

Jeff

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Jeff

'01 SS EX
Cassette, Rosen Video System, Fog Lights, Splash Guards
Full Nose Mask

See photos at:
http://www.fototime.com/inv/B5EC5C7BC6CFA07
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by jvennitti:
Coleman_lot,

I recall a couple other posts about the trailer hitch bike racks. I thought there were some ground clearance issues, but try a search through the forums, if you haven't already.

The obvious benefit of the trailer hitch version is it is a lot easier to get the bikes on the rack. Lifting bikes while balancing on a ladder would be tricky. I have put items into our cargo box on our Isuzu Trooper and it is not easy. Of course I am only 5'5".

Jeff

</font>
Jeff, I agree. And you would also have to tie the ladder to the rack or carry it inside. I have seen 3 Odys with Draw-Tite hitches and they did not seem to have a ground clearance problem. However, a loaded van and something extending from the hitch could concievably drag. I saw a van (going down the hwy)with a bike rack where thwe arm came out from the hitch a short way, then curved upward for about 8 inches or so, before it extended out again. Plenty of ground clearance for the bikes.

Coleman- I am not an expert on bike racks, but I will offer some tips, based on my experience/observations.

The roof mounted racks-while "cooler" looking, have advantages/ disadvantages other than the loading problem. For one, while it may make it morte difficult to load,and possibly damage the van in the process, it will also make it more difficult for someone to steal the bikes. However, if they decide to do so, they will probably do more damage to your van. If you go thru a drive-thru window or wooded trails, you could also have a problem with top mounted bikes. Some primitive campsites have low branches etc. Also more wind resistance and noise.

Hitch mounted may obstruct access thru the rear hatch. If you go this route, consider a rack that tilts down or swings out of the way. Also see if the device that secures the tilt mechanism is something you can tighten to remove free play. I had one (Graber) that I had attached to the rear of my travel trailer. The tilt mechanism was held by a pin. Before I got to Alaska (from MIchigan) the hole for the pin was oblong and allowed the bikes to rock a lot, and was basically trashed. I had to secure the whole works with bungee cords. That wonderful piece of enginneering is now in a landfill.
While they make devices to lock the bikes to the racks, don't forget to get a locking pin where the rack goes into the hitch reciever. All it would take is for someone to remove that pin to get all your bikes-and your rack.

And finally, check the clearance of the bikes before you buy the rack, and if one of the bikes is a "ladys" bike-see how it mounts and hangs on the rack.

Just my .02
Have fun
Al



[This message has been edited by albaby (edited 08-28-2001).]
 

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Al and Jeff: Thank you very much for the information. I'll probably go with the trailer hitch bike rack. It is more convenience as you described. Coleman.
 

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Can someone please clarify if the issue with installing a roof box is only with the crossbars, and not the side rails? I would like to install a Yakima Rocketbox on my '99 EX. Currently, I have no factory crossbars, just the side rails. Does the 100# rack weight limit pertain to the rack when using the Honda factory crossbars, or the side rails? If using Yakima Double Cross tower sets w/ bars, they connect directly to the siderails. I'm not sure if this setup is going to be any better than the factory crossbars. It seems it may handle the torques a bit better, and not have the same type failures I'm reading about in this forum. So, is there any feedback out there on failure of the side rails? Is this the weak point? If the side rails are considered strong, perhaps the Yakima setup might be preferred. My only experience with the rack is a 60 minute trip @65 mph with 2 bed mattresses strapped only to the side rails. My side rails were still intact at the trips end. And one other thing - if the weight limit is 100#, then you'll be able to get two bikes, and an EMPTY box onto the roof rack - the box weighs 40+ pounds.
 
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