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Discussion Starter #1
I’m a first time poster, with a big, expensive repair situation. I’m hoping you can provide some wisdom and assistance in appealing for a goodwill warranty extension where I'm arguing the difference between model year and manufacture date.


Three weeks ago our Odyssey suddenly lost power on the highway. We took it to our local shop and they found 6 diagnostic codes. After a week of working on it, the manager was still suspicious that something bigger was going on. He did some research and discovered the 2014 Honda Engine Misfire Class Action Settlement. He told us it matched the symptoms and error codes our car was exhibiting, and we should take it to the Honda dealer.

The full information on the Engine Misfire case is available here, but in quick summary, the Settlement Class Vehicles include Odysseys from Model Year 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013 that are equipped with a 6-cylinder engine with Variable Cylinder Management (“VCM-2”). The Engine Misfire at issue generates one or more of the following vehicle diagnostic trouble codes (“DTC”): P0301, P0302, P0303, or P0304.

The class action settlement is a legal agreement defined by model year as documented in the VIN (Vehicle Identification Number). Our car was manufactured in August 2007 at the very end of the model year, so our '07 VIN does not meet the cutoff for '08 models. We've contacted the Class Action administrator and the lead attorney, and both said that we cannot be included in the settlement. The qualifying vehicles also included the Accord, Pilot, and Crosstour for a whopping 1,870,000 potential vehicles. No wonder they’re not letting in any strays!

If this engine misfire defect had resulted in a massive recall instead of a class action settlement, the included vehicles would be defined by Honda’s manufacture date for the parts, not model year. For instance, here is the language used in two of the NHTSA Recalls for the 2007 Odyssey:

American Honda Motor Company (Honda) is recalling certain model year 2007-2008 Honda Odyssey vehicles manufactured August 8, 2006, through September 8, 2008. Due to a combination of system components and software, the Vehicle Safety Assist System (VSA) may apply the brakes unexpectedly.

American Honda Motor Co., Inc. (Honda) is recalling certain 2005-2010 Honda Odyssey vehicles manufactured June 23, 2004, through September 4, 2010. In the affected vehicles, the fuel pump strainer cover may deteriorate allowing fuel to leak out.

So if the problem were defined by Honda instead of the court, we likely would have been included with our August manufacture date.

The Engine Misfire Settlement had two parts. All owners received an extended 8 year powertrain warranty with no mileage limit. If an owner filed a claim by April 2014, they got an extended 8 year powertrain warranty with no mileage limit PLUS reimbursement for out of pocket expenses associated with the Engine Misfire diagnostic codes like spark plugs, valve stem seals, and engine pistons and/or pistons rings (a "ring job"). It even acknowledged more extensive repairs like ignition coils, the engine long block, the engine short block, and the valve timing chain and/or valve timing tensioner.

In our case, we've got the whole shebang of trouble. We had a week of repairs at our local shop costing $2800 to replace damaged parts (pistons, rings, catalytic converters, oxygen sensors) and two weeks of repairs at the Honda Dealership costing $6600 to replace the short block engine and valve seals. Much of the cost at the dealership was slow and deliberate dismantling of the engine to satisfy Honda North America’s requirements for documentation of the defect. Frankly, putting in a new or rebuilt engine would have been faster and cheaper than taking the whole thing apart.

If our car was manufactured a month later (September 2007) and the engine misfire happened a year sooner (April 2014), the entire $9400 would have been under the extended warranty and reimbursement plan. Since we do not meet those criteria, we are getting a “good will discount” of $2700 from Honda and the dealership, leaving us with the remaining $3900 bill to get our car reassembled, plus all the earlier repairs to the damaged parts.

We are now appealing the case to the dealership by writing a formal letter of appeal with all the supporting documentation for the points I have covered here. We are asking for the same offer as the class action group: an 8 year extended powertrain warranty with no mileage limitation. If they do not raise the financial assistance, we will continue our case with BBB Autoline.

So, Odyclub folks, do you have any tips, recommendations, or additional documentation we can use for our case?

Thank you!
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thanks, we agree.

Last Thursday Honda NA had told us they weren't amending their original offer.

This morning our Honda NA case manager called to say she was keeping our case open to do more research and would get back to us on Wednesday! So there's still some hope they'll cover it with the extended powertrain warranty.
 

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I understand that you are having the issues, but I though that 2007 year Odyssey had VCM-1 engine not VCM-2.
Please look at the timing cover in front of Power steering pump and write the engine model number, is yours J35A7?
If so, you are not covered by the lawsuit terms because you have a completely different engine. The VCM-2 was
installed in 2008+ Odysseys.
 

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I understand that you are having the issues, but I though that 2007 year Odyssey had VCM-1 engine not VCM-2.
Please look at the timing cover in front of Power steering pump and write the engine model number, is yours J35A7?
If so, you are not covered by the lawsuit terms because you have a completely different engine. The VCM-2 was
installed in 2008+ Odysseys.
So my friend with 2010 Ody gave me the engine code and its also J35A7 ?!?
I would have expected there to be a different engine code between VCM1 and VCM2.
 

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i would consider you to be lucky to be getting the break that you are getting from Honda NA(not that i would stop there), but Max has it right, the powertrain extension started with the '08 models and yours in an '07. model year is defined by the specs to which they build the vehicle. manufacture date is simply that. you could have a model year '07 with a manufacture date of 08/07, as well as a model year '08 with a manufacture date of 08/07. it would be 2 different vans depending on the model year changes. they limit it to model years of '08 and newer because that was when the engine change happened. '08+ has VCM-2, which was the problematic one. now i am not taking away anything from the fact that your '07 with VCM-1 is exhibiting the exact same symptoms and failures of the VCM-2, i think that is your leg to stand on with Honda NA. yours would most likely be out of, if not close to out of the extended warranty if they did include the '07. my '08 gave me the issue earlier this year, and i am glad it did because this time next year, i would be paying out of pocket due to the time limt on the warranty. luckily mine was built in 12/08 so i had until 12/15 for it to crap out. best of luck to you as i know this is not an easy fight.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Still in negotiations over this, 32 days after the breakdown. Two weeks ago we wrote a 7 page letter of documentation with attachments from the standard warranty, class action documents, and details on our vehicle. We gave them to dealership's service manager and general manager, and Honda's field factory rep and customer service manager. Then the field rep went on vacation so that was another week's delay.

They say whatever offer we get is based on "good will" not the class action warranty and I agree with that. We are an "asterix" case, which is why I'm clearly spelling it out to them the difference between the legal definition and our circumstanced. The biggest point of contention is not the parts (Honda's first offer was for 80% of short engine block) but on the $3000+ in labor. On our first day at the dealership, the service manager said the car had to be disassembled in order to get and exact diagnosis and apply for financial assistance from Honda. So in order to get any help on parts, we have to incur a huge labor bill. Catch-22.

If we had come in when it first happened, instead of going to our local mechanic like we did, I doubt he would have even mentioned the misfire defect. He also keeps downplaying the damaged components that our mechanics replaced, saying it was unnecessary even though they were damaged by the leaking fuel that got into the emissions system.

It's a stinky situation.
 

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Hi thought I'd kickstart this thread.

2012 Odyssey.

Sunday night Check Engine and VSA light come on. CEL is flashing. 4 block from home. Return home with rough running van.
Call dealer Monday and they say dont drive it - tow it in. I have Honda extended warranty so I have it towed in for free.

p0302. Misfire in Cylinder 2. They call and say plug is soaked with oil and they will replace all the piston rings in 1-> 4.
They immediately said they need to do TSB 13-081. I did not ask, that was there initial plan right out of the gate.

Read other stories online about dealers replacing one plug and then people having the same problem 2 month later. Then dealer replacing one plug, same problem 2 month later. etc

Car gets there on Mon noon - Ready Weds Noon. Rides as smooth as the loaner they gave me with 500 miles on it. No unusually noises and rode smooth.

Granted - only 20 miles since fix. But am hopeful this is a long term fix. I have 52K on van and it has never burned much oil. It was down about 10 ounces since last oil change (6K ago). I've always used the MM for oil change.

Also, TBS will only change 4 plugs. (for some reason this doesnt effect cylinders 5/6 - anyone know why?)

I told them to change other plugs at my expense. They did the other 2 for free.

Only time will tell about the fix, I will report back in 6 months or earlier if something fails. Thankful I bought 120K extended warranty.

It's not the dealers fault it was broken, but they really stood up and did the TSB without me asking for anything. Right from the get go they said one is leaking oil, and we will replace all 4. I am thankful for their approach.

Good luck to all and Happy Motoring!

Happy to answer any questions.
BTW, if you don't already know that TSB covers 8 years regardless of mileage.
 

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hey OP and everyone else who contributed on this thread...just a BIG thank you! P0303 came up yesterday when the wife was driving our 2010 and I immediately researched the issue online and this thread came up. Glad to report that Pacific Honda here in San Diego, diagnosed, replaced 4 spark plugs (I did inquire about the other 2 and the service advisor said to have the other 2 replaced when we do the 90k service) and reset the computer. They did all of this under the extended warranty.
Without the information gathered from this thread, for sure my local mechanic shop- even though they are trustworthy, would have charged me for diagnostics (gladly they had a coupon for the free check engine light scan-this is how I got the P0303 code for misfire) and they would have probably charged me to change a coil or several coils or whatever else would have come up.
From the information gathered from here, I was able to have our van fixed under warranty. As a result of the settlement, we will also have 2 more years coverage if this issue comes up again. We hope it does not, but we will keep our fingers crossed and consult this thread and site again if the issue persists. Than you again OP and everyone else who contributed on this matter. Useful information on the net is awesome!
 

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hey OP and everyone else who contributed on this thread...just a BIG thank you! P0303 came up yesterday when the wife was driving our 2010 and I immediately researched the issue online and this thread came up. Glad to report that Pacific Honda here in San Diego, diagnosed, replaced 4 spark plugs (I did inquire about the other 2 and the service advisor said to have the other 2 replaced when we do the 90k service) and reset the computer. They did all of this under the extended warranty.
Without the information gathered from this thread, for sure my local mechanic shop- even though they are trustworthy, would have charged me for diagnostics (gladly they had a coupon for the free check engine light scan-this is how I got the P0303 code for misfire) and they would have probably charged me to change a coil or several coils or whatever else would have come up.
From the information gathered from here, I was able to have our van fixed under warranty. As a result of the settlement, we will also have 2 more years coverage if this issue comes up again. We hope it does not, but we will keep our fingers crossed and consult this thread and site again if the issue persists. Than you again OP and everyone else who contributed on this matter. Useful information on the net is awful esome!
you really need to get a VCMuzzler before more problems happen after the extended warranty. Look for more info in this thread
http://www.odyclub.com/forums/52-2005-2010-odyssey/268778-vcmuzzler-ii-disabling-vcm-faq-s.html
 

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We're going through the same thing with the misfire codes and VCM..last Friday the dealer told us they will have to do the piston ring fix at 77,000 miles. I plan on researching the VCM muzzler. I would be curious to know the percentage of VCM vehicles on the road and the number of failures and the mileage they occurred. And if there is some common denominator. From researching the posts, it seems we're at the higher end mileage wise.
 

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Just get it fixed under extended warranty and then put the VCMuzzler on and don't give it another thought. It's $90 well spent. There is no common denominator. Some run into a problem and others don't. It depends on how the vehicle is driven, too. I had 135K on my van and didn't have any issues before I put the Muzzler on. I've got 163K on now and still no issues. Mine is too old for the extended warranty to apply so preventing it is important to me.
 

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Thank you John Clark. For sure I will be reading more on the VCMuzzler and will make a decision soon to get ahead of the curve.
I can't wait to read more from this forum. I also can't wait to contribute- I had some work done on our van and I think readers will also benefit from this information. Thanks again everyone.
 

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I second John Clark last post. My 2010 EX-L has been flawless since VCM was disabled with the VCMuzzler over 50K miles ago. Put it on and fuggetaboutit!
 

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We went through a P303 (cylinder 3 misfire) on our 2011 recently. Took it to the dealer and requested an oil change at the same time. After troubleshooting, they informed me that beyond basic spark plug repairs, the TSB applied. https: // techinfo.honda. com/rjanisis/ pubs/web/A13-081. pdf. Recommend you read through the TSB if you have the same issue. Honda is paying for all this work and it includes a coolant and oil change. We also elected to pay to do the timing belt at the same time; quoted at ~$600 vice the normal ~$900 because a good portion of the labor is already complete with this TSB. No one should be paying for the piston ring fix; you are getting the runaround if you otherwise meet the conditions mentioned in the TSB. Also, I couldn't leave the hyperlink together because this is my first post; please excuse the extra spaces.
 

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Canada?

We went through a P303 (cylinder 3 misfire) on our 2011 recently. Took it to the dealer and requested an oil change at the same time. After troubleshooting, they informed me that beyond basic spark plug repairs, the TSB applied. https: // techinfo.honda. com/rjanisis/ pubs/web/A13


Just wondering if you guys know if this applies for Canada as well? Just had these codes come up 2 days ago.. checked the codes myself instead of bringing it to the dealer. Thanks to all of you for this thread.
 

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We went through a P303 (cylinder 3 misfire) on our 2011 recently. Took it to the dealer and requested an oil change at the same time. After troubleshooting, they informed me that beyond basic spark plug repairs, the TSB applied. https: // techinfo.honda. com/rjanisis/ pubs/web/A13


Just wondering if you guys know if this applies for Canada as well? Just had these codes come up 2 days ago.. checked the codes myself instead of bringing it to the dealer. Thanks to all of you for this thread.
honestly, your best bet is to call the local dealer and ask, then come back and share with the forum.
Even if you have to fix it yourself, the plugs are not that expensive in USD.
Get VCM muzzler after you fix the problem.
 

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Ok great thanks! On my way to a dealer now! I have the plugs already, just want to know if Honda will do anything for me before I go fixing it.
 

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Hey guys, they ran the vin and nothing about this came up, the only thing was a recall on second row seating! My odyssey is a 2011 exl for those with the same one get your second row seating checked out!
 

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First time poster...
Bought our 2012 Ody used with only 30K in October 2016 because they're supposed to run forever.... Took our first trip from Michigan to Florida and found out in Georgia about the Class Action Settlement after our check engine light started flashing 4 hours from our destination. Long story short, Langdale Honda of Valdosta, GA took excellent care of our van and made the repairs under the lawsuit extended warranty. (I would highly recommend their service for anyone in the area.)
My question is: What is the best way to go about seeking reimbursement for the rental vehicle, lodging, meals, etc. that my family of six encountered due to the known problem. I know I need to contact Honda North America - my beef is NOT with the dealership....
Anyone with successful experience in getting their out of pocket costs associated with the problem reimbursed?
 
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