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Discussion Starter #1
What’s Going On? Attorneys working with ClassAction.org are investigating whether a defect in the ZF 9HP transmission is causing a sudden and unexpected shaking, commonly referred to as “juddering.” They need to speak to owners and lessees of the vehicles to learn more about the problem and to help determine whether a class action lawsuit is viable.

What Can I Get from a Class Action? A class action lawsuit, if filed and successful, could provide Honda Odyssey drivers with compensation for prior repairs and for the diminished value of their vehicles. It could also force Honda to recall and fix the affected models.

Help This Investigation If you had issues with your Honda Odyssey’s transmission, fill out the form on this page and tell us about it. One of the attorneys we work with may then reach out to you directly to learn more about the problems you’ve had and to explain more about how you can help with their investigation.


This is your chance to be heard and help others for repairs or relacements of this defective transmission, take 15 seconds to fill out the on-line form to further this possible ClassAction suit.
 

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Unless the case can prove there is an impending danger to motorists.......there will be no fix.
That's not necessarily true. The VCM class action lawsuit was not about imminent danger to drivers and it was still certified and a resolution was reached. Those who are having problems with the 9-speed should jump into this with both feet.
 

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Tell us what the VCM case core argument by the plaintiffs was and how that argument ended with a software update that fixed the alleged long term outcome to owners.....
 

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Tell us what the VCM case core argument by the plaintiffs was and how that argument ended with a software update that fixed the alleged long term outcome to owners.....
The core complaint was of excessive oil consumption and misfires that brought on costly repairs that Honda was unfairly sticking owners with. Once sued and a ruling against Honda became the most likely outcome, Honda settled the suit by offering the (in)famous 8-year unlimited mileage warranty extension that saw them spend millions of dollars rebuilding the engines of vehicles so far out of normal warranty range it was laughable. And I say this as someone who has helped guide several people through the process. A thrashed out sh*tbox of a van that would have normally been begging to be traded in drives away with a free basically new engine that potentially doubles its useable lifespan - I’m sure Honda’s loved seeing that.

If Honda did the ring replacement on only 0.5% of eligible vehicles (meaning the other 99.5% of them were OK or at least not quite that bad), that cost them about 20 million dollars. And that was the option Honda chose for themselves! Now I can’t tell if you’re being obtuse or really don’t see the analogy in the two cases, but the suggestion that Honda can’t be pressured into helping its customers more than they’d normally want to simply is not valid. History suggests it can work.

If I owned a 9-speed Ody that shifted like a tractor, I’d look at this as a free shot to apply the kind of pressure to get a fix that I couldn’t apply alone. What do you have to lose?
 

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I was curious to know if you really understood what the issues were and what the outcome really was with the VCM case. Getting deep into the weeds of it all.

Now that you have elaborated in the necessary detail pertaining to the VCM case.

If this new case concerning the ZF 9 speeds being brought will be argued in the same way, then it will require more than just a handful of mechanical failures that show the same short and long term level of financial and psychological duress on Honda’s customers to which this ZF 9 speed case will apply.

If the case will be argued with regards to an engineering design flaw that has a high likelihood of causing mechanical failure that places motorists and passengers in danger, then expert level evidence will have to be revealed that warrants and demands that AHMC must correct the design issue that had caused and may cause a safety issue during driving.


Have you seen data supporting either instance of high mechanical failure rates at lower mileage counts than expected norms? Or data supporting a major engineering design flaw causing immediate safety issues or a future safety issue as wear occurs?

The former may be easier to argue and win than the latter.....
 

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I haven't seen anything in particular about the failure rates of the ZF9 transmissions in Honda vehicles but that's mainly because I haven't bothered to look. It's not going to affect me and so my interest is sympathetic at best. Maybe a little selfish, but it's the truth.

In the case of VCM2, the evidence of disproportionate failure rates was (in retrospect) pretty obvious. One of the flaws in VCM2 is that it would always shut down the exact same set of cylinders for a given mode (3-cylinder mode always shut down cylinders 1,2,3 and 4-cylinder mode always shut down cylinders 3 & 4). Because of this setup it turns out that cylinders 5 & 6 never shut down; they operate in every possible mode. This "weakness" actually gave people a leg-up in figuring the problem out because cylinders 5 and 6 in any given engine represented a baseline for comparison as cylinders that functioned the old-fashioned way - all the time, uninterrupted. And those cylinders were ALWAYS just fine. The piston ring problems and fouling were never found in cylinders 5 & 6 - they were always and exclusively in cylinders 1-4. So it didn't take a lot of analysis to realize the difference between cylinders 1-4 and cylinders 5 & 6 was the frequency of being shut down by VCM, and the consistency of that outcome strongly suggested that never shutting down a cylinder meant it would never fail in this way. The identical smoking gun was in every single engine they looked at. Now, one could conceivably interpret this as an engineering error but since Honda didn't acknowledge that and instead addressed only the symptoms of the issue with the extended warranty, it falls to individual owners to realize what's really wrong and do what Honda simply cannot - disable VCM2 in model year 2008 to 2017 J35 engines.

The entire VCM2 debacle was never about driver or public safety. A misfiring engine is super unlikely to get anyone killed on the highway. It was about undue financial harm to owners. And that's why I think putting extra heat on Honda about the 9-speed transmission cannot be anything but good from the perspective of an affected owner.

** Edit: I apologize for temporarily sidetracking this thread - God knows we don't need to talk about VCM even more than we already do. My point is I want everyone who is affected by this clunky transmission to feel encouraged about participating in a potential class-action lawsuit and hopefully this little history lesson helps with that. Good results for owners can come even without a final ruling.
 

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With that new detailed account. I 100% Agree. And all owners should be pressing their dealers and the customer service lines about any issues they have. These vehicles cost too much and carry human beings around for safe passage to and from.

Thanks for expounding
 

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Discussion Starter #11
So, it's also open to Canadians?
I an not certain how these lawsuits break out per country, I do know the asbestos lawsuit one was both Canada and the U.S.,
I would probably sign-up, not knowing a correct answer to that.
 

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So I registered for this lawsuit and the phone in Q & A session was extensive. If you get involved in this suit you all need to be very specific in how you word your responses.

Sometimes the questions are too general to get specific information from the owner in regards to various conditions observed under different variables experienced on the roadways while driving with the ZF 9 speeds.

They have not determined if any viable case can be levied yet. They need as much participation as possible to gather real undeniable evidence. Gather your thoughts, your service records, and your VIN then email them. They will reply with instructions.
 

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You can always request copies of the pertinent records from the dealer service department. Where there’s a will there’s an “A”.
 

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Honda already made the decision of not using the 9-speed on the 2020 Odyssey. This kind of class action lawsuit benefits the attorneys not the customers.
The object of the game here is not to force Honda to stop using that transmission - like you said, they already have. That decision arguably took too long to reach, but that's water under the bridge now.

The true objective is to get Honda to take full responsibility for the performance of the transmissions they freely and happily chose to install. People paid good money for their 9-speed equipped vans and more than a few, it seems, have not received fair value from Honda in return. Joining together to exert pressure they can't do alone is a reasonable approach to try.
 
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