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I just saw the news on Honda recalls. Checked the VIN for recalls on my 2019 Ody EXL with NAV that I purchased less than a year ago. FOUR additional recalls!!! I already serviced it a few months ago for the rear power outlet recall. Honda quality sucks big time. Honda buyers of the newer models assembled by accountants and finance folks that Honda pooled on assembly lines during COVID - good luck to you!

2018-20 Ody Sliding Door Outer Handle Cables Safety Recall
2018-21 Multimodel Gauge Control Module SW Update Noncompliance
2019-20 Odyssey Rearview Camera Noncompliance
2019-20 Multimodel Front Control Box OTA Update Noncompliance


p.s. even my 06 EXL that was a huge waste of $$$ in service (besides engine everything including tranny got replaced there) didn't have that many recalls.
 
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They're actually non-compliance preventative recalls. They saw something that can fail down the road and are offering to fix it for you on their dime before it fails. What exactly is the problem with that? 馃 I wish GM did the same and not wait for people to die before they issued their ignition switch recall.
Out of all available van options, Odyssey still has the highest safety ratings regardless of the recalls.
 

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Forget about the recalls, wait until the repairs start piling up. This isn't your father's Honda. Our 2018 Odyssey (our 3rd Honda van) has had several recalls and repairs including, more recently: injector recall - replacement, engine management software reload, transmission hesitation and jerky shifting - cured for a few weeks by a transmission software update, knocking in steering system cured by replacement of the steering box and rack, knock from front suspension - cured by replacement of the upper control arms due to failed bushings. And here is the kicker - the van has 24,000 miles on it and is just under 3 years old. Its our last Honda.
 

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serega12: well, if you don't see a problem with a car manufacturer issuing 5 recalls for the car less than a year old, then I don't really know what to tell you. I don't care how they call it 'preventive' / 'non-compliance', whatever.
The safety rating that you've mentioned has nothing to do with this. You can have a tank with "highest safety ratings" that breaks all the time and becomes the money pit once it is out of warranty.

I have Hybrid Accord made in Japan that has zero problems in the last 3 years.

Odysseys' quality is not good and I can guarantee that your Odyssey will cost you a lot to service once the warranty rans out. Ask me how I know this.
 

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serega12: well, if you don't see a problem with a car manufacturer issuing 5 recalls for the car less than a year old, then I don't really know what to tell you. I don't care how they call it 'preventive' / 'non-compliance', whatever.
The safety rating that you've mentioned has nothing to do with this. You can have a tank with "highest safety ratings" that breaks all the time and becomes the money pit once it is out of warranty.

I have Hybrid Accord made in Japan that has zero problems in the last 3 years.

Odysseys' quality is not good and I can guarantee that your Odyssey will cost you a lot to service once the warranty rans out. Ask me how I know this.
Your and mine are less than a year old, but these recalls apply to 2018-2020 vehicles, which realistically have been out since mid 2017, so 5 recalls over three years and only one of them being safety recall isn't bad. I come from a Chrysler product van and they just let things fail without recalls and then blame you for doing something wrong.
Toyota took forever to recognize the Takata airbag issue was an actual lethal danger. Again, GM took forever and a few people dead before they recalled millions of vehicles for faulty ignition switches.
I like Honda's preventative approach better.
The only things I'm worried about are covered by lifetime powertrain warranty through my dealer. FWIW, you don't need to have the recalls fixed if you don't want to.

Is the quality not as great as my mom's old Honda? Most definitely. But if you look at what's available - every manufacturer is going through the same thing. Their cars are not built to last anymore. New BMW, Audi, VW, Dodge, Ford... None of them will be as reliable and last as long as their older generations. Just the nature of the automotive industry.
 
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Just the nature of the automotive industry.
You hit the nail right on the head, serega12. This is true of most industries. For some reason, the big fad these days is to do everything half-assed or release products to a bunch of beta-testers (customers) who are willing to take the plunge with thousands of dollars just to point out all the things that are either terribly designed, poorly built, or don't work at all.

I too applaud Honda for stepping up to the plate and offering a proactive approach with their recalls but it is staggering the number of hours we as customers spend at the dealership or at least without our cars just because someone didn't get it right the first time. The big excuse that reads, "Cars are far more complex today so they can't possibly get them right the first time" doesn't cut it. Try telling that to Boeing. I know that's an unfair comparison but the principle is the same. They have to retain their customers and attract new ones. They can't do it with a crappy business model.

Either make the cars less complex or hire the talent who can get it right the first time. Japanese made cars have a stellar record. The ones I have bought from Japan were perfect. The North American made ones have been sort of all right but there have always been issues with the build quality, design, and reliability. Why is that?
 

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YES Hodna.

You鈥檙e preaching the right message. My 2020 Acura Honda RLX SPort Hybrid systems all work perfectly and work in the real world in all situations. OTOH....my 2019 Odyssey has a bunch of half baked technological enhancements that do nothing that infuriate and endanger. All expensive junk.
 

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My 2020 is the third ody that I own. I had 2 other ones from 2 other gens.

I definitely noticed the cost cutting over the 3 gens.

However, the price of the vans didn鈥檛 go up much since my 2005. So the money has to come from somewhere.
 

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LOL, serega12! Just before I pressed Post reply I thought of the very same thing. Do you think Boeing hired a bunch of ex-automotive engineers 馃槂?!

As I understand their situation, the aircraft was mechanically sound. Wasn't it faulty software? If so, doesn't that sound familiar? If we need software to run "whatever the conveyance" why make things so darn complex that you need software in the first place?
 

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LOL, serega12! Just before I pressed Post reply I thought of the very same thing. Do you think Boeing hired a bunch of ex-automotive engineers 馃槂?!

As I understand their situation, the aircraft was mechanically sound. Wasn't it faulty software? If so, doesn't that sound familiar? If we need software to run "whatever the conveyance" why make things so darn complex that you need software in the first place?
Devil's advocate her... Software provides a method to change what is conceived to be a bug or error in the way an aircraft receives it instructions to perform. Software is easily modified, and can be changed while the aircraft is in the air or on ground or in a hanger. It was the MCAS that caused the 2 flights that flew into the ground (also the pilots was not trained well enough). Here is a good explanation of the MCAS...
The inside story of MCAS: How Boeing鈥檚 737 MAX system gained power and lost safeguards (just remember where Boeing is located)
Yes - I think the newer aircraft has a problem with all it computers and electronic equipment. It allows the pilots to give up control and not read the manuals as how the equipment works when there is a failure on the aircraft. Also the computer controls some things the pilot should be doing all the time: such as LANDING THE PLANE. I know cars/trucks wants to be much like a aircraft of now, let's see, uber cab crashes in the city (I think it was NYC,NY), uber cab kills human crossing highway. People can still make choices better than computers, we can think of thousand scenario's that would apply, someone may have not programed in a feature on a computer or a sensor did not work right such as on the MCAS.

Please don't think I would never fly (covid-19 stops me for now) but I would hop on an aircraft in a heartbeat to go the distance of A to B. It is still the safest way to get to point A to B, hands down. Plus at our age (or just me) I would have to stop and sleep in 8 hours of driving.
 

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I just saw the news on Honda recalls. Checked the VIN for recalls on my 2019 Ody EXL with NAV that I purchased less than a year ago. FOUR additional recalls!!! I already serviced it a few months ago for the rear power outlet recall. Honda quality sucks big time. Honda buyers of the newer models assembled by accountants and finance folks that Honda pooled on assembly lines during COVID - good luck to you!

2018-20 Ody Sliding Door Outer Handle Cables Safety Recall
2018-21 Multimodel Gauge Control Module SW Update Noncompliance
2019-20 Odyssey Rearview Camera Noncompliance
2019-20 Multimodel Front Control Box OTA Update Noncompliance


p.s. even my 06 EXL that was a huge waste of $$$ in service (besides engine everything including tranny got replaced there) didn't have that many recalls.
All the recalls you've listed were addressed on our 2020 Elite and had to wait a day for them to fix/update/replace everything.

I had the service manager pull up our Elites record on the computer so that I could see & confirm what was done.

The rear camera (entire assembly) and both door handle latches were REPLACED.

The Gauge Control and Control Box were all reflashed / software updated. The unit that they used to flash the gauge cluster was pretty big in what looked like a rolling suit case.

They're actually non-compliance preventative recalls. They saw something that can fail down the road and are offering to fix it for you on their dime before it fails. What exactly is the problem with that? 馃 I wish GM did the same and not wait for people to die before they issued their ignition switch recall.
Out of all available van options, Odyssey still has the highest safety ratings regardless of the recalls.
Forget about the recalls, wait until the repairs start piling up. This isn't your father's Honda. Our 2018 Odyssey (our 3rd Honda van) has had several recalls and repairs including, more recently: injector recall - replacement, engine management software reload, transmission hesitation and jerky shifting - cured for a few weeks by a transmission software update, knocking in steering system cured by replacement of the steering box and rack, knock from front suspension - cured by replacement of the upper control arms due to failed bushings. And here is the kicker - the van has 24,000 miles on it and is just under 3 years old. Its our last Honda.
serega12: well, if you don't see a problem with a car manufacturer issuing 5 recalls for the car less than a year old, then I don't really know what to tell you. I don't care how they call it 'preventive' / 'non-compliance', whatever.
The safety rating that you've mentioned has nothing to do with this. You can have a tank with "highest safety ratings" that breaks all the time and becomes the money pit once it is out of warranty.

I have Hybrid Accord made in Japan that has zero problems in the last 3 years.

Odysseys' quality is not good and I can guarantee that your Odyssey will cost you a lot to service once the warranty rans out. Ask me how I know this.
You hit the nail right on the head, serega12. This is true of most industries. For some reason, the big fad these days is to do everything half-assed or release products to a bunch of beta-testers (customers) who are willing to take the plunge with thousands of dollars just to point out all the things that are either terribly designed, poorly built, or don't work at all.

I too applaud Honda for stepping up to the plate and offering a proactive approach with their recalls but it is staggering the number of hours we as customers spend at the dealership or at least without our cars just because someone didn't get it right the first time. The big excuse that reads, "Cars are far more complex today so they can't possibly get them right the first time" doesn't cut it. Try telling that to Boeing. I know that's an unfair comparison but the principle is the same. They have to retain their customers and attract new ones. They can't do it with a crappy business model.

Either make the cars less complex or hire the talent who can get it right the first time. Japanese made cars have a stellar record. The ones I have bought from Japan were perfect. The North American made ones have been sort of all right but there have always been issues with the build quality, design, and reliability. Why is that?
Well guys the fact is that Honda is not what they used to be. Ever since they've been built / assembled in the North America the quality has tanked. Fact.

@Oddy11, I hear your pain man... and just because we're on a Honda forum, I'm not one to create my own bias to defend Honda lol like some... Reality is reality.

You're right though, Honda's reliability is crap (ever since it has been made in the US/Canada.)... fit and finish, tolerance levels, just overall build quality etc falls way short... There's a high probability of it becoming a money pit, which is why we got Honda Care; for the very reason in that we're not confident in the product anymore.

We we're going to get the new Hyundai Palisade Limited, which slaps Honda in the face with the quality, fit and finish, tolerance levels, features and reliability. The current Kia Sedona is far far far more reliable (in fact the most reliable and highest rated in quality) than the Honda Odyssey and the new Sedona coming out is going to do the same in slapping Honda and Toyota in the face with its fit and finish, quality, features, tolerance levels etc... all the while with a 10 Year / 100K warranty.

If we didn't need something NOW and only if the Palisade had more room for the kids stuff and/or if the 2022 Sedona was already out, we wouldn't have gotten our Elite right now. I'm still bummed that a top trim Elite is missing a 360 view camera lol.. what the heck?

With all the gadgets like the push button gear selector and the young & untested in house Honda 10 speed transmission, there's no way that I'm going to take my chances. Some of the dealerships did offer the whole lifetime warranty thing (power train that is); however, it does NOT cover your gadgets and tech stuff. That's why we bit the bullet and got Honda Care (near cost). Honestly, that's the only way I'd be able to sleep at night since the short factory warranty on Honda products is a joke.

@Hodna, the main reason that caused Honda's quality to go into crap mode is due to the inferior quality control in North America. The fact is that cars built here in NA sucks compared to the cars built overseas. The mentality and workmanship is miles apart. Back in the day when Honda was still imported into NA, we (US automaker white collar corporate goons) went to visit the factories overseas. What they had realized is how in the factories overseas they get their tolerances right from the beginning so that the product comes out right to begin with, whereas auto makers here in NA compensate for tolerance levels after the math. ie.. if a door didn't align up correctly, they had guys at the end of the assembly line with rubber mallets to try and fix the issues, rather than to get it right from the very beginning...Detroit auto makers cough. There is absolutely no surprise why domestic cars suck when it comes to the build quality. It's quite terrible.

I'm still triggered that our Elite is made in Alabama. There are so many fit and finish issues with gaps in the fender, hood not aligning evenly etc... it's such a shame.

It's not like the good old days anymore where cars were made "simple." With all the tech and gadgets, again, there's no way I'd be able to sleep at night without a warranty like Honda Care that will cover everything. Honestly, I'm not too worried about the actual engine, but the transmission is still very uncertain and for anyone to say that they have full confidence in the new 10 speed transmission that has little to no (data) history yet is being unrealistic and biased, just because it's a Honda.

The simple fact is that Honda is NOT what they used to be... brand snobbishness has always made me chuckle.

With all that being said, I really like my Elite lol. It's a nice looking rig inside and out, in fact the best looking all around IMO. With Honda Care it alleviates any worries so who cares right?

Had we purchased any one of the current model vans right now we would have had buyers remorse for sure, since the 2022's are so different from the current models. However, I'm not digging the 2021 Ody's face lift... IMO I think it looks very bland and not as stylish as the 18-20 models. The 2022 Ody just looks funky, quite a turn off really. Those taillights on the new 22 are just...SMH. On the other hand the Sienna is going full on space ship mode (looks) with an i4 hybrid so forget towing there, although it looks very stylish... and the new Sedona with lots to like is just too far out for us to wait...unfortunate, but oh well.

The bottom line is, if one is buying a newer Honda today, get a warranty (Honda Care) if you plan to keep the car longer than its factory warranty or forever hold your peace. Reality is reality and as always "TO EACH THEIR OWN." - It's your money, choice and your happiness. :)
 

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All excellent points, guys.

It makes me wonder if Honda, and others for that matter, do recalls based on their legal team advice versus the desire for customer satisfaction. No carmaker is in the business of making cars. They are in the business of making money. The only way to do that is to keep costs down and profits high.

I'm starting to think that recalls are based on what they can get away with versus customer satisfaction. If they can get away without doing a certain recall, they will. My knocking engine is a prime example. It is not on the safety list, so why bother? I think it's been established that the front main bearing is out of tolerance on the cars that knock. It's an expensive fix, so they do anything to avoid a recall. If recalls were motivated by "customer first" motos, all our knocking cars would have been recalled and fixed by now. I have been reassured that the engine won't fail. Statistically, a few will blow apart. How long can an engine last where the main bearing is a couple of thousandths out of tolerance? The bean counters probably told management that it's cheaper to replace a few engines that fail rather than recall all the knocking engines and fix them. Meanwhile, we put up with piss-poor QC and a noisy engine. To reinforce Unlock42's recent post, the issue of a knocking engine wouldn't have even left the shores of Japan because it would have never happened in the first place.

Japan lost the battle but they won the war.
 

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All excellent points, guys.

It makes me wonder if Honda, and others for that matter, do recalls based on their legal team advice versus the desire for customer satisfaction. No carmaker is in the business of making cars. They are in the business of making money. The only way to do that is to keep costs down and profits high.

I'm starting to think that recalls are based on what they can get away with versus customer satisfaction. If they can get away without doing a certain recall, they will. My knocking engine is a prime example. It is not on the safety list, so why bother? I think it's been established that the front main bearing is out of tolerance on the cars that knock. It's an expensive fix, so they do anything to avoid a recall. If recalls were motivated by "customer first" motos, all our knocking cars would have been recalled and fixed by now. I have been reassured that the engine won't fail. Statistically, a few will blow apart. How long can an engine last where the main bearing is a couple of thousandths out of tolerance? The bean counters probably told management that it's cheaper to replace a few engines that fail rather than recall all the knocking engines and fix them. Meanwhile, we put up with piss-poor QC and a noisy engine. To reinforce Unlock42's recent post, the issue of a knocking engine wouldn't have even left the shores of Japan because it would have never happened in the first place.

Japan lost the battle but they won the war.
Well said. It's 100% about the money, you're absolutely right. Hence, the N.A. Factories to bypass tarrifs and other incentives, right down to how the cars manual and service schedule are written. It's all with a purpose 馃.

Dealerships welcome recalls because they all get paid from the manufacturer to fix the problems. Huge financial incentive. Very twisted right? So that makes you think...

A huge part of a dealerships business model are from the parts and services. It plays a big role in keeping them a float. It reminds me of the medical industry relying on insurance money... You know they love that sweet deal and creating those invoices, because they are getting paid full retail / msrp lol.. Pun intended.

If one thinks that salesman are the only sleazy snakes, it extends far beyond that with many heads to the snake at a Stealership. You've got the finance and insurance guys to the back end service center who thrive on customer problems.

Remember all the transmission issues with the older Ody's with the ZF? That was sweet nector for dealerships, because for every recall, problems, issues etc... They are banking due to getting paid by Honda to address those issues...

That's why the dealerships don't give a rats tail about the reliability of your car. They welcome issues and for those that are uninformed, don't think for once that it's not beneath them to pull dirty tricks to create a problem so that they can offer you another solution.

Business is business, I get it. But being unethical is dirty business, so not all business practices are created equal.

The money saved by taking short cuts does indeed outweigh the consequences for building the cars here so they're (Honda and Others) perfectly content with that. Sucks for us, money for them.

The only way to alleviate this reality is to either get rid of the car before the factory warranty ends or to add an extended warranty that will keep you covered in the event of the inevitable.
 

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a 20-30 minute oil change tomorrow just turned into 3-5 hours of recall nonsense.
(and our dealer stopped using Uber thx to Coronavirus)
 

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@unlock42 they don't like recalls. Or any warranty work for that matter. They only get paid 30 minutes per recall. That means they are either grossly underpaid or its the cheapest hourly guy doing the work. Which one do you think it is? 馃し馃徎鈥嶁檪锔
 
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@unlock42 they don't like recalls. Or any warranty work for that matter. They only get paid 30 minutes per recall. That means they are either grossly underpaid or its the cheapest hourly guy doing the work. Which one do you think it is? 馃し馃徎鈥嶁檪锔
Although some recalls may have a cap, that doesn't apply across the board. With safety recalls it's mandated by law for them to fix it so that's where a cap may apply.

With transmission type of work for example, Honda pays the dealership for any repairs done. The dealership welcomes this, while Honda treats it like an insurance pay out.

Logically it makes no business sense for a dealership to get paid only 30 minutes of warranty related work, especially when you're able to bring in your car into any Honda dealership. They'd go broke as there is very little money in selling just new cars alone(unless they sell at msrp+ shafting the uninformed).

The dealership has a lot of moving parts and its biggest profit margin is with used cars, warranty packages, parts and services and lastly new cars.
 

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There are likely some "30-minute cap" items but we also hear about cars sitting at the dealership for several hours for recall work. I believe the recall for my two sliding doors was four hours. They may have streamlined that process by now but it doesn't make sense for Honda Corp to only pay 30 minutes for a four-hour job. They must have some sort of formula.
 

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If you look at TSB instructions for the recall work, it tells you exactly how much they'll bill for it as warranty work.
 

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