[smetzger]

Hi,

I have about 9k on my 09.

Dealer did oil change at 6134 miles. They did not rotate the tires so I assume that was not on the indicator at the time.

I am currently at 60% for oil change and have no indicator for rotating the tires.

9k thats a long time with no tire rotation. So is something wrong with my indicator? was it indicating a rotation at the first oil change?
When should the rotation indicator come on?

Thanks,
Scott

 

[nicomtl]

Do you remember the code that was displayed? The owner's manual has an explanation of the maintenance minder system and a table with the meaning of the codes.

Nicolas

 

[dvpatel]

The tire rotation code shows up every oil change. I agree that its too long so I rotate my tires with every oil change which is at around 7K miles.

 

[smetzger]

The tire rotation code shows up every other oil change. I agree that its too long so I rotate my tires with every oil change which is at around 7K miles.

Interesting, wonder what happens if you change your oil every 3500 miles and reset the minder when you change it.

In general when does the extra maintenance 'show up' on the MM? When its needed, or when you get down to a certain percentage on the oil?
If its down to a certain percentage on the oil, what happens if you change it before it gets down that low?

Thanks,

 

[dvpatel]

Now why would you change your oil at 3500 miles when you have a MM system and even old cars don't need 3K OCIs. I suggest you search some more on maintenance minder and OCIs and read up as there are several discussions on the MM and on OCIs. I stick with the MM on my Oddy and stick with the Maintenance Required light on the Accord (idiot light at 7500 miles after last reset).

Stop wasting perfectly good oil and follow the MM.

 

[skinny2]

Interesting, wonder what happens if you change your oil every 3500 miles and reset the minder when you change it.

In general when does the extra maintenance 'show up' on the MM? When its needed, or when you get down to a certain percentage on the oil?
If its down to a certain percentage on the oil, what happens if you change it before it gets down that low?

Thanks,

The maintenance only shows up at the point it requires an oil change. It doesn't matter how often you reset....it will call for A1, B1, etc. as it needs those based on accumulated miles/monitoring.

Not sure what it does for calc'ing the tire rotation if you're changing the oil more often than needed. I guess my question is...if you're ignoring the MM for oil changes...why would you pay it any attention for tire rotation??

 

[michaelj3]

The tire rotation code shows up every other oil change. I agree that its too long so I rotate my tires with every oil change which is at around 7K miles.

Interesting. I don't ever recall an A or B service showing up on my 2008 without a 1.

Obviously everyone's driving is different, but for me, in my 45K miles, always got a 1 when the minder came on. Usually around 7000 miles between the wrench lights. Fewer in winter, more in summer, but average around 7k which made sense for rotations.

Incidentally, when I traded the van w/ 45K miles, the OEM LX4 Tires all had 3/32 or 4/32 of tread left, so they were due before winter but wore pretty evenly.

 

[dvpatel]

Interesting. I don't ever recall an A or B service showing up on my 2008 without a 1.

Obviously everyone's driving is different, but for me, in my 45K miles, always got a 1 when the minder came on. Usually around 7000 miles between the wrench lights. Fewer in winter, more in summer, but average around 7k which made sense for rotations.

You are right. I too have never seen a MM code without the 1. I only have 22K on our 2007 and have only gotten 2 or 3 codes (first time, I was at 30% and my 1 year was up at 5K on the clock so I never got a code) and each one of 'em had a 1.

 

[skinny2]

I get a 2 (forget a or b) around every 30k i believe. Seems like it calls for a transmission fluid change? I can't keep track between these vehicles....but I do know I've seen the 2. Seems like it was just recently (70k ish) but I had alreday drained/filled the tranny fluid.

 

[michaelj3]

... (first time, I was at 30% and my 1 year was up at 5K on the clock so I never got a code) and each one of 'em had a 1.

So, question for you, when you got to 30% and had oil changed, did you reset the MM?

If so, this apparently is the flaw in the system: wrench goes on w/ oil life, and accumulates remainder of maintenance and "rounds" it to nearest oil life interval. But, if you reset minder before oil life reaches 15%, you Never get the codes.

I wonder what Honda would say if a person religiously always changed oil at 30% and reset minder, and no other codes ever came on? (Is that possible???)

Note: The manual does say "Don't change the oil the first time until the MM comes on" and then goes on to say in the maintenance section to change oil at 12 months, regardless of MM code or not.

 

[smetzger]

I wonder what Honda would say if a person religiously always changed oil at 30% and reset minder, and no other codes ever came on? (Is that possible???)
[/B]

Yes, that is what I was getting at.

Just got off the line with my service advisor at my dealer. He confirmed that you will never see any codes until the 15% mark.
He also said tire rotation is scheduled every 10k miles.

So... here is what I am going to do.
1) Change the oil every 3500 miles (I know that may seem excessive but get back to me when you have an engine lasts more than 324k miles with your extended interval)
2) rotate the tires every other change
3) Change the transmission fluid more often than required
4) reset the minder at 15%, so I can see the codes.

The service adviser also said he has a schedule of maintenance by miles and will give it to me. I'll scan it in an post a copy when I get it.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[skinny2]

Some dealerships have their own "recommended" service intervals. Privately they're known as the money-generating schedules (my family used to own several dealerships...I know the biz). Whatever you get won't be signed-off by Honda so it means beans to me. You might as well make your own which you have. If that is what you need to sleep at night, by all means do your own thing.

I don't see why you would even care what the MM tells you so who cares when/if you reset it? If you have no faith in what it is telling you...just ignore it. You can see in the manual what service the vehicle needs so just use your own judgement and perform the service at the intervals you feel are adequate. There is no doubt that interval will be more frequent than what the MM will tell you.

Extended intervals? To me that assumes you're going BEYOND what the manufacturer recommends. I have owned several that were well over 200k miles when I sold them. Service was performed to manufacturer specs (Toyota at 7k intervals, and VW at 10k intervals on synthetic). I also had a Dodge diesel that was on 10k intervals that went 350k miles before being sold and it was used nearly 100% for towing. I realize a diesel is not a fair comparison to a gas engine but either way...I'm getting back to you.

 

[dvpatel]

So, question for you, when you got to 30% and had oil changed, did you reset the MM?

If so, this apparently is the flaw in the system: wrench goes on w/ oil life, and accumulates remainder of maintenance and "rounds" it to nearest oil life interval. But, if you reset minder before oil life reaches 15%, you Never get the codes.

I wonder what Honda would say if a person religiously always changed oil at 30% and reset minder, and no other codes ever came on? (Is that possible???)

Note: The manual does say "Don't change the oil the first time until the MM comes on" and then goes on to say in the maintenance section to change oil at 12 months, regardless of MM code or not.

Yes. I did reset the MM. I knew that the first code is always A1 so I just changed the oil myself, rotated the tires (which I intended to do with each oil change regardless of what the MM said) and reset the code in month 13 of the ownership at ~5,000 miles on the clock.

 

[dvpatel]

I know that may seem excessive but get back to me when you have an engine lasts more than 324k miles with your extended interval

No offence but do you have an example of an engine that did NOT last more than 324K miles and had engine damage due to the said extended interval when the manufacturer did NOT recommend 3K oil changes?

I might hate Honda for the design flaws and also for the problems and the way they're dealing with the tranny issues and other issues but I do have faith in their engineers. I myself don't have an engineering degree but I do trust the Honda engineers on this whole OCI thing.

To give me better peace of mind, I just Synthetic instead of their recommended dino oil.

There are several other threads on the validity or the lack there of of the 3K OCIs and I know I cannot change your mind but your argument asking us if we have an engine that lasted over 324K miles is not right as I am sure you don't have concrete proof that a failed engine failed due to insufficient oil changes when Honda themselves have been recommending 7500 mile OCIs since the late 90's and even before.

 

[michaelj3]

I might hate Honda for the design flaws and also for the problems and the way they're dealing with the tranny issues and other issues but I do have faith in their engineers. I myself don't have an engineering degree but I do trust the Honda engineers on this whole OCI thing.

To give me better peace of mind, I just Synthetic instead of their recommended dino oil.

I'm with you dvpatel. I do the MM, pick up a 5 quart jug of 5W20 Mobil 1 from Wal Mart for $21.00, and my dealer changes the oil w/ my oil for a reasonable price.

FWIW, my 2004 Suburban has GM Oil Life System, and it goes about the same 6-8k miles between changes. 80K on the clock on that one, had Mobil 1 since 1st oil change. My Father-in-Law's 2000 Silverado 1500 has 190k on the clock, it gets same treatment. Knock on wood, no engine problems on either of them.

Net, stick with the engineers on OCI's and save the environment a little. Thats my view at least. My guess is I will tire of the vehicle before I have engine failure due to following MFG Recommended Maint Schedule and augment w/ quality synthetic oil.

Now, regarding the MM codes never coming on if you reset before 15%. Still seems like a bit of a design flaw, but I guess they figured people would prefer to save environment and $$ by using the recommended interval. So, I would rotate tires at 7-10k, based on what others report about MM codes, and advice I have always gotten from tire shops in the past.

Finally, just to fuel the fire a little more. Reading the maint schedule, it says A service is "Replace Engine Oil" and B service is "Replace Engine Oil and Filter". So, how many of you actually don't replace the filter at A? This is another one where I just spend the extra $5 and probably overkill a little by replacing it anyway.

 

[dvpatel]

Now, regarding the MM codes never coming on if you reset before 15%. Still seems like a bit of a design flaw, but I guess they figured people would prefer to save environment and $$ by using the recommended interval. So, I would rotate tires at 7-10k, based on what others report about MM codes, and advice I have always gotten from tire shops in the past.

Finally, just to fuel the fire a little more. Reading the maint schedule, it says A service is "Replace Engine Oil" and B service is "Replace Engine Oil and Filter". So, how many of you actually don't replace the filter at A? This is another one where I just spend the extra $5 and probably overkill a little by replacing it anyway.

There is a way to see the next upcoming MM code buried in one of the numerous MM related threads. One guy posted that. The feature is there for folks who are planning a long trip and want to take care of upcoming maintenance before hand.

You're right about the A and B difference too. I replace the filter too but I am sure if the filter is not replaced and its a quality filter, you'd be just fine but why take that chance when a filter is only $5 (or for me only $2.85 or less).

 

[dvpatel]

BTW. Here is the procedure for getting the next upcoming service indicator.

http://www.odyclub.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27674&highlight=upcoming+and+code

http://www.odyclub.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41354&highlight=upcoming+and+code

 

[smetzger]

I don't see why you would even care what the MM tells you so who cares when/if you reset it? If you have no faith in what it is telling you...just ignore it. You can see in the manual what service the vehicle needs so just use your own judgement and perform the service at the intervals you feel are adequate. There is no doubt that interval will be more frequent than what the MM will tell you.

Well, that would be fine for oil changes. But... the problem is that manual does not say what service the vehicle needs. It just says use the MM.

But the manual doesn't say 'don't reset until 15%'.

So, either wait until 15% or use 'upcoming maintenance' procedure described above (which I don't believe is in the manual)

I don't mind the MM.
I do mind Honda not providing the maintenance intervals in miles/years.

You shouldn't need to come to a forum and to see what maintenance will be needed in the next 15k/year.

 

[skinny2]

Here's what the books says to perform based on the codes:

A - Oil Change

B/B1 - Oil change
- Service Front and Rear Brakes
- Inspect parking brake adjustment
- Inspect tie rod ends, steering gear box and boots
- Inspect suspention components
- Inspect driveshaft boots
- Inspect brake hoses and lines (including ABS)
- Check all fluid levels, condition of fluid and check for leaks
- Inspect exhaust system
- Inspect fuel system and connections

1 - Rotate tires ** inspect for wear and adjust pressure

2 - Replace air cleaner element. Replace dust and pollen filter. Inspect and adjust drive belt.

3 - Replace transmission fluid ( use only honda ATF or MTF)

4 - replace spark plugs. Replace Timing belt, inspect water pump. inspect valve clearance, cold engine.

5 - replace engine coolant


So now that you know what maintenance items are on the table, you can arbitrarily make up when you want to perform that service....just like you're doing with oil change. Ignore the MM all together.

 

[EE4Life]

See my posts in this thread about the MM system:

http://www.odyclub.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55683

and use these links below instead of those in the thread, since they recently changed:

Pages 6-7
http://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SN/A050900.PDF

Page 3
http://techinfo.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SN/A051100.PDF