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Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone have an opinion on the Krex Graphite oil additive? I normally shy away from this kind of thing.

Trouble is, it came from the dealer with it in it. On the plus side, they throw in a 100,000 mile/84 month warranty on the engine with a $5,000 limit as long as you let the dealer add the "Krex" to the oil at each oil change. That sounds good to me, but I've always been leary about additives.

1) Has anyone else heard of this? Does your dealer do it?
2) What's your opinion?

www.krexinc.com is the link. I'm suspicious. Sounds too much like Slick 50.


Oh . . I just took delivery of a '01 SS EX this morning.
 

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I've never heard of it personally. My dealer made no mention of it.

I'll ask around and see what I can come up with.



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Jim
'01 GG EX
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I had the dealer change the oil/filter at 25 miles to get the stuff out.

Everything I read and know to be true says solid particles floating in your oil are bad.
 

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I don't know anything about Krex. It may be legit, or a scam. What I do know is that you are assuming Krex will be around long enough to honor their warranty, if they honor it at all. People have problems with Honda and other major auto companies getting major mechanical repairs in warranty, let alone trying to work with a dealer or third party to get reimbursement. Just something else to consider, whether or not the product works as advertised. Some manufacturers specifically recommend against ANY oil additives. I don't know Honda's policy, but it might be worth checking to make sure it doesn't affect the Honda warranty.


As for the oil change/filter at 25 miles. I have always changed oil in my new vehicles around 1000 miles to get rid of any break-in particles. With the Odyssey, both the manual and website advise against changing your oil until the first recommended service interval (3750 or 7500 miles depending on your driving conditions). Apparently, there is some special break-in oil or additive in the crank case from the factory. Local dealers seem to have conflicting opinions on this. I'm going to stick with 3750 for the Odyssey against my better judgement, just to stick with what "The Book" recommends. In the end, I bet it probably doesn't make much difference.


Here's the Honda link to some info:
http://www.honda2001.com/owners/service_parts/faqs_fluids.html

[This message has been edited by caviller (edited 02-13-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I see what you mean about the oil in the crank case. This was on the Honda site:

"American Honda strongly recommends this special oil be left in the engine long enough for these wear patterns to develop, usually until the first maintenance interval specified in your Owner's Manual, based on your specific driving conditions. "


So what's worse? Leaving an additive in there (that the DEALER put in before delivery) that would likely hinder breakin (and perhaps do more harm than good), or get the oil out and putting fresh oil in, going against the recommendations of American Honda?

I talked to American Honda and they said not to worry about the factory oil. And I paraphrase "It's a pure oil with special additives" but he indicated that an engineer said it wouldn't be a problem.



[This message has been edited by gram_parsons (edited 02-13-2001).]
 

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Honda of Clear Lake (Houston) adds the Krex at every oil change. Next time I go in for service, I hope to remember to show them in the owners manual where it says not to use additives (if I remember where in the manual I saw it).
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I sent the following to the Krex Website:

Dear Krex:
I just took delivery of a new '01 Honda Odyssey today.
I was informed by my dealer that they added "KREX" to my oil before
delivering my new '01 Honda Odyssey. This troubles me for numerous reasons:
1) If it's such a great lubricant, how does it affect the natural "break in"
process? Should not the engine first be allowed to break in first? How will
it affect the long-term health of the engine?
2) If graphite is so great, then how come a simple search of "oil additive
graphite" on yahoo.com returns a vast array of products bragging that they
do NOT contain graphite?
3) What is this I read about graphite particles being HARMFUL? Clogging
filters, causing excess wear, etc?
4) Where is your supporting documentation? Where are the success stories?
This to me seems like a scam between you and the dealer just to simply
increase service revenue at the dealership (gee, can't stop at the jiffy
lube because I gotta get my snake oil . . I mean KREX).
5) What does Honda have to say about additives? Honda claims they aren't
needed. Why should I believe you over them?
Sincerely,
Doug Wilkerson
Tuscaloosa, Alabama


Interestingly, I got a response back from the PRESIDENT of Krex (see the following note). Perhaps I shouldn't be so impressed . . Krex might be a one-man outfit working out of a basement somewhere.


Mr. Wilkerson:
Your message was forwarded to me from our web site supervisor. Your
questions are all valid, and I would like to have the opportunity to answer
them personally. At your convenience, could you please call me, toll-free,
at 1-800-323-KREX (5739).
Thank you for your inquiry, and I look forward to speaking with you.

Regards,
Bill Springer

******************************
William G. Springer
President
[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
Krex, Inc.
450 Skokie Blvd. #200
Northbrook, Illinois 60062
847-753-9955
847-753-9167 (fax)
******************************

Think I should give him a call?


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'01 SS Honda Odyssey EX
'99 F150 XL Supercab
'00 Kawasaki ZR-7
 

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Absolutely! Give him a chance to defend his product and then tell us what he says. You're right about additives in oil - remember Slick 50 w/ Teflon?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I never called back . . . I got a little hot under the collar because they put it in my new ODY without my permission, and I wanted it OUT. They drained it and I don't intend to use it again, so there's not much point in calling.

I'm sure he'll have these great arguments up and down for his product (which is is job and his profession) and I'll be in no position to argue with him, except to say that my Ody manual says not to use additives.

The thing is, it might be WORSE than snake oil. I wouldn't mind if I thought it were benign . .heck, it'd be worth it for the 7 year 100k engine warranty. I was just worried that it would be harmful . . I thought suspended solids were generally bad.

Still, I had them drain the oil at 25 miles to get it out, and am unsure what effect this will have on natural breakin. I assume not much, and they just put Castrol GTX back in so it should be fine. An engineer at Honda America said so, but then he would have said that no matter what I think.

Somehow I think the kiddies will destroy everything else long before the engine gives up.

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'01 SS Honda Odyssey EX
'99 F150 XL Supercab
'00 Kawasaki ZR-7
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by gram_parsons:
Somehow I think the kiddies will destroy everything else long before the engine gives up.</font>
Amen!


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Jim
'01 GG EX
 

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Just for the heck of it, go to www.ftc.gov site and search for "slick 50".

I always see these "miracle additives" that were "developed for use by NASA in the space shuttle program". Just how many internal combustion engines does the shuttle have? Note that they don't say that they were actually used in the program-or in what.
I have also written to some of the companies whose mechanics were quoted in some of the ads and the companies replied that they had no one by that name working for them, and did not use the products.

Al
 

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Yeah. "Developed for NASA" is a good one. But my all-time-favorite is using the term "Space Age." They're still using that term to mean "the latest, modern, cool, high-tech thing" but of course the Space Age was the late 60s to early 70s when we went to the moon. You know...with computers less powerful that what you'll find in today's typical dishwasher.

I think the Gremiln was Space Age, come to think of it.

- Darell

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"Some people say you can't take it with you. I'm taking it with me." - Steve Marin
Future: 2002 EXL-NAV, TW (with RES wanted!)
Current: 2001 Civic EX, silver
Leaving: 2001 Volvo V70 T5, white/graphite
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by darelldd:
Yeah.
I think the Gremiln was Space Age, come to think of it.

- Darell

</font>
LOL-You are so right! Another twist on the theme is the "Developed BY NASA"etc. Did you ever wonder why NASA would go thru all the trouble of developing something and then give/sell it to some unknown company? Why didn't the big companies outbid them? We should complain. Why don't they ask one of the big lubricant companies to develop the product? (they could probably buy it off the shelf at Auto-Zone). But we may be assuming NASA stands for the space agency. Maybe it stands for Norms Auto Salvage Auction or something like that, and the space program they are speaking of is one to make more room in the used car lot. Who knows?
Oh-Oh,Off topic again.
Back on topic-Honda does not recommend the use of additives, according to the owners manual. It would also be hard to deny using a graphite additive as that stuff plates out all over. Graphite additives were first used-and since discarded-about the early 60's, I believe, (although I did have an oil change in Canmore, Canada where the Mopar diesel oil looked to have graphite added).
Regards
Al

Al
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by gnuhcw:
Snake oil or not you decide after reading http://www.vtr.org/maintain/oil-additives.html</font>
gnuhcw- I have had that article for several years and believe in it. I was in contact with a retired chemical engineer from a major company and he explained a lot. I since switched ISP providers ( dumped AOL) and can't retrieve stored e-mails on the topic or I would post them.

Regards
Al
 

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In reference to albaby's comments - I tried checking out some testimonials for a magic water treatment device (magnet) because my boss wanted to use it and didn't really care what I said about it. The testimonials were on letterheads from lots of big, well known companies but it turns out that some janitor had written it. In some cases, if you could get hold of the person, they usually said something like - Engineering won't let us use it, but it worked. Some people will do anything to get a letterhead testimonial and figure it will never be checked. Good oil and frequent changes are all that is needed.
John
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by jkues:
In reference to albaby's comments - I tried checking out some testimonials for a magic water treatment device (magnet) because my boss wanted to use it and didn't really care what I said about it. The testimonials were on letterheads from lots of big, well known companies but it turns out that some janitor had written it. In some cases, if you could get hold of the person, they usually said something like - Engineering won't let us use it, but it worked. Some people will do anything to get a letterhead testimonial and figure it will never be checked. Good oil and frequent changes are all that is needed.
John
</font>
John-you could always have strapped the magnet to the fuel line in your Ody to orient the gas molecules in a straight line. Be careful-if you put the magnet on wrong, the fuel molecules may turn sideways and plug your filter or injectors.( I don't know what happens to them in the injection or compression phase. Do they orient sideways or up and down?) or strapped them to your wrist or ankles to increase blood flow and prevent heart attacks, arthritis, high blood pressure. low blood pressure, impotence, headaches, infertilty, zits, etc. You get the idea. Most of these were claims I have seen in ads for magnets.

I worked in a nuclear power plant. Their water had to be exceptionally pure. They used multi-millions of dollars worth of charcoal filters, demineralizers, degassifiers, reverse osmosis units, filters etc. Not a magnet anywhere among them. How little they knew.
Regards
Al




[This message has been edited by albaby (edited 09-11-2001).]
 
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