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Discussion Starter #1
Hey folks,

I need to buy the A/F or LAF sensors for my van. I looked at the OEM prices and its almost $180 for each sensor. Is there any aftermarket sensors I can use or will I have to use the OEM sensors?


Thanks
 

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If you want to go aftermarket I would suggest to get NTK or Denso. But I prefer NTK 1st as they are one of the best sensor you can buy. Are you getting any code or symptoms?
 

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Denso is the OEM. That's what I would buy.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yes. I am getting HORRIBLE mileage, 300 miles out of 22 gallons! Before I used to get 350-370 miles. I checked the sensors reading and it is reading too much on the rich side I believe.
 

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Yes. I am getting HORRIBLE mileage, 300 miles out of 22 gallons! Before I used to get 350-370 miles. I checked the sensors reading and it is reading too much on the rich side I believe.
Woah...hold on there fella! There's SO much more to it than that. What are you looking at to tell you it's running "on the rich side?" What are your long and short term fuel trim numbers at idle and 2500 rpm? Also, A/F sensors are totally different animals than O2 sensors and can't be read the same way.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Here is a video I just took. In the past when I checked the readings, it was reading 17% (plus or minus cant remember exactly, i think minus) please forgive me if I don't know what I am talking about :nervous:

 

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Yeah, it looks like it's running a bit rich but the computer is compensating by reducing fuel so it's still staying in stoichiometry. I also notice, however, that the fuel system was going in and out of closed loop due to insufficient temperature. Are you using the Muzzler and, if so, which resistor? Any other modifications?
 

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Also, try holding the RPM at 2500RPM +/-100 for 10 seconds and record the MAF sensor data. You should have between 9.1-12.9 gm/s.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Yeah, it looks like it's running a bit rich but the computer is compensating by reducing fuel so it's still staying in stoichiometry. I also notice, however, that the fuel system was going in and out of closed loop due to insufficient temperature. Are you using the Muzzler and, if so, which resistor? Any other modifications?
The red resistor since day one, the temp always stays at 157 and sometimes gets to 160 if its 100 degrees outside.
 

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The red resistor since day one, the temp always stays at 157 and sometimes gets to 160 if its 100 degrees outside.
That's too cold and could be why you're mileage is not good. Try going to the blue resistor and see what happens. You should not be going in and out of closed loop like that. Open loop means the computer is using it's own pre-stored data to run the fuel injection instead of A/F and O2 sensor data. Open loop is for when the vehicle is cold. Once it warms up it goes into closed loop and brings in the sensor data to run the fuel injection.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Also, try holding the RPM at 2500RPM +/-100 for 10 seconds and record the MAF sensor data. You should have between 9.1-12.9 gm/s.
Okay so the MAF is reading 18 gm/s at 2500 rpms...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
That's too cold and could be why you're mileage is not good. Try going to the blue resistor and see what happens. You should not be going in and out of closed loop like that. Open loop means the computer is using it's own pre-stored data to run the fuel injection instead of A/F and O2 sensor data. Open loop is for when the vehicle is cold. Once it warms up it goes into closed loop and brings in the sensor data to run the fuel injection.
But the mileage lost has occurred recently (few weeks now) I had the VCMuzzler with the red resistor for almost 3 years now.
 

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Yeah, but your vehicle is not running at proper temperature so that MAF reading may be correct for the cooler temp. You need to get the ECT temp up above 158F to do the check for the MAF. Change to the blue resistor and see what happens. You're running the red and running the vehicle too cold. We know the engine isn't really running that cold but it's going in and out of closed loop and whenever it's in open loop it's using the preprogrammed fuel numbers for a cold engine.
 

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But the mileage lost has occurred recently (few weeks now) I had the VCMuzzler with the red resistor for almost 3 years now.
Uh, the Muzzler has only been out just over a year. Trust me...going back and forth between open and closed loop is not good.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Uh, the Muzzler has only been out just over a year. Trust me...going back and forth between open and closed loop is not good.
yeah whatever but I got it in the very beginning when verbatim introduced it. (Feels like 2-3 years)
 

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You can do what you like. I'd really suggest going to the blue resistor (or no Muzzler at all) and then see what the fuel trims do. For whatever reason I saw your fuel system go out of closed loop, into open loop, twice on your video.

I know you don't have a rich code (yet) but your fuel trims are on the rich side of normal (negative fuel trims mean the computer is reducing fuel to keep the mixture correct.) If you did have a rich code the service manual for the 07-10 models says to first check fuel pressure, then check the MAF for the spec I mentioned above. In order to check the MAF spec you need to hold the engine speed at 3000 rpm until the radiator fan comes on then let it idle before doing the 2500RPM +/-100RPM MAF check. If the MAF gm/s is good then it says to check the valve clearances. If the valve clearances are good then it says to replace the injectors. If the MAF sensor data is not in spec then it says to replace MAF sensor. That's a lot of parts swapping but nowhere in there does it talk about replacing an A/F or O2 sensor unless there is a code for one.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thanks for the info. I will probably have to get the valve adjustment done. I asked the service advisor and he said I dont need the adjustment, even the tech said so. Since I am at 135k miles, I think I should wait till 150k miles to do the adjustment. So my air fuel sensors are okay then?
 

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Ranger, I don't have my ScanGauge ii affixed to either of our Gen 2's right now, but for our 2002 and 2003 the shift schedule changes at exactly 157-deg C from that particular ECT sensor (I think ours has a pair of them).

It switches from open loop to closed loop well before even getting to 157-deg C. I'll have to hook it up again and find out when that particular transition happens.

I just changed out the cat and exhaust pipe (everything between the downpipe and muffler) on our 1998 Accord. The monolith in the cat was essentially gone, but not clogging the exhaust. However, we got a CEL and P0420 code (as expected) for catalyst efficiency. Immediately, our fuel economy did drop noticeably.

After replacing the cat and exhaust pipe (the old one was welded to the old cat), MPG went back up as well as regaining smoother running.

The reason I mention the catalytic converter information is your sig line...your down pipes have no catalytic converters.

Coolant bypass and thermal gaskets....I'm unfamiliar with those mods. You also have the short ram intake/cold air intake. If it's short, it's pulling air from a pretty hot part of the engine bay.

There are a lot of variables here that separate your current setup from a van with stock induction and exhaust. I'm wondering if these are playing any part in the current difficulties with the van.

OF
 
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