Honda Odyssey Forum banner

1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
786 Posts
I'm not familiar with financing, so I can't really comment, but I can tell you that your going to be asked why you want to lease rather than buy....:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
463 Posts
Okay, I'll ask. Why lease? Maybe you could buy whatever vehicle you just finished leasing, maybe even with smaller payments, and then in 2014, you will have some equity. Maybe before long you can do without a car payment all together. Sorry, my Dave Ramsey side came out. Maybe some leasing members will answer the question you asked. I am curious, though, about your last leased vehicle that was valued at $23k.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Heres the story...

We bought a '08 RDX a month ago that come to find out has been in an accident and the longer we have it the more problems we're having with it (squeeks, rattles, headlights, etc.) not to mention the 15mpg on premium fuel and mandatory synthetic oil. We owe $22k on it, and I'm having a real problem paying that on a car with this many problems.

So, the Honda store said they can give us $17.5K for the Acura. We also have an '05 Accord we are trading in for $6k to make up the difference, which in turn adds $1500 as a down payment on the Odyssey.

So it's actually $17.5K + $6k = $23.5k - $22k owed on the Acura = $1500 down.

I obviously made a mistake with buying the Acura which I'm trying to dig out of.

Hence the lease on the Odyssey for the same payment as the Acura.

Option B would be to purchase a Certified Used Ody.

But at this point I'm a little sour on the idea of buying a used car, certified or not, especially when it's not the current model.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
50 Posts
Here's what we paid for a Celestial Blue Metallic/Gray EX-L w/RES...

Sales Price: $33,431.00
Trade value: $22,050.00 (2008 EX-L w/RES, 20k miles)
Gross Cap Cost: $34940.70
Cap Cost Reduction: $2746.78
Adj Cap Cost: $32193.92
Residual Value: $23202.90

36 months/12k miles/year, $355/month.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
go to the carmax before you sell your acura .
I just sold my 2005 honda odyssey ex-l res(34k miles) with carmax and they paid me $17,500.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
463 Posts
xray328, Sorry about your RDX having been in a wreck. If the seller did not disclose that, I'd be talking to an attorney if they would not undo the deal. I also suggest checking out CarMax, or maybe trading in the RDX on something else, but selling the Accord yourself should be easy to do and will probably net you a thousand or more over trade-in value.

I understand your reluctance to buy used, so how about an EX for now, and save $3,000 or more over the fancier EX-L? I realize you (and most others) are probably focused only on the monthly payments which does not seem that significant, but it adds up. Regardless, buying is usually the better way to go. I have a hard enough time dealing with dealers on a straight purchase to keep from getting screwed, so I do not know how people can help but not get screwed with all of the numbers involved in entering into a lease. Good luck. Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
255 Posts
leasing is not a bad thing if that is what you want to do. Leasing tends to be for people who can afford to buy, but choose not to because they want a new vehicle every 3 years. I do very much understand your reasoning - that you want a new car because you already have someone else's headache and don't want to go down that route again. If you really want to buy, but can't manage the payment, look at 6 year financing. When I bought my wife's ody in 2002, they offered me a 3yr lease (12K/yr) for $440 (tax included) a month with about $1000 due at signing for bank fees and MV fees. I ended up financing for 6 years at $515/month with no money down. Not a huge difference. At the time, I expected that after 6 years, I would sell it for about 10K and buy a new one. After 6 years of making payments, it feels so good to still have a decent van and to not have to make a payment. With leasing, there's no opportunity to be payment free.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
It sounds like a terrible deal.

Take a time out and pause while you consider your options. I would suggest that you first have a qualified mechanic take a look at the Acura and confirm that getting rid of it is the right thing to do.

You have only had the Acura for a month and you are considering signing up for at least a 5.5k loss on the Acura, the loss of your down payment, and an 05 Honda worth 6k to lease a van for 3 years at the end of which you will have two less vehicles than you have now. That really does not sound like a prudent choice.

It is really critical to not focus on the monthly payment but on the value of what you are buying as well as what you are paying. The monthly payment gimmick has been a way for the dealers to get people to buy vehicles beyond what they can actually afford.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
The Acura has major damage, not frame damage but it's pretty bad according to the body shop.

So, I took the car over to the place we bought it. It didn't go so well. I explained the situation to the guy in the "tower" who basically chuckled and said they just go off the carfax and weren't buying the car back. We had some heated words and it ended with me tossing the keys at him (not good). They threatened to call the police for "battery" (I know, I know - but the guy was being a real jerk.) I realized soon after that they'd probably have it towed which would result in a repo, and we be in far worse shape then we are now.

Everything cooled down a bit (the guy wouldn't give me the keys back until I apologized - jerk) and they said they could put us in something else for the same price, all of which were 4 years old and had 50,000+ miles on them. Since we felt like we were being pushed into a corner with buying something we really didn't want, we offered to buy ourselves out with $1000 cash. They said the loan had already been funded so the best they could do was to give us $19k for the Acura as if it was a trade and take $3200 cash from us ($22.2K payoff - $19k). No deal.

Then they said there was a Honda store (not theres) but that they could sell us an '11 Odyssey EX-L with 1100 miles for $38,200 + $3200 (negative equity on the Acura). Since we've been looking at these, we knew the invoice on a brand new one was $32.4k so again, no deal. We told them if they could match the lease deal we had at the Honda store (that I showed you) we'd do that. They said they couldn't lease it since they weren't a Honda store (versus buying the used '11 and selling us that one - which again was used and $6k over invoice brand new). No deal.

Then they said we could walk away from the Acura if we signed over the '05 Accord to them - worth $6k trade-in. No deal...not sure how it went from a $3200 walk away deal to us giving them our Accord worth $6k.

At that point, my wife said to just give them the $3200 and walk. But of course that has to be approved by accounting tomorrow.

What a mess. These guys are huge jerks and I feel like they've got us over a barrel. The last thing I want to do is give them $3200 or be forced into one of their "used car specials".

Is it worth contacting a lawyer?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
98 Posts
Ha--this is why I buy new!

But seriously--okay, step one. Did you actually see the CarFax report? Did they show it to you or give you a copy, or did you run it yourself? I would start by contacting CarFax. Their reputation is on the line in this situation too.

Second, your leverage here is the damage you can do to the dealers reputation. I would not recommend dealing with this situation in person--that was not a smart move and you obviously lost your cool, which is what the dealer wanted. You need to put absolutely everything in writing.

In that letter, you need to make threats--not the kind you can't keep, but the kind that sends local businesses into cold sweats. You need to threaten to contact the better business bureau, you need to threaten to contact automobile websites such as Edmunds, and most importantly, you need to threaten to contact your local newspaper. Many newspapers have "consumer" advocates who take on these kinds of cases. Dealership start getting skittish when you threaten to go public on them. But most importantly, you need to be prepared to do all that stuff.

The situation with your car is not changing day by day. It was either damaged or it wasn't when they sold it to you. Whatever has happened since then is immaterial. What I'm getting at here is that if they represented to you that the car was in a certain condition, and it wasn't, and they knew it, then they have a legal problem. That is of course difficult to prove. However, a CarFax may prove it. Otherwise, they are a reputation problem. And that's when you go scortched earth--again, by paper.

Once you get a lawyer involved, depending on the state, you could be looking at just throwing good money after bad because it will cost you. At this point, if it costs you more than $3200, then its a bad deal for you.

But my advice would be to take a step back, analyze the situation rationally, and then meticulously go after them.

And by the way--I bought my '11 EX-L RES for $33058 (32700 + 358 for accessories.) By the same approach I just described--meticulous and patient. Did it take me around 3 weeks of work? Yes. But I save a lot of money.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
xray328 said:
The Acura has major damage, not frame damage but it's pretty bad according to the body shop.

So, I took the car over to the place we bought it. It didn't go so well. I explained the situation to the guy in the "tower" who basically chuckled and said they just go off the carfax and weren't buying the car back. We had some heated words and it ended with me tossing the keys at him (not good). They threatened to call the police for "battery" (I know, I know - but the guy was being a real jerk.) I realized soon after that they'd probably have it towed which would result in a repo, and we be in far worse shape then we are now.

Everything cooled down a bit (the guy wouldn't give me the keys back until I apologized - jerk) and they said they could put us in something else for the same price, all of which were 4 years old and had 50,000+ miles on them. Since we felt like we were being pushed into a corner with buying something we really didn't want, we offered to buy ourselves out with $1000 cash. They said the loan had already been funded so the best they could do was to give us $19k for the Acura as if it was a trade and take $3200 cash from us ($22.2K payoff - $19k). No deal.

Then they said there was a Honda store (not theres) but that they could sell us an '11 Odyssey EX-L with 1100 miles for $38,200 + $3200 (negative equity on the Acura). Since we've been looking at these, we knew the invoice on a brand new one was $32.4k so again, no deal. We told them if they could match the lease deal we had at the Honda store (that I showed you) we'd do that. They said they couldn't lease it since they weren't a Honda store (versus buying the used '11 and selling us that one - which again was used and $6k over invoice brand new). No deal.

Then they said we could walk away from the Acura if we signed over the '05 Accord to them - worth $6k trade-in. No deal...not sure how it went from a $3200 walk away deal to us giving them our Accord worth $6k.

At that point, my wife said to just give them the $3200 and walk. But of course that has to be approved by accounting tomorrow.

What a mess. These guys are huge jerks and I feel like they've got us over a barrel. The last thing I want to do is give them $3200 or be forced into one of their "used car specials".

Is it worth contacting a lawyer?
OK, it sounds like the Acura needs to go.

One rule of negotiating a dispute in never, ever lose your composure. The first one that does has already lost the argument. In a situation like this you need to be very low key, with a matter of fact attitude, and without raising your voice. You need to be very clear as to what you expect and the actions you intend to take if they do not provide a satisfactory result. It should not cost you $3200 to drive the car for a month.

One question is what was disclosed at the time of purchase? Did they represent the car to be accident free? If so, you would have an awfully strong case. It may be worth a call to an attorney to find out what options you have.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
463 Posts
xray328, I am not an attorney but have some thoughts about what I would do.

I would write that dealer a letter stating what they misrepresented to you or concealed from you and state how you want it resolved. I would ask for a couple of thousand dollars in addition to being made whole, so they have room to counter with an offer to just undo the deal. I would tell them about your plans to go to the BBB, your states Attorney General's Conumer Affairs Office, etc., to complain about them and that you will turn the matter over to an attorney if it is not resolved within 10 days or some other time period. I would send the letter to the head person at the dealership, certified, return receipt requested, which shows them you can prove they received it if necessay. You can get the names of the company owners from public sources like the Secretary of State Corporations Division and send a copy of the letter to them as well. On your letter to the dealership, put at the bottom who else is getting a copy so they know they cannot just sit on this, that their bosses have be alerted to this ripoff. I would try to resolve it before you have to actually get an attorney involved. If they do not respond to your letter or undo the deal, then have a lawyer friend or relative (with a different last name from yours) send them a letter saying he will file suit within so many days. Or, if you do not know one, maybe you can pay an attorney a $100 or so just to prepare a letter to them if they do not reply o your letter.

I would also get my own copy of the carfax, and if the car was listed on their website or Autotrader, maybe it is still listed and you should printout a copy of the ad, especially any representations about the car. I would also make my own notes about any conversations with anyone at the dealership about the car, in case you have to sue them. But, I expect that once they see that you are serious, that you have your ducks in a row, and that they may get sued, that they will undo this deal. Again, I am not an attorney, but I have dealt with bad dealers before. I also recommend no further personal visits where the conversation is not documented and they have more witnesses than you do. Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
98 Posts
tom34diy said:
xray328, I am not an attorney but have some thoughts about what I would do.

I would write that dealer a letter stating what they misrepresented to you or concealed from you and state how you want it resolved. I would ask for a couple of thousand dollars in addition to being made whole, so they have room to counter with an offer to just undo the deal. I would tell them about your plans to go to the BBB, your states Attorney General's Conumer Affairs Office, etc., to complain about them and that you will turn the matter over to an attorney if it is not resolved within 10 days or some other time period. I would send the letter to the head person at the dealership, certified, return receipt requested, which shows them you can prove they received it if necessay. You can get the names of the company owners from public sources like the Secretary of State Corporations Division and send a copy of the letter to them as well. On your letter to the dealership, put at the bottom who else is getting a copy so they know they cannot just sit on this, that their bosses have be alerted to this ripoff. I would try to resolve it before you have to actually get an attorney involved. If they do not respond to your letter or undo the deal, then have a lawyer friend or relative (with a different last name from yours) send them a letter saying he will file suit within so many days. Or, if you do not know one, maybe you can pay an attorney a $100 or so just to prepare a letter to them if they do not reply o your letter.

I would also get my own copy of the carfax, and if the car was listed on their website or Autotrader, maybe it is still listed and you should printout a copy of the ad, especially any representations about the car. I would also make my own notes about any conversations with anyone at the dealership about the car, in case you have to sue them. But, I expect that once they see that you are serious, that you have your ducks in a row, and that they may get sued, that they will undo this deal. Again, I am not an attorney, but I have dealt with bad dealers before. I also recommend no further personal visits where the conversation is not documented and they have more witnesses than you do. Good luck.
Excellent advice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
854 Posts
Wait a minute, wait a minute. Carfax is notorious for its omissions.

We need some more facts here from the OP relative to the Acura transaction and an answer to the question of why the OP would even think of dealing with the selling store again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
The OP (me) is trying to get them to buy the car back, which they refused to do so instead they tried pushing us into another car.

The OP is feeling desperate at this point to unload the Acura.

That being said, I am taking everyone's advice. I'm getting an estimate from the body shop to include with my letters to the CEO and General Manager. I am going to tell them that the only acceptable solution is a 100% refund on the purchase price of the Acura.

Do I ask for TTL too?

I'm going to tell them that if they fail to undo the deal, I will be contacting the BBB, Illinois Attorney General, and an Attorney specializing in consumer fraud due to their deceptive sales tactics.

I spoke to the Honda store to cancel the Odyssey deal to get their take on what the other store did regarding the Acura. He was very nice, but said I'm probably going to have a hard time proving that they were intentionally deceptive. He said they ran a carfax and it showed up clean. He ran an autocheck while I was there and said it came up clear on there too. So they're going to say they did their due diligence in checking for problems before selling it.

I think I'm going to focus on the fact that it was advertised as accident free, and they failed to do their duty inspecting the Acura prior to putting it up for sale to back that advertisement. Even a basic inspection would of showed the radiator missing one of the mounting bolts - you can literally move the radiator back and forth.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
463 Posts
Sounds like you are on the right track. My bet is that they do not want that car back in stock, and they will want you to go away fairly satisfied. I think they will see if you will just keep the car and they will offer you some extended warranty or some cash. Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Like I said, they were willing to take the car back for $19k, but that's still at a $3200 loss. Then they started with taking a different car and I felt like they were pushing us into something we didn't want (all '07 with 50k+), then they said they'd take the car back if we signed over our '05 Accord to them. It's like they got more and more slippery as the night went on.

I'm thinking of using these guys if they don't budge...

http://www.krohnandmoss.com/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
118 Posts
xray328 said:


I think I'm going to focus on the fact that it was advertised as accident free, and they failed to do their duty inspecting the Acura prior to putting it up for sale to back that advertisement. Even a basic inspection would of showed the radiator missing one of the mounting bolts - you can literally move the radiator back and forth.
That sounds like a pretty clear cut case. They represented the car as being accident free and it was not. This should not cost you anything including TTL.

You are clearly on the right track and I hope you get the desired outcome.
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top