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I can't find another relevant forum so I'll try to solicit some feedback here - since our van is an '08.

I received an incredibly inflammatory letter from AHFC that was attached to a bill from the 407ETR toll way from Toronto.

The letter stated that it was a violation of our lease that we took the vehicle outside of the 48 contiguous United States and that we are to contact AHFC in the future if we should go to Canada again to seek their permission.

I then called their line and spoke with two reps who both gave me the standard corporate line that it's their policy.

I have leased cars from various manufacturers and one non manufacturer finance company and have NEVER had a problem with this - including having had traffic tickets while in Canada for parking and one speeding in Quebec.

Since my wife's family are in Canada and we have many friends there, we visit 2-3 times a year. And according to the call center reps I spoke with, I have to call to tell them when and for how long I will be in Canada for and they will fax me a permission letter.

Then they gave me some BS about my protection because customs officials will ask to see ownership when I cross the border to/from Canada - which has NEVER happened in all these years we've traveled across the U.S./Canada border.

I am incensed because not even the U.S. or Canadian authorities would ask me to pre-declare my intention to travel to/from Canada and for the dates and length of my stay for their permission - AHFC is crossing some very sensitive lines with this policy.

Is this common? I will check my MB Financial contract when I have a chance, but as mentioned, I've never had a problem with the border crossings when I've had other citations before.

Needless to say, given their response and the threat to 'terminate the lease at their discretion', I wish they would just take the car back so I can get my wife something else. We are going to Toronto for Christmas this year and the requirement for me to tell AHFC when and how long we're gone for so that we can have their permission letter is, IMHO, something that is akin to a violation of personal liberties.

If this is a unique policy to AHFC or if they are uniquely idiotic in enforcing this clause given the common sense approach and reasoning, this will be the last Honda we'll be leasing...
 

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I have seen this stipulation in both Lexus and Audi contracts in the past. Whether they enforce that clause is another issue and in most cases they likely would never know. You should practice flying under the radar.... :D

Are they crossing lines and violating personal liberties? Nope. It's their property and you agreed to it. Next time...buy the car or revise/negotiate the lease before signing.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
skinny2 said:
I have seen this stipulation in both Lexus and Audi contracts in the past. Whether they enforce that clause is another issue and in most cases they likely would never know. You should practice flying under the radar.... :D

Are they crossing lines and violating personal liberties? Nope. It's their property and you agreed to it. Next time...buy the car or revise/negotiate the lease before signing.
I've just checked my Mercedes-Benz lease contract and here's the language they use regarding use out of the United States (under "Prohibited Use of Vehicle): You also agree not to take the vehicle outside of the United States; however, you may take the vehicle to Canada or Mexico for 30 days or less.

Wouldn't you agree that this is a more reasonable set of contract limitations regarding travel to Canada or Mexico?

I think the suggestion to buy the car misses the point: AHFC has obviously set out a limitation that defies reasonable use for a leased vehicle for personal or business use.

One thing's for sure, I'll check out this use clause in future lease contracts before I sign...
 

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I just don't lease. No muss no fuss. I own all my cars outright and that works for me. :)
 

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dvpatel said:
I just don't lease. No muss no fuss. I own all my cars outright and that works for me. :)
Yes, and how often do you travel by Ody from NC to CAN?

I thought this thread was about lease restrictions on travel to Canada, not a survey on members' ownership/leasing preferences . . . :D :D :D :D: (okay, so this post was :stupid: , to borrow dv's favorite smiley)
 

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homer's van said:
Yes, and how often do you travel by Ody from NC to CAN?

I thought this thread was about lease restrictions on travel to Canada, not a survey on members' ownership/leasing preferences . . . :D :D :D :D: (okay, so this post was :stupid: , to borrow dv's favorite smiley)
Just remember. I do have the power to delete posts and you don't. :stupid:

BTW. The outright buying is a solution to the leasing problem at hand so it was very relevant. As to fixing the current problem. Well, the lease is signed and cannot be changed so nothing can be done about OP's current lease.
 

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Arkay said:
Wouldn't you agree that this is a more reasonable set of contract limitations regarding travel to Canada or Mexico?

I think the suggestion to buy the car misses the point: AHFC has obviously set out a limitation that defies reasonable use for a leased vehicle for personal or business use.
[/B]
More reasonable for you. More risk for the lessor. Vehicles leaving the country can become a huge problem for a leasor to recover. They could say you have no right to use outside the U.S. and I'm not sure I would argue with their right to do so. We bounce all over the world with ease but you don't realize the legal issues that can arise.

I always recommend reading a contract before signing....
 

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dvpatel said:
Just remember. I do have the power to delete posts and you don't. :stupid:
Geez. This is just a car forum, man, it ain't life. Seriously, dv, lighten up, relax, just let the flow here roll, and try to laugh a little bit that is presuming the robo-spamming ever slows down enough to permit it. We all know who keeps the boards clean here, no thanks to the absentee owner.


[sent from Michigan - NORTH of Canada (at least in part)]
 

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dvpatel said:
Just remember. I do have the power to delete posts and you don't. :stupid:
What is this, the playground? Somebody hurt your e-feelings so you are going to take your ball and go home? :stupid:
 

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psu ody fan said:
What is this, the playground? Somebody hurt your e-feelings so you are going to take your ball and go home? :stupid:
Yep. You mean I can't do that? I've always been taking my ball and going home. :confused:
 

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dvpatel said:
You mean I can't do that?
Of course you can do that....nobody else around here to stop you. :D
 

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dvpatel said:
Yep. You mean I can't do that? I've always been taking my ball and going home. :confused:
Please use the search feature. Ball and Home have been covered here at least a gazzilion times. (insert obligatory :stupid: here)
 

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skinny2 said:
Please use the search feature. Ball and Home have been covered here at least a gazzilion times. (insert obligatory :stupid: here)
psu ody fan said:
Of course you can do that....nobody else around here to stop you. :D
Now I am really confused. :D :stupid: :D
 

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Back to the original post......

Arkay, did you find any clause about that in your contract?

Also, what was the bill that AHFC received and sent to you? Did you blow off paying a toll?
 

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"I am incensed because not even the U.S. or Canadian authorities would ask me to pre-declare my intention to travel to/from Canada and for the dates and length of my stay for their permission - AHFC is crossing some very sensitive lines with this policy."

They're not asking you to declare your intention to travel anywhere. They are asking you to declare your intention to take their property to another country.

If I were letting someone use my car I'd certainly want to know where they are taking it.
 

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rwbest said:
They're not asking you to declare your intention to travel anywhere. They are asking you to declare your intention to take their property to another country.

If I were letting someone use my car I'd certainly want to know where they are taking it.
Excellent point. Just like rental car companies sometimes restrict where you can take their vehicles.
 

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The 407 is a privately constructed toll road that only bills by tracing license tags using automated photo technology, there are no toll booths. Regulars pay in advance with a pass and tolls get deducted from balance, but tourists get the joy of a bill later with added fees for being an infrequent user. One may establish an infrequent user account for payment purposes, but being a tourist means that you might just go that direction impulsively and you don't pre-pay in that circumstance. The alternate route takes longer, can be jammed up, so you decide just to fork over the money later for fast travel now. Car's registration address shows for lessor, but with lessee's name, so bill goes to AHFC - no choice, no way to change that with the 407. The OP did nothing wrong on this toll road.

Frankly, also living in a border state, no lessee in his right mind here would assume a restriction on CAN travel, the longest peaceable land border in the world, and the country has a comparable culture and respect for property laws. (Mexico poses different risks, but I can't speak to that reality living in MI.) No one in Detroit would ever suspect a restriction on crossing the river to CAN in a lease contract (and maybe even a rental, but I never considered those contracts as a resident here other than to note how disclaimers are generally set out in advance and reinforced orally at the counter, whereas the NY or MI Honda dealer base probably knows but never as clearly discloses AFHC's CAN restrictions for sufficient, but perhaps subversive, reasons).

On point is that this CAN restriction is borderline outrageous and truly grounds never to lease from AHFC again compared to competition or alternate, independent lessors if AHFC first requires a report of all CAN travels in advance -- consider, you break your contract with a spontaneous 2 hour drive to see a Shakespeare play and overnight in Stratford, Ontario with your spouse one weekend because it never crosses your mind to call the lessor? Or, the lessor is closed for business when you woke up early one Saturday morning and your spouse just felt like heading there? You gonna stay home with that nice van you lease for $500 per month, paid timely, instead? Ridiculous.
 

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There. Cleaned up the last post to rid it of off topic :argue: .
 
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