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Discussion Starter #21
EGR valve was Duralast. I was thinking that it could be a vacuum leak however this vehicle only uses a MAP sensor and not a MAF sensor so a vacuum leak should be accounted for since it is calculating fuel based on intake vacuum versus air flow. Is that correct line of thinking or no? As far as identifying a leak I wasn't able to do that which is why I went ahead and just replaced the EGR valve. MAP pressure reading is about 4PSI when the issue is occurring which looks like a good reading. Any suggestion on verifying EGR valve function?
 

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2005 EXL donated 243K ,2019sienna XLE AWD
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The last time I saw a situation like this it was because the timing was off. You replaced the timing belt. Have you verified the timing marks again?
@ecwilson23082, was the TB tensioner replaced at the TB replacement?
 

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Discussion Starter #26
@ecwilson23082, was the TB tensioner replaced at the TB replacement?
Yes, I replaced the belt, tensioner, water pump, and idler.

Check post #10on that thread.
I did verify timing and it is correct like the video shows, mark on crank, rear cam, and front cam with #1 at top. If I remember correctly if your 180 out #5 is at top on the front and the rear cam mark won't be lined up. Then one more revolution on the crank and all is lined up.


Any teeth missing on the sprockets?
When I did the replacement everything looked very good, belt showed very little wear. In fact I suspect it may have been done previously, I just didn't have a record of it which is why I did it.


Thanks for the suggestions.
Eric
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Well I did a compression test and got 170-180PSI on all cylinders. They are all pretty consistent just on the high side. Also checked fuel pressure which looked good almost 60PSI while running.

Connected my vacuum gauge and I think it looks good 20" when its running smoother, drops to 16" when its misfiring allot but that's also when b2 is faulted so engine rpm's are higher. Map sensor reads 4-5 PSI which I think is inline with my gauge readings.

Next thing I am thinking is dirty fuel injectors? I may swap 5 and 6 since 6 almost never misses and 5 is the biggest offender.
 

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If you had a dirty injector you would have a lean condition under load. Have you checked conditions of the cats? Maybe one is clogged. Could you post your fuel trims, short and long at idle and at a higher rpm?
 

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Discussion Starter #29
If you had a dirty injector you would have a lean condition under load. Have you checked conditions of the cats? Maybe one is clogged. Could you post your fuel trims, short and long at idle and at a higher rpm?
Fuel trim at idle short term 30-40% at 3000rpm it dropped a bit to 20-30%. Long term is 0 I assume because it hasn't ran long enough or because it keeps going into open loop fault. Also when the problem initially started I also had a FB2 lean code. I think it only hasn't resurfaced because it takes a few drive cycles before it is set. Have not checked into cats yet.
 

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These are the trim on Bank 2? What do the Bank 1 trims look like?

A bad injector could be your issue. Can you pull an injector connector while its running? (I haven't wrenched much on these motors) This might help you isolate the bad injector. If not you could run an injector flow check with something like this:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0126MEK3C/ref=as_li_qf_sp_asin_il_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=nestormendoza-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B0126MEK3C&linkId=d70660af37e1149f690e36b8914aaf57

I would also check exhaust pressure by unscrewing the air/fuel sensor and putting in a pressure gauge to diagnose a clogged cat if the injectors test out fine.

Lastly, I would not rule out a bad air fuel sensor. Not sure if its easy to swap them to diagnose.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
I forgot to include bank 1, it averages 10% spikes up to 15% but was typically about 10. Unfortunately the injectors are not accessible without removing the intake manifold.
I did replace the A/F sensor on bank 2 with a new one and got the same readings (4mA compared to bank 1 about 1mA) so I put the old one back on.
The bank 2 A/F sensor is very easy access so I will try a pressure gauge first. I would guess I should expect just a few PSI? How high would be considered bad?
 

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Discussion Starter #33
So since my last post my wife had our twin babies so needless to say I didn't get much done.
I decided to go ahead and replace all fuel injectors, do a valve adjustment, and of course replace all associated gaskets. I know the valve adjustment isn't going to be the solution to the problem but since I am most of the way there doing the injectors and it's at 170K I figured it couldn't hurt. I had a bit of time today so I went I got everything disassembled to start the valve adjustment and noticed quite a difference in how dirty bank 2 is compared to bank 1. Below are some pictures:
All cylinders valve covers resized.jpg
Both Banks

Cylinder 1,2,3 valve cover resized.jpg
Bank 1

Cylinder 4,5,6 valve cover resized.jpg
Bank 2

Any thoughts on why such a difference?
 

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So since my last post my wife had our twin babies so needless to say I didn't get much done.
I decided to go ahead and replace all fuel injectors, do a valve adjustment, and of course replace all associated gaskets. I know the valve adjustment isn't going to be the solution to the problem but since I am most of the way there doing the injectors and it's at 170K I figured it couldn't hurt. I had a bit of time today so I went I got everything disassembled to start the valve adjustment and noticed quite a difference in how dirty bank 2 is compared to bank 1. Below are some pictures:

Any thoughts on why such a difference?
You are going overboard replacing all injectors, I would concentrate on the one cylinder that had most misfire pids.
As far as pictures of your engine, I have seen very similar results from the only J35 I opened up to do valve adjustment on.
Front bank was covered in varnish and rear bank was much cleaner.
If I ever get time to work on my own Ody, I will post pics of my engine with Synthetic Mobil1 oil used for every oil change.
Wonder if mine looks the same.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Just wanted to update this thread. I have put about 500 miles on it and the van runs great now, FT's are down where they should be and 0 misfires. Valves didn't need much adjusting. Only 3 exhaust valves were out of spec and not by much. All of the intake valves were out (loose) by a few thousandths. So root cause was fuel injectors. Thanks for the input everyone.
Eric
 

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Not yet but I will do that.


I do not have an advanced scanner but I may have to buy one, I was looking at the Bosch 1150 since it shows/records live data and isn't too expensive ( on sale for $150). I'll search your post and read through.


Yes I turned crankshaft pulley over to line up TDC mark and both camshafts were lined up with the mark on the timing covers (with #1 at TDC). Also the issue seems to have come and gone although it is worse now than ever but if it was timing it would have been a consistent issue I would think?

Thanks for the suggestions, I haven't got anything done since my last post but hopefully can get back to it tonight.
I'm not sure if this will help (my guess is that it won't) but I'll toss it out anyway...

We've been chasing a misfire problem on my daughter's '05 Taurus (170K) for a few years. The code is specifically related to "cold" starts, i.e. too many random misfires in the first 1000 revolutions. It mainly occurred when the weather was cold, so we always had the vehicle inspected during the summer when the CEL is off. :) During the fall and winter, she drove it with the CEL on constantly. Same codes, P0300/P0316 every year.

I've done plugs, wires, runner manifold gasket and a few other things that might cause the misfires. Nothing helped. Then I stumbled across a TSB that calls for flashing the PCM to a more recent software version. My guess is that they simply raised the number of allowable misfires before it throws the code. Boom! Problem solved.

We just had that done on Monday. The CEL light went off, all the codes were cleared and the dealer drove it until the monitors reset. It passed inspection, so we're good for another year. We probably won't really know if the PCM flash actually solved the problem until it gets cold again. The plan is to (hopefully) replace the beast before that happens anyway.

Like I said, I doubt this will help in your situation, unless there is a Honda TSB that addresses misfires like there is for the Taurus. Good luck anyway!
 

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I am having a similar problem in my '05 Ody. It started with the check engine light being on. A few weeks later we had the local auto place read the codes which read all cylinders misfiring as separate codes as well as random misfire and the front bank (bank 2) fuel system too rich. During this time the engine may have idled slightly rougher, but barely noticeable. I changed the plugs in case there was something there, but they looked great. Then we went on a nearly 2,000 mile trip. No issues on the way down. Then the next morning I re-parked the car with no noticeable problem. Then, when we went to go to our destination a few hours later it started fine, idled rough, would only rev to maybe 3,500 rpms in neutral and was totally gutless trying to drive it. I drove it anyhow since we were only going a few miles, but stayed off the freeway. It drove gutless the whole way there. I parked it and immediately restarted it and it felt and revved fine. It then drove fine all the way home. The mileage on the trip was 22.36, 24.31, 21.88, and 19.49 mpg. A couple of days later my wife reported it being gutless again. Reading this post is my first foray into diagnosing this. Sounds like very similar indications, but I am not convinced the fuel injectors will do the trick. I have not done any work on the engine so no reason to expect timing issues. The intermittency leads me away from a vacuum leak or PCV. Did you also change the O2 sensor or reset something electrically while doing your work? Anyone else with ideas?
Also, when it is running poorly the check engine light is flashing rather than solid on. When it starts and runs normally it flashes for a few seconds, but then goes solid. And the green ECO light no longer comes on whether it is running right or not.
 
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