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Discussion Starter #1
I had planned on using Mobil 1 synthetic in my new 2002 EX, but after I read here that Honda recommends 5w-20, I'm in a quandry. I called the customer service# for Mobil 1, and they currently have no plans to introduce 5w-20. I'm curious if there is a huge difference. If I use the 5w-30, will there be a noticeable/detrimental effect on my engine? Any advice/ideas?

I have a hard time believing that 50w-30 Mobil 1 isn't as beneficial as dino 5w-20.
 

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There is PLENTY discussion of this very topic in other threads. I'll save you the time: 5W-20 is NOT required. Check your engine filler cap, dealer and any other literature. 5W-30 is the recommended correct weight and is best suited for cold/warm climates. 5W-30 will NOT harm your engine or void any warranty.

Oil is a slippery subject... for every one question, you get ten opinions. Other tips to consider:
1). Your FIRST oil change should not occur before the regular schedule (7,500 miles for non-severe mileage... although 5,000 seems more reasonable). You want to leave the factory oil in the engine during its "break in" period.
2). Change the filter (only) at about 500 miles. Fill new filter with high quality 5W-30 dino oil.
3). Do not use synthetic for the first 10,000 miles. This one is pretty open to debate, however, most feel that dino better allows the engine to "wear in."

Mobile 1 is an excellent choice for synthetic.
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cmt4:
There is PLENTY discussion of this very topic in other threads. I'll save you the time: 5W-20 is NOT required. Check your engine filler cap, dealer and any other literature. 5W-30 is the recommended correct weight and is best suited for cold/warm climates. 5W-30 will NOT harm your engine or void any warranty.

Oil is a slippery subject... for every one question, you get ten opinions. Other tips to consider:
1). Your FIRST oil change should not occur before the regular schedule (7,500 miles for non-severe mileage... although 5,000 seems more reasonable). You want to leave the factory oil in the engine during its "break in" period.
2). Change the filter (only) at about 500 miles. Fill new filter with high quality 5W-30 dino oil.
3). Do not use synthetic for the first 10,000 miles. This one is pretty open to debate, however, most feel that dino better allows the engine to "wear in."

Mobile 1 is an excellent choice for synthetic.
</font>

So how exactly does one change just the filter with the oil still in the motor? I might be showing my ignorance, but it seems like one would end up with all the oil out anyway-it would come through the filter connection instead of the drain hole. Am I missing something obvious, like the oil pump preventing this?
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">There is PLENTY discussion of this very topic in other threads. I'll save you the time: 5W-20 is NOT required. Check your engine filler cap, dealer and any other literature. 5W-30 is the recommended correct weight and is best suited for cold/warm climates. 5W-30 will NOT harm your engine or void any warranty.</font>
On the 2002 models, 5W20 IS required. Period, end of sentence. For ALL conditions.

Why do you say that it isn't?
 

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This could be interesting. In my 01 owners manual, it said 5-20 in one place and 5-30 in another place. The odyssey service manual said 5-30. The filler cap said 5-30. The dealer service dept. said 5-30. Honda said it's owners manual was in error and later had a paste-in revision that said 5-30.

Now they are saying 5-20 again for the 02, or this just another FUBAR in the manual?

I'm looking for a car in addition to the Ody. I believe I will give other makes more consideration this time around.

Regards
Al
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Now they are saying 5-20 again for the 02, or this just another FUBAR in the manual?</font>
This is NOT another fubar. The 2002 manual is very, very explicit and very, very consistent on this issue. 5W20 is the oil to use for the 2002 models, period.

Remember, this is technically a new engine for 2002.

Also, the oil filler cap is quite explicit with regard to 5W20 oil.

If you own a 2002 and want to ignore the very explicit owner's manual and engine oil filler cap, be my guest. But please, don't come here complaining about any ill effects of doing so.
 

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adam is correct. 5W-20 for the 2002 models. 5W-30 was for earlier models.

The owners manual states : "If 5W-20 is not available, a 5W-30 oil may be used. However, it should be replaced with 5W-20 at the next oil change."
 

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Depending upon the climate you live in, a 20 rating may not protect as well as a 30 rating (during summer). Putting 5W-30 in any engine will NOT harm or be detrimental in any way... the base oil weight is still the same and only at higher temps will the polymers "expand." The fact that few manufactures make the configuration is proof enough. Besides, with global warming I want to make sure the hotter temperatures don't hurt my Ody.


By the way, this is NOT a new engine... putting a different intake and exhaust on a small block does not make the engine "new." The use of 5W-20 is for fleet average mileage data and not for anything else. Can you say, "marketing"? (Remember, the Ody lost out in the best mpg category for 2001) I don't think anyone could make an argument that creating more horsepower for an engine equates to using a thinner oil (we're not racing Ody's... are we?).

I'm not suggesting to ignore the manufacturer, if you want to use 5W-20... use it! But 5W-30 will NOT void your warranty.

odyfox -- The Ody's filter sits in a vertical position below the engine block. When the engine is not operating, oil drains to the pan. You simply remove the old filter (which will have oil in it due to the anti-drain valve and vertical placement). There will not be any additional oil draining from the engine block.
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I'm not suggesting to ignore the manufacturer, if you want to use 5W-20... use it! But 5W-30 will NOT void your warranty.</font>
That's a pretty bold statement. Do you store replacement engines to hand out to people to back that up?

I wouldn't second-guess Honda's warranty in any way. Only Honda can say what will and will not void the warranty. My guess is, extended use of 5W30 oil could indeed be cause for Honda to reject a warranty claim that was oil-related.
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cmt4:
odyfox -- The Ody's filter sits in a vertical position below the engine block. When the engine is not operating, oil drains to the pan. You simply remove the old filter (which will have oil in it due to the anti-drain valve and vertical placement). There will not be any additional oil draining from the engine block.</font>
Thanks-I figured it was something simple that I was overlooking.
 

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Ford is also recommending 5W-20 wt and is making a simisynthetic sold at Walmart. I also am a Mobil 1 user but I am not about to go against Honda's recommdation. I find the Amsoil product 5W-20 to be to unknown and to expensive. If nothing else, I may use the Formoco 5W-20. However, I don't need to make that choice for quite a while as my '02 won't be in for 2 weeks. Any one know of other choices?
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by adam1991:
That's a pretty bold statement. Do you store replacement engines to hand out to people to back that up?

I wouldn't second-guess Honda's warranty in any way. Only Honda can say what will and will not void the warranty. My guess is, extended use of 5W30 oil could indeed be cause for Honda to reject a warranty claim that was oil-related.
</font>
Not true! Honda would have to prove that the 5-30 caused the failure. I believe the 5-20 is a recommendation-not a requirement. The only way they could flat out reject a warranty claim due to 5-30 use was if it was stated in the warranty that it was prohibited. Magnuson-Moss warranty act. Notice Honda says SHOULD be changed-not MUST be changed or the warrant will be voided. Most likely, Honda used a 5-20 oil to reduce pumping losses and get the mileage figure up on the Oddy. I believe that requires them to recommend the same weight oil for use when they sell the vehicles. I can't recall where I read this, but it was a legit site. The government does not allow testing with one set of standards and sales with another.
I've seen this hyperbole in action for over 50 years of driving. CMT4 is right.
I personnaly would not use 5-20 when pulling a trailer or hauling heavy loads in hot weather or mountains. As a matter of fact, I won't use it at all.
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Not true! Honda would have to prove that the 5-30 caused the failure. I believe the 5-20 is a recommendation-not a requirement.</font>
It's a requirement, according to the owner's manual.


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">The only way they could flat out reject a warranty claim due to 5-30 use was if it was stated in the warranty that it was prohibited.</font>
Bingo. Honda 2002 Warranty Information book, page 12, middle column:

"The warranties in this booklet do not cover:

* The failure of any part of accessory due to:

(snip)

-- A low fluid level or the use of a fluid other than specified by Honda.

-- The installation of any part that is not equal to the original in quality of materials or workmanship.

* Any installed part or accessory that fails because it was not designed to fit that year and model of Honda."

It's pretty damned black and white.

So, do you have Ody engines sitting around, new in the box, to hand to people who listen to you when you make YOUR engineering recommendations?

I guess you know more than the Honda engineers. That's nice. But since YOU aren't providing warranty coverage on other people's vehicles, you might want to cover both sides of the fence. When you tell them to use whatever damn oil you think is appropriate regardless of Honda's specifications, you incur the obligation on yourself to point out the terms of the Honda warranty.

At least, a responsible person would do so.

[This message has been edited by adam1991 (edited 09-30-2001).]
 

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Adam1991, please "be nice". Thanks. This is a nice board. Let's keep it that way.
 

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I'm plenty nice.

How about let's keep the armchair engineers from spreading serious disinformation, disinformation that if someone took seriously could cause damage not covered by warranty?

I call 'em as I see 'em. The opinion shared by cmt4 and albaby is pretty severe, and it deserves some severe addressing.

For example, albaby's assertion that it's "Not true!" that Honda could deny an oil-related warranty claim on the basis of not using 5w20 oil is plainly false, as shown by the black and white evidence of Honda's own owner's manual specifications and warranty specifications.

I'd hate for someone to listen to that and use some spec of oil other than what Honda specs, and end up with problems not covered by warranty. Unless albaby is covering those engines for those people, he needs to back off or else come up with some evidence to the contrary.

If we let assertions like albaby's stand, then the information source we call odyclub.com is completely and 100% worthless. It becomes like the rest of the net--full of junk information from uninformed people, said junk information being spread to people who think, "I read it on the net, so it must be true".

I'd like to think this board is above that and is a better source of information.

[This message has been edited by adam1991 (edited 09-30-2001).]
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by johnkalajian:
...This is a nice board. Let's keep it that way.</font>
Thanks for reminding us of that. There's always a nice way to say things
and there's always a not-so-nice way to say things
.

Part of the strength and value of this board is that close to 99% of Odyclub posters manage to communicate with grace, manners, and intelligence. They do this regardless of how they perceive those with whom they disagree.

Over the years, I've posted some really stupid ideas
online. I've learned more from posters who thoughtfully point out a better way than from those who attack or ridicule.

I've never regretted posting something pleasant but have more than once regretted posting something with hostility.

Regards,

------------------
Maugham

"I plan to live forever. So far, so good"
'02 RP EX-L due 10/17
'85 Prelude that we'll keep!
'01 Ninja folding aluminum scooter
'00 New Balance Model 658 Shoes w/ '01 White Laces

[This message has been edited by Maugham (edited 09-30-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Since I started this thread, I'm gonna jump back in. I think that ALBABY is correct is his reasons for Honda's recommendation. I've tried to read a lot about oils, and in particular, synthetics. It looks like there is minimal difference between the 5W-20 and 5W-30, chemically speaking. I really wonder if the engine of Joe Customer would show a difference? I'm sure at racing temperatures, there are some changes in the molecular structure, but probably not during my trip to Wal-Mart.
If I'm doing my own oil changes, Honda will have a hard time being able to tell what fluids I have used. I'd like to see some more discussion of this, so let's beat it around a little more. Thanks
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Since I started this thread, I'm gonna jump back in. I think that ALBABY is correct is his reasons for Honda's recommendation.</font>
I don't think anybody disputes his reasoning for the specification. Automakers have been doing this kind of thing for years.

It's the rest of it that's dangerous to have floating around. Unless he's in a position with Honda to assert exactly what Honda's warranty position would be, he shouldn't be telling people to use something different than what the manual specifies and that Honda won't reject oil-related warranty claims if they do go against the specification.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">If I'm doing my own oil changes, Honda will have a hard time being able to tell what fluids I have used.</font>
Oh, I dunno. If it means the difference between paying for a replacement engine and not, I think Honda wouldn't be against a little oil analysis.

I'm not disputing it from a technical standpoint. I'm disputing the claims that you can do whatever you want and Honda "can't" reject a warranty claim. They can, and the owner's manual and warranty manual--which are both extremely clear--are the clear indication of such.
 

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I don't have to worry about this since I have an '01 Ody, but if I did, the course I would follow would depend on where I live and drive. Here in the Midwest I would use the 5W-20, since the winters are colder and since Honda dealerships here "require it".

If I lived in the south I would use 5W-30.
I stopped at a Honda dealership in Florida this summer to check out the service dept., as we are thinking of relocating to that area. I talked with the service manager about various things including oil changes. He told me that he has several cases of 5W-20 Honda oil in the parts room un-opened because they use 5W-30 due to the warmer driving conditions. At that time the Odys didn't require 5W-20 but some other Hondas did. Another thing that impressed me was that oil changes at that dealership are $15.95 all the time, whereas my dealer charges $23.95.

Also, if you have a warranty claim and do your own oil changes be prepared to show receipts for what you bought to use in your van. They don't always ask for you to provide proof, but they may. That is why, while under warranty, I choose to have the dealer do every other oil change. If I do move to where the dealer will do it for $15.95 they can do every oil change. As has been mentioned in other discussions, having a good relationship with the service dept will help to get them to go to bat for you when needed. Just my $.02

------------------
Lanny
2K1 EX MB
 
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