[weino]

We recently became the proud owners of a 2002, granite green EX-L and would like your take on our deal. We paid a grand total of $37,817.80 for: the navigation system and i-VES; a sub-woofer; mud flaps; the cargo mat; wheel locks; cross bars; TX sales tax of 6.25%; an $1195 extended warranty (am awaiting the KY paperwork for the $895 Honda one thanks to you good people); and we got our money at 5.29%. Other than the extended warranty, can not find any "holes" in our buy. Whaddaya'll think? Thanks in advance,
weino

 

[Tim L]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by weino:
We recently became the proud owners of a 2002, granite green EX-L and would like your take on our deal. We paid a grand total of $37,817.80 for: the navigation system and i-VES; a sub-woofer; mud flaps; the cargo mat; wheel locks; cross bars; TX sales tax of 6.25%; an $1195 extended warranty (am awaiting the KY paperwork for the $895 Honda one thanks to you good people); and we got our money at 5.29%. Other than the extended warranty, can not find any "holes" in our buy. Whaddaya'll think? Thanks in advance,
weino </font>

Ok, Guys, if the plan cost the dealer $825 and You paid $1195 SO WHAT!! You all do realize that the car business is for profit. we are not a charitable organization. You want the hottest car on the market and you want it free?? Come on, pay MSRP, buy the warranty at a reasonable price(i agree $1800 is overkill) and enjoy your new minivan.

 

[Homer]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tim L:

Ok, Guys, if the plan cost the dealer $825 and You paid $1195 SO WHAT!! You all do realize that the car business is for profit. we are not a charitable organization...</font>

Yes....but, it certainly appears as if a decent profit was made on the sale of the vehicle and accessories. Did the dealer really need that 30%+ margin on the extended warranty as well?

 

[turnipgreen]

Seems like a couple of dealers/salespeople/salesmanagers have joined us. If they do I figure they deserve some stories on why they get the rap they do.

In my case we wanted an Odyssey, and had a trade in. Out of about 8 dealers within our area, 7 wanted to make the normal killing (and yes I categorize 3 or 4K on the van based on MSRP to be a killing), but also make another killing (2 to 2.5 K) on my trade in and thought I should be appreciative. The lone 8th dealer gave us about what we expected on our trade in, and still told us they would make "some" money on the trade in.

So based on stuff like this, I think dealers are taking advantage of the situation. Given you as a salesguy didn't create the Odyssey, and in my case I didn't need a salesguy to sell me one (we did it finally over the phone), I see no need to give you more than one killing on this thing.

 

[Steve Pert]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tim L:

Ok, Guys, if the plan cost the dealer $825 and You paid $1195 SO WHAT!! You all do realize that the car business is for profit. we are not a charitable organization. You want the hottest car on the market and you want it free?? Come on, pay MSRP, buy the warranty at a reasonable price(i agree $1800 is overkill) and enjoy your new minivan.</font>

Who said anything about wanting a car for free? Sounds like defensive salesperson-speak.

Tim L, as you appear to be a Honda dealer and say we should "pay MSRP," does that mean your dealership sells Odysseys at MSRP? If so, please post the name and location of your dealership so people will know where in California to go for an Odyssey at MSRP.

Also, what criteria is used to decide "reasonable price" on the warranty? Anything over (what is it?) $825 is pure profit for you, with no expense. Is a "reasonable price" represented by 5% profit? 10% profit? Even 15% pure profit would yield a selling price of $950 for the warranty.

[This message has been edited by Steve Pert (edited 01-07-2002).]

 

[Jerry O1]

My feeling is that what the dealer is paying for the vehicle is none of the buyer's business. The bottom line is, do you want the vehicle bad enough to pay the asking price, or not?

I do not know what business any of you are in, but, I'll bet you wouldn't want every customer or client coming through your door and telling you what you paid for your merchandise. I, for one, would find that sort of an attitude hard to accept.

If the price is too high, go somewhere else! After all, the dealer owns that vehicle and it is his to sell at whatever the traffic will bear. Do those of you who have homes to sell which have appreciated sell them for a "low" profit, just not to appear greedy? I think not. You hold out for the highest price the market will bear.......

Besides, it's only the other guy who is greedy, Hee! Hee!

Jerry O.

------------------
2001 Odyssey GG LX

 

[Steve Pert]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jerry O:
My feeling is that what the dealer is paying for the vehicle is none of the buyer's business.

I do not know what business any of you are in, but, I'll bet you wouldn't want every customer or client coming through your door and telling you what you paid for your merchandise. I, for one, would find that sort of an attitude hard to accept.
</font>

"Buyer's business" or not, the dealer's cost is freely available to anyone who wants to know. As long as there are car dealers out there whose practices are to "screw the customer" then people will use any means possible to get the lowest price.

When a commodity is sold on a negotiating basis, any technique to get the best deal becomes fair. Outside of popular high-demand or low-supply vehicles (like the Odyssey), negotiating is nearly always the standard way of setting the price.

In an open market the dealership should not be the only party privy to information. Many business deals are based on a supplier's profit margin or markup. Thus, the consumer has the ability to level the playing field by knowing the dealer's cost, and will then know if a deal is good or not.

If dealers set their lowest price and competed with other dealers on published (no-haggle) prices, then buyers wouldn't have to guess who to buy from or who would make the best deal. But dealers have chosen to do business the opposite way, by starting with the highest price and attempting to minimize how much they go down. Some buyers get better deals than others, and knowing that they don't want to be the sucker who paid more then another buyer.

Most consumers don't really care if a dealer finds that sort of attitude hard to accept or not. The fact is, the dealer's invoice prices are well-known, and there's no putting that genie back in the bottle.

All that said, it doesn't do Odyssey buyers much good, as supply/demand forces mean no negotiation on price. Oh well, let the Alabama plant's production roll.

 

[Jerry O1]

I stick by my words! When you label someone "greedy" or say they are out to "screw the consumer", I feel you are wrong. In the case of the Odyssey, the dealers have been given a windfall and taken advantage of it. Most business is about "what the traffic will bear" and that will never change, in our system.

As for the availability of cost information, whether it out there or not is not the problem. The problem is that it causes folks to get down on the owners of the vehicles, if they cannot get the deal they perceive to be "fair". How can a person outside a business know what that owner needs to get for his product? Does the buyer know all the expenses incurred in doing business? I think not!

How would you like it, when selling a home, if the prospective buyer asked you what you paid for the house and then accused you of trying to "screw" him, by charging a greatly appreciated, current market price?

Jerry O.

------------------
2001 Odyssey GG LX

 

[rickse]

Tim,

It's always about supply vs. demand. You've got the best van, the supply is controlled, and the dealers are making sure that no one breaks rank to sell under MSRP. So what? It's $500 over the life of the car.

However, screw the customer is becoming the Honda mantra and you'd better be careful. What you are doing with this mentality is assuring zero loyalty the next time around. I really wanted to buy my car from the same dealer that I got my Accord from. I serviced the car there for 12 years. They offered me $200 for a car worth $3,000 - $3,500, and then played bait-and-switch on the EX delivery date.

The dealership that I got my 02 EX commited to sell me all of the accessories at "dealer cost", so I DID care what cost was. When they priced the accessories (mud flaps, cassette, wheel locks, cargo liner), they were charging me 40% over Handa. They even tried to charge me to install the liner! They then tried to hit my wife up for $1.4k for the warrenty ($875 from Tracy).

I work with salespeople all the time, so I'm used to counting my fingers after every handshake, but this was ridiculous. I got this song and dance about the price that parts charges the sales division. Give me a break. You can't really wonder why customers throw your cost back in your face.

 

[sa9651]

Paid MSRP for our '02, and thought we were ripped off by about $2,000 on trade-in until about a month after when a guy (customer) called me from the dealer asking me about the condition of the trade-in. After answering all his questions, I asked him how much they were asking for it. He said $900 over my trade-in price. Knowing what dealer had to fix to get car saleable (tires, alignment, speedo repair), I no longer feel ripped off!

 

[dkinne]

The party will soon be over for Honda Dealers. With increased production from the new plant in Alabama, the "full price" waiting list scenario will soon vanish.
Supply and demand will continue to be the number 1 rule of our economics.
American business's can charge what ever the market will bare. More power to them. Isn't that what makes our country great. And, how are you supposed to get rich if you don't try.
I am not a dealer. I just forked over full MSRP for a 02 ODY. I did not get what I wanted for my 96 Town&Crappy tradein. But I wanted the new ODY now, and was willing to bend over like everybody else.
God Bless America. Go Honda! - living the American dream.

 

[Steve Pert]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Jerry O:
How would you like it, when selling a home, if the prospective buyer asked you what you paid for the house and then accused you of trying to "screw" him, by charging a greatly appreciated, current market price?
</font>

Actually, the prices that were paid for homes are also available on the Internet for many areas of the country. The price paid for a home is public information (tax collector's office).

See http://list.realestate.yahoo.com/re/homevalues/

[This message has been edited by Steve Pert (edited 01-09-2002).]

 

[cmt4]

Supply does NOT equal Demand. If that were the case, then they would be making more Ody's (and PLEASE don't tell me about the Bama plant... what is the production there??). Honda has purposely limited production to keep the MSRP+ senerio going. Perfectly within a business' "right." But oh so wrong and customer loyalty/satisfaction is drastically reduced... did these guys even ATTEMPT to understand Business 101?! What year of production is the Ody in and they STILL can't meet demand.....

Yes, I agree that my customers have no right to know what my product/service actually cost... but I have a SOCIAL responsibility to the customer. BTW, the "invoice" price everybody is referencing: don't kid yourself, that is rarely what the dealer ACTUALLY paid for the vehicle. Should a customer really suffer (ie get taken advantage of) because they don't know the first thing about automobiles? We're dealing with money AND people here... why have businesses forgotten that? And they all wonder why there is no more brand loyalty like we used to have years ago. A vehicle purchase is usually right behind a home purchse, in terms of importance/price. The customer needs the business to protect them... sure, profits still need to be made. Why do you think the government controls home sales so much... with enough red tape to drive you nuts! It's to protect the home buyer from getting screwed.

Bottom line: the price of vehicles has not kept pace with inflation (and at a staggering rate over) and dealers have become so corrupt in their customer interactions that some dealers are actually marketing themselves as "One Price" or "No Haggle" or the "Fair Dealer"... how ironic.

<stepping off the soap box... look at the time

>

What was the question?

 

[Homer]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cmt4:
What was the question?</font>

Here's mine; considering Honda dealers are making a rather handsome profit on each Ody sale, why do some feel compelled to charge such ridiculously high prices for an extended warranty?

If it were me, I'd rather take the $50 profit than let the customer walk. After all, aren't they merely pushing paper?

 

[sweaver]

I went straight to Honda America with two letters that accompanied my survey. I am all for profit and in the past have given a minumum of $1k on every purchase (I make it a point to learn the dealer cost).

This last purchase was insane. The dealer went way overboard on every cost and then when he got a poor survey result called and complained. I tested him on the price of an accessory and he stood by his rediculous prices. That is when I ended the call.

I agree with the previous comment about the dealerships getting a windfall, the dealer even told me that was the case; but they have lost me as a customer. I hope they enjoy the extra money they got from me, because they lost a lifetime of service on all of my cars!

------------------
1996 Odyssey 120,000 miles
2002EX Odyssey w/towing package
http://www.homestead.com/weaverhouse/index.html

 

[Jim F]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Tim L:
You want the hottest car on the market and you want it free?? Come on, pay MSRP, buy the warranty at a reasonable price(i agree $1800 is overkill) and enjoy your new minivan.</font>

Uh ... yes. I would like to have it for free. I'll fight to the death to get the best deal. Screw MSRP. I care VERY little for dealers and their service departments incase you have never read my posts.


------------------
Jim
'01 GG EX w/stuff
'93 Nissan Sentra SE-R with more stuff

 

[nyvram]

Is it just me; or does Georgia seem to be the biggest 'screw me' state on Odys? I know CA ranks up there; but the stories coming out of that state (just anecdotal) seem to be that the prices are over MSRP just because of demand..

In GA, the stories seem to be more of the 'dealer put on pinstripes & wheel locks' and added 3k to the price...then bilked the customer on everything else too (financing, trade-in, extended warrnaty, accessories...).

 

[dkinne]

I really really doubt that Honda has deliberately plotted to under produce a very hot product. We are not talking Plymouth Prowler, Dodge Viper here.
If Honda wanted to be like the Debeers Diamond Cartel, they would not have spent tons of money on a new ODY plant.
Honda can make a lot more money selling more minivans at a slight discount over MSRP than they can on a limited number at MSRP.
I stand by my comment that given some time to catchup, we will see supply = demand and some sanity return to dealer pricing and profit margins.

 

[TWEX02]

Anyone close to Pittsburgh PA can get a RR EX-L $500 below MSRP from I-79 Honda.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by nyvram:
Is it just me; or does Georgia seem to be the biggest 'screw me' state on Odys? I know CA ranks up there; but the stories coming out of that state (just anecdotal) seem to be that the prices are over MSRP just because of demand..

In GA, the stories seem to be more of the 'dealer put on pinstripes & wheel locks' and added 3k to the price...then bilked the customer on everything else too (financing, trade-in, extended warrnaty, accessories...).</font>

------------------
**************
A Porsche soul in a minivan body
*********************

TW EX 02 Fog S-Guards (looking for interesting mods)
Subaru Legacy Wagon 97 White
Mazda MX6 93 Green

 

[Jerry O1]

dkinne- You're really messing up the minds of those who want this to be a "conspiracy", Hee! Hee!

Re Homer's comment re the extended warranty, Honda's warranties are quite reasonably priced as compared to DCs, even at "full, rip-off prices".

It is interesting how many folks bought the product and are still peeing and moaning about the deal. I paid "too much" for the van and "too much" for the warranty, but, the Odyssey is what I wanted and those were the prices it commanded in my neighborhood. Yes, I could have gone elsewhere, even out of state,but I feel I should live within the economy wherein I made my living.

Remember, it is only money and you can only spend the filthy stuff once. After all, spending is all money is good for, since you can't smoke it or eat it,and it makes real tacky wallpaper, Hee! Hee!

'Nuff said, by me, on this subject! I think I will go out and sit in my overpriced soccerbus and pretend it is my livingroom.

Jerry O.

------------------
2001 Odyssey GG LX