Ok team, here is one for us. I cant seem to get my auto doors to stop if there is an obstruction. Isnt there supposed to be a sensor? Or does it just reverse it it hits something? My 2yr old almost got a hand caught in it. I have tried to obstruct the line of the door while in motion to no avial thus far. I know I should read the manuel..but hey, I dont ask for directions either.
No stopping automatic doors
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Read your manual! Knowledge is power.
The doors need to come in contact with an obstruction. A certain amount of back pressure is needed to reverse the doors.
(Too much force in my opinion and the reason I bought an LX)
The doors need to come in contact with an obstruction. A certain amount of back pressure is needed to reverse the doors.
(Too much force in my opinion and the reason I bought an LX)
Too much force required is right. The force also has to be applied in a certain area (the rubber molding on the outer edge of the door). I think this is truly the reason so many can not stop the door... you're pushing in the "wrong" spot. Poor design, if you ask me.
I also have little ones, funny how that is with Ody owners. I now use a "paranoid" level of awareness when they are around the Ody. I wait until they are totally clear before I even THINK of closing the doors. I wait until the whole family is clear and then close the doors with the remote. Our children are also not allowed to close the doors, ever (they'll ALWAYS follow our rules
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). Of course, this will not protect them completely... after all, they can still pull the door handles themselves and cause injury.
One of those cost/benefit things.
If you know for sure that you are making contact with the pressure sensor, but the door still does not stop... I think a trip to the dealer may be in order.
P.S. Real men don't ask for directions!
I also have little ones, funny how that is with Ody owners. I now use a "paranoid" level of awareness when they are around the Ody. I wait until they are totally clear before I even THINK of closing the doors. I wait until the whole family is clear and then close the doors with the remote. Our children are also not allowed to close the doors, ever (they'll ALWAYS follow our rules
One of those cost/benefit things.
If you know for sure that you are making contact with the pressure sensor, but the door still does not stop... I think a trip to the dealer may be in order.
P.S. Real men don't ask for directions!
Our daughter is 4, and we have the same rule. The day we picked up our van, we showed her how the automatic doors work. We explained to her that she could get a very, very bad injury if her hand were to ever get caught in the door. She HATES "boo-boos" so she took our lecture very seriously. Not only is she not allowed to close or open the doors, she is not even permitted to touch the handles. My husband and I have both tested the doors by putting our hands in them, and they retract just fine.
Obviously, children and car doors of any kind don't mix. I actually consider my EX's slowly sliding doors to be much safer than manual doors that are shut more quickly and with much more force. I once witnessed my husband's hand get slammed in a car door, and it wasn't pretty. And my sister-in-law still cries when someone mentions the time she accidentally closed her van's sliding door on my niece's fingers.
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Erika
'02 SS Ody EXL-RES
'95 Honda Accord LX
[This message has been edited by mstaebo (edited 10-23-2001).]
[This message has been edited by mstaebo (edited 10-23-2001).]
I don't think the rubber molding has any sensors. The door senses an obstruction because of the increased current caused by the blockage. That what causes it to reverse, as I understand it.
Also, the reverse feature is inactive the last few inches of travel-just before it shuts, to allow the door to cinch down.
There is no reverse feature on opening if you used the door handle. The key fob or dash button will reverse the door on both opening or closing. Buttttttt---- guess what? My doors worked fine on reversing etc. until I tried the above methods-then they would not reverse from the closing direction without extreme force, almost enough to push me backwards (I weigh 200 lbs.), however-once I forced them to reverse-they required very little effort on subsequent trys.
I may play with this again tomorrow.
Also, the reverse feature is inactive the last few inches of travel-just before it shuts, to allow the door to cinch down.
There is no reverse feature on opening if you used the door handle. The key fob or dash button will reverse the door on both opening or closing. Buttttttt---- guess what? My doors worked fine on reversing etc. until I tried the above methods-then they would not reverse from the closing direction without extreme force, almost enough to push me backwards (I weigh 200 lbs.), however-once I forced them to reverse-they required very little effort on subsequent trys.
I may play with this again tomorrow.
Interesting. I could have sworn the saleman showed me the sensors on the molding when I purchased the Ody. Of course, we all know how knowledgeable those sales people can be.... I'm going to check this out on my Ody tonight. I honestly haven't looked at it since the day I purchased the Ody.
Car makers can certainly go overboard with "safety" items, but I still think the doors require too much resistance in order to reverse.
[This message has been edited by cmt4 (edited 10-24-2001).]
Car makers can certainly go overboard with "safety" items, but I still think the doors require too much resistance in order to reverse.
[This message has been edited by cmt4 (edited 10-24-2001).]
I think you mean less than the last inch or so.
FWIW I just got back from lunch and:
I tried mine with my forearm both at the window level and gasket level - both worked - that is appx 4.5"
I then tried my hand only (across the knuckle) and that worked as well - appx 1.5".
I then tried pushing against the door while it was sliding. The door was about 10-12" away before it started to reverse.
I'm not brave enough (or stupid enough) to try just my finger.
My understanding is that the door will not reverse until the last 12" of travel.
From Day 1 our now almost 5 YO son has been told that the powers doors and any vehicles are off limits as places to play, explore, touch, etc. So far so good.
I checked my Odys doors again. They are not consistent in their method of operation (reversing) I could not come up with a repeatable scenario which caused the doors to function properly> they definitley do not operate as they did when I first bought it. I demonstrated the operation of the doors several times when I first bought the van and they were consistent then.
I called a Honda dealer and he said there was no problem with the doors. He offered several excuses as to why the operation was proper, including the reverse feature isn't active when they first start to close and at the last few inches of movement. When I explained that I was aware of that,but had tried the doors in several configurations, he still would not believe there was a problem. I then suggested I bring the van down and show him the problem. He agreed this would be a good idea even though he didn't think it was necessary.
I then asked if an evening appointment as I wanted him to bring his grandchildren and place them in the path of the doors to test their operation. He said that was ridiculous. Imagine that. No faith in the product?
It's due for service in a couple of weeks and if the problem is repeatable I'll let you know the results. In the meantime, I'll look up the NHTSA site and see if there is anything on them there.
We need to keep after these people, but if this works out as well as my "crossbar" problem, then it's a waste of time.
CMT4- The operation of the doors was just my guess,however, I did not notice any sensors. I'll try and see if my Service manual can give any input. It would seem that they would want something that would sense an obstruction anywhere in the doors path-not just in the plane of the sensors.
Regards
Al
I called a Honda dealer and he said there was no problem with the doors. He offered several excuses as to why the operation was proper, including the reverse feature isn't active when they first start to close and at the last few inches of movement. When I explained that I was aware of that,but had tried the doors in several configurations, he still would not believe there was a problem. I then suggested I bring the van down and show him the problem. He agreed this would be a good idea even though he didn't think it was necessary.
I then asked if an evening appointment as I wanted him to bring his grandchildren and place them in the path of the doors to test their operation. He said that was ridiculous. Imagine that. No faith in the product?
It's due for service in a couple of weeks and if the problem is repeatable I'll let you know the results. In the meantime, I'll look up the NHTSA site and see if there is anything on them there.
We need to keep after these people, but if this works out as well as my "crossbar" problem, then it's a waste of time.
CMT4- The operation of the doors was just my guess,however, I did not notice any sensors. I'll try and see if my Service manual can give any input. It would seem that they would want something that would sense an obstruction anywhere in the doors path-not just in the plane of the sensors.
Regards
Al
There are eight complaints on the 2001 Ody doors on the NHTSA website. I think that's a lot considering that few people will go thru the trouble to fill out a complaint. Let's all add ours-for our kids, pets, and safety sake in general. Maybe enough numbers will make them listen. (That may be what they mean when they say there's safety in numbers).
In edit-there are 21 complaints on 00 models,20 on 99. I'm sure a personal injury lawyer would find these figures interesting. Heaven knows I have little respect for P.I. lawyers, but the Honda dealer I talked to today said: "We have no reports of any injurys from them(the doors). Was anyone injured by your doors? When I said "no", then his attitude was a "then what's the problem"type.
Maybe lawsuits are all these people understand. They deny problems until they can no longer ignore the evidence.
I'll be adding my complaint to the file at the NHTSA.
End of rant.
Regards
Al
[This message has been edited by albaby (edited 10-24-2001).]
[This message has been edited by albaby (edited 10-24-2001).]
[This message has been edited by albaby (edited 10-24-2001).]
In edit-there are 21 complaints on 00 models,20 on 99. I'm sure a personal injury lawyer would find these figures interesting. Heaven knows I have little respect for P.I. lawyers, but the Honda dealer I talked to today said: "We have no reports of any injurys from them(the doors). Was anyone injured by your doors? When I said "no", then his attitude was a "then what's the problem"type.
Maybe lawsuits are all these people understand. They deny problems until they can no longer ignore the evidence.
I'll be adding my complaint to the file at the NHTSA.
End of rant.
Regards
Al
[This message has been edited by albaby (edited 10-24-2001).]
[This message has been edited by albaby (edited 10-24-2001).]
[This message has been edited by albaby (edited 10-24-2001).]
I have heard that the doors approximate the force that they need to close during the first few seconds of operation.
This way, if they are on a hill, they can still close. So, my guess is that after they have "figured" out how much force is needed to keep them moving, but before they get close enough to latch, they will reverse if they encounter enough opposing force.
When I had my '01, I tested and concluded that this theory was likely to be correct.
Sounds like a lot of trouble. Why can't we just have a lip on the door that easily retracts and actuates a switch to reverse? The lip could be positioned so that it does not hit anything when it closes w/o obstruction. Like elevator doors.
Then any slight collision would cause a reverse of the door.
The current system is a bit dangerous -- if there is an obstruction early in the door closing process, the doors will use great force (thinking that they need to), and will take even greater force to reverse. This could cause bruising or even break some bones -- but I still think it is safer than having a slider slammed on you.
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2002 Mesa Beige EX-L-RES - on order
2001 Mesa Beige EX - recently sold
This way, if they are on a hill, they can still close. So, my guess is that after they have "figured" out how much force is needed to keep them moving, but before they get close enough to latch, they will reverse if they encounter enough opposing force.
When I had my '01, I tested and concluded that this theory was likely to be correct.
Sounds like a lot of trouble. Why can't we just have a lip on the door that easily retracts and actuates a switch to reverse? The lip could be positioned so that it does not hit anything when it closes w/o obstruction. Like elevator doors.
Then any slight collision would cause a reverse of the door.
The current system is a bit dangerous -- if there is an obstruction early in the door closing process, the doors will use great force (thinking that they need to), and will take even greater force to reverse. This could cause bruising or even break some bones -- but I still think it is safer than having a slider slammed on you.
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2002 Mesa Beige EX-L-RES - on order
2001 Mesa Beige EX - recently sold
I checked my doors last night ('01 EX). There is absolutely no "sensor" on the doors. I tested each side two times, for a total of four tests. In each test I put pressure on a different part of the door edge. In two tests I tried to stop the door early and in the other two tests, I tried to stop it later. In every test the door failed to reverse. This is also not how the doors originally operated... both my wife and I were successful in reversing the doors when we first purchased the Ody. This was done with an acceptable level of force.
The tests last night have me really worried. In all four tests I was able to stop the motion of the door, but the door motor was fighting me the whole time. As soon as I let go, the doors proceeded to close. These doors really rocked my body when I fought to stop them... something my wife and children would not have the strength to accomplish. I was worried about damaging the door motors, so I did not perform any more tests.
I will have my wife try a test today. If she can not reverse the doors, then we will be heading to the dealer.
The tests last night have me really worried. In all four tests I was able to stop the motion of the door, but the door motor was fighting me the whole time. As soon as I let go, the doors proceeded to close. These doors really rocked my body when I fought to stop them... something my wife and children would not have the strength to accomplish. I was worried about damaging the door motors, so I did not perform any more tests.
I will have my wife try a test today. If she can not reverse the doors, then we will be heading to the dealer.
I tried the doors at least a dozen times on level ground (in my garage),form several different closing positions and could not come up with any consistent operation. The closest it came to being consistent was at the last 8-10 inches of closure where it reversed several times, however, in one instance i considered myself lucky to escape with my fingers intact. I'll use a block of styrofoam next time.
I found that these doors could result in more than pinched fingers. I was leaning over the second row seats retrieving a package when I thought what could happen if I were a small child doing the same thing and the door started to close. or a kid that had his/her foot in the lower track and the door started to close. Of course, these rae all hypothetical cases, but I'm sure there are others that could result in worse injury. I agree nothing is perfectly safe-but these doors don't meet my expectations.
Another theory-without much basis. These doors have a revolution counter on their motors that tell the door where it is at in the opening or closing cycle. If these counters are defective, then the door would not know whether it is just starting or finishing the opening cycle, in which both cases, the reverse feature is locked out-as I understand it for now-until I get better information.
Regards
Al
OK-here it is-straight out of the Honda Service Manual.
OBSTRUCTION DETECTION FUNCTION
When opening the sliding doors: ( I think it should read "closing")
"A sensor in the sliding door motor outputs pulses at a constant rate. When something is pinched in the sliding door, the pulse rate changes. The control unit detects this and then stops the motor, sounds the buzzer 3 times, and reverses its direction. The door will then open automatically at the same rate it would normally open."
It also says-under a different heading-the pulse sensor determines the fully open position by counting the pulse of the slide motor.
Also-under "Fail safe function" "When a power sliding door is in the half latched position, the obstruction detection function is off. If the corresponding power sliding door control unit recieves any signal from the dash switch,the remote control switch, (inner or outer door handles), or the factory keyless reciever while the in the half latched position, the control unit sounds the buzzer three times and activates the release motor. The release motor pulls the failsafe lever to mechanically disengage the closer motor from the latch. Once the latch and closer motor are disengaged, the slide motor will partially open the door".
I could not find any reference to the motor having to seek any special inputs during the first part of the open or close cycle, such as torque requirements that may be different if vehicle was facing uphill etc. Looks like it's number and speed of the rotational pulses. Might be there, but if it is-I missed it. Page 22-244
Regards
Al
OBSTRUCTION DETECTION FUNCTION
When opening the sliding doors: ( I think it should read "closing")
"A sensor in the sliding door motor outputs pulses at a constant rate. When something is pinched in the sliding door, the pulse rate changes. The control unit detects this and then stops the motor, sounds the buzzer 3 times, and reverses its direction. The door will then open automatically at the same rate it would normally open."
It also says-under a different heading-the pulse sensor determines the fully open position by counting the pulse of the slide motor.
Also-under "Fail safe function" "When a power sliding door is in the half latched position, the obstruction detection function is off. If the corresponding power sliding door control unit recieves any signal from the dash switch,the remote control switch, (inner or outer door handles), or the factory keyless reciever while the in the half latched position, the control unit sounds the buzzer three times and activates the release motor. The release motor pulls the failsafe lever to mechanically disengage the closer motor from the latch. Once the latch and closer motor are disengaged, the slide motor will partially open the door".
I could not find any reference to the motor having to seek any special inputs during the first part of the open or close cycle, such as torque requirements that may be different if vehicle was facing uphill etc. Looks like it's number and speed of the rotational pulses. Might be there, but if it is-I missed it. Page 22-244
Regards
Al
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