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Hey guys I’m new to the forum and up to today was a Honda fan forever. Just bought a 2014 Odyssey 4 months ago with 71k. It’s fully Honda certified. Wife started it yesterday and it freaked out_ bad idle, flashing check engine the works. So we flat bedded it to Honda and I get a lovely call today stating it’s number three cylinder piston ring and Honda certified won’t cover it. And it’s a 2900 job. I’m literally speechless. I’ve read up on the issue and understand it. However I just got the damn thing 4 months ago. I called Honda NA they said it was covered. Honda care said it was covered. They dealer keeps telling me when they call Honda it’s 50/50. If they break down the motor and find a lot of carbon build up it won’t be covered. I feel like I’m really gett the run around and oh yea also I’m in a 40 dollar a day rental and it’s basicslly Christmas. This really isn’t good. I will personally make a part time job out of convincing people not to buy Honda’s if my Honda NA case rep doesn’t agree with me. Any thoughts? Can they rally deny a powertrain issue on a certified Honda? Not to mention my first year is basically bumper to bumper? This is a nightmare and Going back to a Sienna is looking better and better as the hours pass. Please help with any suggestions!,

also, Merry Christmas!
 

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I'm surprised your dealer says that, given that Honda NA pretty much guarantees they will get paid (assuming the correct codes, symptoms). Do you have another Honda dealer nearby? If not you are kinda stuck with this one. However, if you can speak with a rep at Honda NA, it would probably be worth mentioning the dealer's statements. The Honda NA rep may have suggestions on how to proceed with the warranty claim at your dealer. After all, this is a known problem and Honda is required to cover the ring job.

One more thing. After the repair, you can reduce the likelihood of this issue in the future by getting a muzzler (or similar).
 

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It sounds like you should take it to another dealer if it's drivable. If it's Certified, I would refer your dealer to the Honda CPO website and ask them to explain why it's not covered either under the powertrain warranty or the limited bumper-to-bumper coverage. The diagnosis, the fix, and your rental should all be covered. Honda NA says it's covered, so it's as simple as your dealer making one phone call to verify.

The only way I could see them arguing it's not covered is if it was caused by damage/neglect/accident, but this doesn't sound like the previous owner neglected the van. If Honda certified it, in addition to the multi-point inspection they performed, they probably had a good service record of routine maintenance, proper OEM parts being used, correct plugs installed, etc. that would have avoided this catastrophic problem. This sounds like a legit mechanical failure under warranty to me. Put your "pleasant but convincing" hat on and persuade them.
 

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When you are at the dealership, do a conference call with Honda NA. That way it is not he said she said. You will have all the parties talking all at the same time.

If and when you call Honda NA, get them to issue a case number so that dealership will have something to reference by. And when you call from the dealership, you can use the reference/case number to go by.

Dealership doesn’t want to get stuck with the repair cost, and they want to make sure someone will be paying for the service.

Carbon build up doesn’t happen over 4 months, and since you bought it CPO, everything should be covered, especially engine.

Once you get the engine fixed up, make sure to get and install muzzler to prevent any future issues relating to VCM.

Good luck.


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VCM related. All of this was part of a class action in the past. I had two at the time. One was taken care of by my dealership, the other I paid for (before the settlement) and Honda sent me a check.

Yes, the lawsuit did not cover 2014 (4th Gen) because Honda suppose to have made improvments. But that does not mean it won't happen, as it did in your case.

That dealership is not who you want to work with.
 

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Any updates from folks who had a hard time with getting this covered? My 2014 is just shy of 71k and the same problem happened this afternoon. Took it to Honda and they said they have to tear down to check for carbon build up—if there is none they’ll cover it under the Honda care, if there is build up then it’s my problem. No other issues up until today. Had to agree to the tear down for them to proceed with getting a Honda care certified rep to come out and do the evaluation.
 

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I love it when people, including Honda, say the VCM issues have been fixed. It's a flawed system from the start. Disable VCM, people! Trusting Honda's engineering will just put many people in this predicament.
 

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Update: heard from Honda Certified Rep—they said there was carbon found so not covered. No signs of neglect or other issues though! He then sent me to Customer relations who also opened a case to look into it. As of yet I’ve not received any good explanation for causes of the carbon build up or what creates the need to replace piston rings 1, 2 and 3 from Honda. No one from Honda has ever uttered VCM even when I inquired if it could be related to this. Service tech has just said that after they’ve done this piston ring repair with other vehicles they’ve never had one come back?!?
Still hopeful that something can be worked out with Customer Relations, but at this point I would say the CPO warranty is worthless.
 

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Excuse the language but that is complete and utter bullshit. I read through the certified warranty booklet and that’s a crap cop out. The engine has over 70k miles on it, what engine wouldn’t have “some” carbon buildup? Especially this van that turns off half of the damned cylinders?

We’ll cover everything in the block and it’s internal parts. Unless there a hint that it burns gasoline, then it’s a no go.

Do you have any pictures of the offending “buildup”? I’d want that from the dealership. I’m so sorry you’re going through this, you absolutely shouldn’t be hung out to dry over it. I’m never buying a certified Honda if they don’t resolve this for you because clearly that warranty isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.
 

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Stuff like this comes from Honda more and more, and it is one thing that is driving me away from owning Honda. I’ve been Honda owner for past 23 years, and I always recommended Honda over other vehicles. No more. I owned 2 odyssey and the current 2013 is probably gonna be traded in. What engine doesn’t show a carbon build up at 70k? What type of excuse to get out of owning up to their CPO warranty? Why would anyone get CPO if something like this is not covered? I’ve been disappointed with honda and their warranty group many times, and such a disappointment.


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With the way Honda North America is treating customers, I certainly will consider my Odyssey to be my first and last Honda in a long time.

I imagine the carbon build up is only going to get worse with all their new direct injected engines.
 

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With the way Honda North America is treating customers, I certainly will consider my Odyssey to be my first and last Honda in a long time.

I imagine the carbon build up is only going to get worse with all their new direct injected engines.
I didn’t even think about that. Those engines will definitely have more buildup somewhere vs traditional fuel injection. I think they added an injector in the intake to clean but I doubt it’ll be as clean as the older design.
 

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I didn’t even think about that. Those engines will definitely have more buildup somewhere vs traditional fuel injection. I think they added an injector in the intake to clean but I doubt it’ll be as clean as the older design.
I haven’t read or heard that Honda is using dual injector engines like Lexus and ford, which some of their engines are equip with both port and direct injection engines. Costs more, but theory is that it will keep the engines bit cleaner with port inject, and performance of direct injection.

I think Honda is only direct injection at the moment.


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I haven’t read or heard that Honda is using dual injector engines like Lexus and ford, which some of their engines are equip with both port and direct injection engines. Costs more, but theory is that it will keep the engines bit cleaner with port inject, and performance of direct injection.

I think Honda is only direct injection at the moment.


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Correct. Part of the reason to run dual (port and direct) injection is to reduce particulate emissions. Some manufacturers in Europe have resorted to adding particulate filters to GDI engines. Pretty much the same as DPFs... I believe the VW group runs particulate filters in some GDI applications, and in others has dual injection.
 

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Bleh, I gave Honda the benefit of the doubt by hoping they put in dual injection. That's too bad.

My Mazda CX-5 is direct injection but apparently they went through some painstaking effort to ensure the intake stays hot enough to prevent carbon buildup. It doesn't really work well for city driving but it seems to keep things clean enough with highway driving.
 

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Update: heard from Honda Certified Rep—they said there was carbon found so not covered. No signs of neglect or other issues though! He then sent me to Customer relations who also opened a case to look into it. As of yet I’ve not received any good explanation for causes of the carbon build up or what creates the need to replace piston rings 1, 2 and 3 from Honda. No one from Honda has ever uttered VCM even when I inquired if it could be related to this. Service tech has just said that after they’ve done this piston ring repair with other vehicles they’ve never had one come back?!?
Still hopeful that something can be worked out with Customer Relations, but at this point I would say the CPO warranty is worthless.
This is where you need to become your own advocate and do some leg work.
Carbon build up story is interesting new BS route to detract from VCM issues.
I have seen VW GDI TFSI engine first hand, when I was performing carbon cleaning
procedure and replacing intake manifold, so I know what real carbon build up looks like.
I assume they are looking for carbon on intake valves. Given, that your engine is not
direct injection, you can have very mild case of carbon build up, which by no means
should result in any kind of misfire.
The real cause of VCM misfire is typically a spark plug. To this end, you need to request
or take pictures of plug from the effected cylinder and any carbon build up bs that dealer
found.
I have posted pics of VCM effected plugs on this forum before, they will look severely fowled,
and even possibly be missing some of the ceramic element.

Then collect your evidence and present to Honda corporate.
I have no doubt that at some point, the newer vintage v6 models will also get a similar lawsuit settlement.
Good luck and post your pics.
 

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Thanks for this information. I have been on the phone with the Dealer Service, American Honda Customer Service and Honda Certified Warranty today. Dealer says the decision to deny claim is on the Certified Warranty folks; the Certified Warranty folks say it was a mutual decision between the information they got from the service tech and pictures taken when their reviewer (subcontracted) went to take pictures. I asked for a name of who made the decision or at least signed off on it and by what standards they judged the "carbon buildup" and got nothing from them. I'm supposed to get a call back from CW but I doubt that I'm getting much. American Honda is supposed to be calling a district manager in to review this case but was upfront in saying that they rarely go against what the Certified Warranty people say. I've asked everyone that I can for pictures and no one has given me anything. I'm likely going to have to go back to the dealership and try to get an appointment with the service manager to get any chance at seeing the "issue". All told over 4 hours on the phone in the last 24 trying to get information and any answer that can help explain this issue in a logical way...
 

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I'm the last guy to do this, but maybe a local news outlet will be interested in hearing your story. I've seen things taken care of very quickly once the NYC news stations have gotten involved at times over here.
 

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Thanks for this information. I have been on the phone with the Dealer Service, American Honda Customer Service and Honda Certified Warranty today. Dealer says the decision to deny claim is on the Certified Warranty folks; the Certified Warranty folks say it was a mutual decision between the information they got from the service tech and pictures taken when their reviewer (subcontracted) went to take pictures. I asked for a name of who made the decision or at least signed off on it and by what standards they judged the "carbon buildup" and got nothing from them. I'm supposed to get a call back from CW but I doubt that I'm getting much. American Honda is supposed to be calling a district manager in to review this case but was upfront in saying that they rarely go against what the Certified Warranty people say. I've asked everyone that I can for pictures and no one has given me anything. I'm likely going to have to go back to the dealership and try to get an appointment with the service manager to get any chance at seeing the "issue". All told over 4 hours on the phone in the last 24 trying to get information and any answer that can help explain this issue in a logical way...
Just to clarify what Honda's point is here, are they saying there is carbon build up that causes misfire?
 
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