Honda Odyssey Forum banner

1 - 20 of 102 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,115 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
2001 Honda Odyssey with 65K miles –REAR Brake Shoes Replacement

*** Symptoms: Every time main brake or parking brake is applied, a squeaking noise is heard in the REAR Brake. Honda issued a TSB in the past to fix this noise. Basically lack of lubrication between the Rear Brake Shoes at Areas where they contact the “Backing Plate”.
This procedure will show you how to do it.

GENERAL NOTES:

- Since my Ody has 65K miles, I decided to change the Brake Shoes as there is only 2mm Shoe Thickness remained (Service Limit) at FRONT LOWER corner. However, I am sure you can drive to 80-90K without problems because most of the Braking force is on the FRONT wheels anyway.
- You can use Helms or Chilton’s Repair Manual but Chilton’s mentioned apply grease the shoe ends and sides. I have a better technique (read on).
- I bought the REAR Brake Shoes from www.autohausaz.com for $25.00 (for set of 4 shoes). The mfg is “Enduro”. Of course, you can use Honda OEM, but they are more expensive (approx. $60-70/set of 4 shoes).
- For Brake Grease, use either high-temperature “Molykote 44MA” or “Permatex Anti-Seize Lubricant”:
http://www.permatex.com/products/automotive/b_lubricants/a_lubricants/Permatex_Anti-Seize_Lubricant_a.htm

(These 2 products are basically the same thing)
-------

1. Apply a small amount of grease to the two 8 x 1.25 mm bolts and use these bolts to remove the stubborn Brake Drum. Two turns at a time. You may want to tap with a Rubber Hammer to help release the Brake Drum. After the Brake Drum is removed, Study the REAR Brake Anatomy.
Your Ody may be different so you may want to take a digital picture before disassembly just in case.

2. Remove “Self-Adjuster Spring B” and “Self-Adjusting LEVER”

3. Remove “Upper Retaining Spring A”

4. Remove the “Retaining Clip” holding the FRONT Shoe and remove the FRONT Shoe. This is done by using a needle-nose plier to squeeze the clip down and wiggle it out. The Adjuster Bolt can now be removed (Note the orientation for installation).

5. Note the “Lower Retaining Spring B” sits behind the metal bracket, so when installing make sure it sits in the same place.

6. Now remove the "Retaining Clip” holding the REAR Shoe and remove the REAR Shoe.

(cont'd)
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,115 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
REAR Brake Shoe Part II

7. Now you can see Brake Shoes wear at 65K miles. It is kind of uneven with some areas with 3.5mm and some with only 2mm (This is the nature of any drum brake as the shoes do not form a perfect “circle” conforming to the Brake Drum).
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,115 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
REAR Brake Shoe Part III

8. Now turn the Brake Drum around, you will see some rust building up at the outer lip. Sand this area with sandpaper until it is smooth, otherwise, you will NOT be able to re-install the Brake Drum because of tight tolerances here, the “rust ridge” will prevent the Brake Drum from going in.

(cont'd)
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,115 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
REAR Brake Shoe Part IV

9. Now make a note of the old Brake Shoes and see how the “Parking Brake LEVER” is attached to it. (NOTE: The FRONT Shoe is different from the REAR Shoe).

10. Remove the “U clip” by either:
- chisel and hammer (be gentle) it out…or

- vice-grip squeezing the “ends of U clip” and the “pin”
Then transfer this “Parking Brake LEVER” to the New Shoe.
(Lubricate the pin of the "Parking Brake LEVER" with a small dab of grease then re-insert "U Clip").
Note: You should use a new “U clip”, I did this on a Sunday so no dealer opened, ended up re-using the “U clip”. Just squeeze the ends gently together so it will not come out.

(cont'd)
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,115 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
REAR Brake Shoe Part V

11. Now is the IMPORTANT Part. Apply grease to ALL parts with movement:
- Parking Brake Cable where it enters the Rear Brake Assembly.

- Brake Adjuster Threads and Pivot Points (Note: during installation, keep the “Thermal Clip” facing toward axle, otherwise it will interfere with “Upper Retaining Spring A”)

- All “Raised” areas on the “Backing Plate” where the Brake Shoes rub against. This is what causes squeaking noise when applying brakes. It is very obvious when the brake shoes are removed, you will see the “contact” points very well. In the picture, you see that grease is applied at these raised areas.

- Opposing ends of Brake Cylinder

- Opposite ends of “Lower Brake Shoe Resting Block”

(cont'd)
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,115 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
REAR Brake Shoe Part VI

12. To re-install, REVERSE steps 1-6 in Part I above.

- IMPORTANT: Now turn the “Star Wheel” in the “Adjuster Assembly” until the opposite ends barely touch the Brake Shoes. Then turn the “Star Wheel” another 4-5 clicks.
*** IMPORTANT NOTE: AT THIS STAGE, Clean the Shoe BRAKING SURFACES with Brake Cleaner to make sure no grease is left on the Braking Surface. Then install Brake Drum (also make sure the braking surface of the drum is free of oil or grease).
- Install the Brake Drum and rotate it, there should be a slight drag when the Brake Drum is rotated but not more than that.
- You may have to remove the Brake Drum and repeat this step a few times to have a feel for it (Adjust the Star Wheel as necessary). Basically, when completed, there should be a slight drag when the Brake Drum is rotated.
- With Brake Drum in place (but road wheel NOT installed), gently apply main brake a few times to seat in the Brake Cylinder ends. Now apply Emergency Brake. You should not be able to turn the Brake Drum by hand.

NOTE: Never, never, and never apply the brake without the Brake Drum installed, you will force the Cylinder pistons out and cause damage to the Brake Cylinder.

Then Bleed the Hydraulic System (This is an option).


**** Once done, install the wheel and tell your wife (or significant other) that you are a wonderful husband fixing the Rear Brake noise for her and you need to be “compensated" properly.:D :D :D :D :D :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
249 Posts
cnn, Thanks for taking the time to share your experience. The write-up and photos are outstanding. I'll make sure to print a copy when it's time to replace my rear brake shoes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
KUDOS! Here is printable .pdf of it

Folks, this is a miracle! I have a 1999 Odyssey, and twice each a very good local imported car mechanic and a Honda dealer have tried to find the problem, but they could not. So just a half hour ago I started googling, and found this forum. And, low and behold, the one sticky note in this forum is on that topic, and it was posted just a day ago. Miraculous!

When was this TSB issued, BTW? Does anyone have a link to it, or at least the TSB number or title?

I have pasted in all the steps and the pictures, reformatted a little to make it more nicely printable, then created a .pdf out of it so others can print it out for easy reference. The URL is here . Enjoy!

Thanks again, much, cnn. Let me know if you would like the .pdf tweaked in any way (I took a few formatting liberties). I have printed it out IN COLOR and will take to my local mechanic tomorrow AM.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,115 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Dave, Some clarifications

davebakken said:
Folks, this is a miracle! I have a 1999 Odyssey, and twice each a very good local imported car mechanic and a Honda dealer have tried to find the problem, but they could not. So just a half hour ago I started googling, and found this forum. And, low and behold, the one sticky note in this forum is on that topic, and it was posted just a day ago. Miraculous!

When was this TSB issued, BTW? Does anyone have a link to it, or at least the TSB number or title?

I have pasted in all the steps and the pictures, reformatted a little to make it more nicely printable, then created a .pdf out of it so others can print it out for easy reference. The URL is here . Enjoy!

Thanks again, much, cnn. Let me know if you would like the .pdf tweaked in any way (I took a few formatting liberties). I have printed it out IN COLOR and will take to my local mechanic tomorrow AM.
Thanks for taking the time to convert to pdf format.

There are 2 different kinds of noise from REAR Drum:

1. Squeaky in REAR Drum at rest (van not moving).
Put transmission in "P", apply main brake, there is a squeaky noise.
Now apply Emergency Brake, there is also squeaky noise.
Brake performance is still good.


2. Squeaky and Groaning noise in REAR Drum when COMING TO A STOP (like a SCHOOLBUS):

a. Honda TSB 03-013 advises to change REAR Drums:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/sub_care_clinic/1272136.html?page=3&c=y

However I doubt it.

b. Brake squeaking and groaning when COMING TO A STOP, true for either Disc or Drum Brakes, is caused by:
i) atmosphere (worse when humid)
ii) brake metal surface material (rotor or drum)
iii) brake pad/shoe material
iv) brake pad/shoe "oscillating" back and forth at low speed when coming to a stop.
(To illustrate this, rub your running shoes on linoleum flooring:
@ fast speed...it moves nicely
@ at low speed.... it grabs and groans)

My theory is WHEN COMING TO A STOP, because of lack of lubrication where the Shoes contact the Backing Plate, the "Oscillating" motion of the Shoes cause this high-pitch sound.

But my problem was #1 above, so all REAR Brake noise is now gone.

If your problem is #2, it does not hurt to try my tips. If all noise gone then it confirmed the problem to be from lack of lubrication where the Shoes rub against the "Backing Plate".
If this does not solve the problem, you may have to try Honda TSB: "New Drum".

Hope this helps. Let us know if my tips solve your problem.

PS: Search this forum under "Rear Drum", there have been some discussions recently about this problem
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Re: Dave, Some clarifications

cnn said:
There are 2 different kinds of noise from REAR Drum:

2. Squeaky and Groaning noise in REAR Drum when COMING TO A STOP (like a SCHOOLBUS):
Yup, this is my case. Thanks for the additional clarification. I will take these tips (and search in the forum as you say) and take it to my mechanic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Re: Dave saw your pdf it is "odyclub.com" NOT "odyclub.org"

Originally posted by cnn You may want to edit it.
I would be happy to do so. What edits do you suggest? Just adding in the clarification you added above? If its something else let me know and I will be happy to, or I can email you the formatted .doc if that is easier for you to tweak.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Self adjusting rear brakes?

Just curious. Are the rear brake shoes self-adjusting or do you have to do so manually thru a hole in the rear of the backing plate?

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,115 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Re: Self adjusting rear brakes? The answer isYES

dnice said:
Just curious. Are the rear brake shoes self-adjusting or do you have to do so manually thru a hole in the rear of the backing plate? Thanks.
If you look through this link:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/drum-brake.htm

Most DRUM brakes work the same way, they "self-adjust" so the shoes are always touching the drum slightly.
Then when you brake the cylinder pistons do not have to work too hard to push the shoes out.

However, over time, grease dries out and rust forms and the self-adjusting mechanism may be stuck. So even in Ody DRUM brake, I still think it is a good idea to inspect the REAR DRUM every 50K, you may not need to change the shoes but at least the REAR DRUM can be serviced with proper lubrication to ensure trouble-free operation.

I do not think you have to adjust the starwheel through the hole in the backing plate, unless you have a problem w the brake.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
13 Posts
Thanks for the posting of your instructions. My 01 just started the squealing at 52,000 miles. These instructions will be very handy. Thank you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Re: Dave, Some clarifications

Originally posted by cnn Hope this helps. Let us know if my tips solve your problem.
My noise is fixed!

My mechanic is not sure exactly whic part did it. As Honda recommended, he replaced the brake shoes and the brake drums (mine is at 115K so its overdue). Plus used a hi-temp moly-based grease, which he said is better than what Honda recommends. He did see and utilize some these instructions from this forum, too.

I have reposted the .pdf with the updated instructions (fixed domain name) in a nice printable PDF form; the link is the same, here

Thanks again for the help, cnn!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,115 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Glad it helps you

davebakken said:
My noise is fixed!

My mechanic is not sure exactly whic part did it. As Honda recommended, he replaced the brake shoes and the brake drums (mine is at 115K so its overdue). Plus used a hi-temp moly-based grease, which he said is better than what Honda recommends. He did see and utilize some these instructions from this forum, too.

I have reposted the .pdf with the updated instructions (fixed domain name) in a nice printable PDF form; the link is the same, here

Thanks again for the help, cnn!
Brake noise article that everyone should keep:

http://www.aa1car.com/library/tr996.htm

Basically alot of it has to do with the brake pad/shoe material rather the metal drum or rotor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
33 Posts
I have had the same problem (loud groan) for a while now. I took apart the whole assembly, greased all contact points and the problem went away, for a while.

Recently we took the car in to get the EGR and Catalytic converter replaced and the mechanic did something to the rear brakes and the problem went away....for a while.

I am looking for recommendations for new drums. I am not sure this is the problem but all new parts seems to be the next logical step.

Any recommendations on brake drums? They seem to vary in price $50 to $100.

thanks
 
1 - 20 of 102 Posts
About this Discussion
101 Replies
51 Participants
themanro
Honda Odyssey Forum
Odyclub community is the #1 forum to discuss all things Honda Odyssey: minivans, safety, service maintenance, mods, and more.
Full Forum Listing
Top