[scifan]

Yeah, I know there are other threads, but I'm unsure if the issue I'm experiencing is the same as the others. I have an 05 Touring... with ~ 74k miles on it.

Bought it Friday before last... drove it around all day saturday with no issues, drove it a short distance Sunday... Monday drove my wife and daughter to school (wife was going to be a chaperone for a multi-day 5th grade field trip). Stopped to turn left onto the street that the schools are on (~ 2 mile trip) And the MIL started flashing... the van started running incredibly rough... serious loss of power... managed to get it the 2 blocks to the school, turned it off... unloaded their bags, and then left to go back home... ran rough all the way home with the MIL flashing the entire distance...

Let it sit for about 30 minutes (waiting for the bus for the two kids who weren't going on the extended field trip) and then checked and the engine ran fine, and the MIL stayed on... took it to the dealership that I bought it from (they'd promised to make anything wrong right for the first 90 days... then I'd have to rely on the warranty I'd bought...) they said something about the detailers getting a little too carried away while pressure washing the engine... pulled spark plugs, dried stuff out, and put it back together and it ran fine the rest of the day.

Next day I drove it to a cash machine after kids had gotten on the bus... about 1.5 miles from home turned left into a shopping complex and it started running rough again with the MIL flashing... stopped at the cash machine, turned it off, and ~ 5 minutes later it was running fine again, and this time no code was stored... (MIL was off)... called the dealership was told no code, don't bother bringing it by... it ran fine the rest of the week, didn't drive this Sunday...

Monday, it did the same thing to my wife (same shopping complex)...

Took it into the dealership Yesterday... and they drove it around in the evening and it did it to their technician as well... Dealership is a Toyota dealership... learned this afternoon that they've taken it across the street to a Honda dealership for further diagnosis...

Not sure what to expect to hear... Anyone else ran into something similar to this experience?

 

[scifan]

(oh, and lost in the mix, my new nav disc came in today... they're supposed to install that and verify the nav system's happy before I get this back as well as fixing my front power accessory ports...)

Can't say that I've had this much issue with a vehicle I've just bought before... I sure hope it isn't a foreshadow of things to come...

 

[OdyProspect]

The code is probably still stored in the computer even though the MIL is off.

Could be a ignition coil. you need to read the code, that's what they're for.

 

[dvpatel]

The code is probably still stored in the computer even though the MIL is off.

Could be a ignition coil. you need to read the code, that's what they're for.

I dout it. Only a very very small subset of codes are stored without the MIL On. So, NO dealer checks your codes for you if the MIL is off because the odds are no codes are stored. I have never heard of a dealer finding a code if MIL's off. I know that Nissans have "ghost" codes that are stored with the MIL off. Perhaps Hondas have 'em too but they're called ghost codes because they by themselves are mostly worthless without a legit code that turns the MIL on.

Like the dealer told OP, if this were my car, I would not bother taking it in without the MIL on.

 

[scifan]

I was about doing the happy dance yesterday when I learned that it'd started doing this while on a test drive for the dealer technician... however, I'm unsure if they pulled a code or not... I hope so... whatever the case, I just hope they can resolve the issue.

I did take it by O'reilly and had one of the guys come out and help me check for codes, and nothing was stored after one of the rough running events...

I'm tempted to buy an OBD II reader - one that can record live data... those aren't too expensive.

 

[OdyProspect]

I dout it. Only a very very small subset of codes are stored without the MIL On. So, NO dealer checks your codes for you if the MIL is off because the odds are no codes are stored. I have never heard of a dealer finding a code if MIL's off.

Good info. The Ody is my first Honda. Toyotas often hold the data on intermittent errors that trip a CEL (Check Engine Light) but later resolve.

 

[scifan]

Sounds like they updated the code in my ECU (or PCM?) and that's "solved" my engine issue... While I'd like to get the details, my guess is my wife will be the one picking it up tomorrow... assuming they can get the nav system happy... the power outlets were apparently a fuse... (one fuse that took out both front power accessory outlets... but I thought I checked all of the appropriate fuses...)

Hoping this solves that issue.

 

[scifan]

So... it did it again... the engine didn't run as rough this time... just had zero power... with a flashing check engine light... guess it's back to the dealership again...

 

[scifan]

Reading a little more, this sounds like Limp mode rather than misfiring like last time...

 

[ekaparis]

Sounds like a coilpack has gone bad... easy to diagnose and repair. keep us posted and good luck!

 

[scifan]

The challenge is that none of the codes are being saved... basically it does it's event... the CEL is flashing, loss of power, etc, etc... and then turn off, restart, and no code is registered...

Last week they thought the issue was the version of code flashed on the PCM/ECU (whichever it is)... then it did it again... without registering any code. it's back in the shop and they seem to be at a loss as to how to rule things out since it's intermittent and not generating a code. I'm half wondering if the PCM or ECU has a fault...

 

[OdyProspect]

The electronic boards are almost never the problem. The connections to them and to the parts are usually the culprit. Most ECUs sent to parts depots test out fine but are replaced because troubleshooting is tough. Before paying for a new ECU try and borrow one from a working van and see if the problem is still present.

I would buy a code reader and drive with it attached to grab the code. You'll need the reader now anyway since the 05 is out of warranty. A $100 code reader will save you lots of time and money. Plus you get to be a hero to your family and friends when they have a CEL/MIL. Code Reader, FSM and the internet and the dealer no longer has an information advantage over you.

 

[scifan]

The electronic boards are almost never the problem. The connections to them and to the parts are usually the culprit. Most ECUs sent to parts depots test out fine but are replaced because troubleshooting is tough. Before paying for a new ECU try and borrow one from a working van and see if the problem is still present.

I would buy a code reader and drive with it attached to grab the code. You'll need the reader now anyway since the 05 is out of warranty. A $100 code reader will save you lots of time and money. Plus you get to be a hero to your family and friends when they have a CEL/MIL. Code Reader, FSM and the internet and the dealer no longer has an information advantage over you.

Interesting part of this, is the Dealership I bought this from is covering this work and testing... so I haven't had any expense thus far (aside from purchasing the unit). I did buy an extended warrant (3/36) but as far as I know, we haven't used that yet. Sounds like the ECU is probably not the issue... I've been letting them work through the process...

Thinking through things today, I realized that out of ~ 13 days that I've driven the rig from a cold start, it's experienced what I believe to be Limp mode 4 times... (I'll have owned it 3 weeks as of tomorrow...)

For what it's worth, when it does manifest, it manifests within 2 miles of my house, and 3 of the 4 times have been after slowing to a stop to make a left turn... one time was while driving straight down the street...

 

[scifan]

The Honda dealer called for additional information... think there was an "Ah ha" moment... they're now going to focus on the cold to warm transition... closed vs open loop... I really hope it does it's mischief while they're watching... it'd be great to have that issue resolved.

 

[scifan]

Question - if your engine check engine light comes on flashing... I'm assuming that while it's flashing, there's likely diagnostic code that's being registered by the system.

IF I understand things right, that would be listed as a pending code for the next "trip"... and if it reoccurs it would leave the check engine light on...

The Honda dealership's telling me that in theory, such a code should be logged in the system history... even if it doesn't eventually leave the CEL on solid...

My van doesn't have ANYTHING in it's history...

Not sure what to think... or what to look at... the van's still at the dealership... they've spent ~ 4 days on it thus far test driving it when it's cold trying to get it to exhibit the same problem again... I expect that sometime next week they're going to come back with a "no trouble found" type of thing.... and based on experience, it'll freak out 2-3 days after we get it back...

Color me very frustrated.

 

[odymc]

same issue on 2005 with >100K miles. light comes on and stays on for days. engine runs a little bit more rough than normal. Light magically goes off. Engine a little smoother. Took into dealer during off cycle and they told me no codes were stored. Maybe I'll take it in when it's on.

 

[scifan]

Good news is I don't have to pay for this... bad news is that after spending over a week testing/trouble shooting this issue, they still haven't had it happen while they were testing/driving it.

The conditions are basically just when it's starting to get warm, and generally driving 35 or less... and 3 of the 4 times were after having stopped to turn left.

Guess I'll have to see if it happens again. The dealership I bought it from keeps insisting that it was water causing a misfire... I don't know... I know I like my Touring edition better than a Toyota Sienna LE... (which is what we've been driving the last week and a half)

And my rebuilt nav system isn't back yet either... so I have at least one more trip to the dealership sometime in my future... I suspect (based on what I've read here and elsewhere) that the rear mount is at it's failure point too... that's something easier to identify and take care of...

Next Friday's my first payment on this happy beast... can't say it's been the best start... but then again, I've had one issue or another with the last 2 vehicles I've bought too... *sigh*

 

[scifan]

So, it's throwing a P0302... it spent a week+ at the dealership getting test driven intermittently, and no errors... but my wife drove it to the produce coop the first morning after having it back and it "did it" again on the way home.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30244837/VID_20110709_082320.3gp
and
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/30244837/VID_20110709_083720.3gp

Noticed the EV light is flashing... wonder if that's because of the misfire?!

 

[scifan]

I figure I'll continue sharing my saga until someone tells me to stop...

Yesterday, the intermittent issue stopped being intermittent... at this point, they've replaced a failing coil and a spark plug, and when I checked were doing a fuel injector service on it... and were talking about a possible valve adjustment.

Waiting to hear what the situation is now... (and no, I'm not on the hook for the bill)

 

[scifan]

Perhaps this will fix all my van's woes...

Coil Pack #2 was apparently "burned out"... (and fully failed when they swapped it out.

They apparently discovered that the spark plug in cylinder 2 wasn't fully run in... and wasn't even finger tight... (anyone ran across this before? or is this BS?) - they replaced the spark plug... and I've asked that if they verify that they've checked that all of the plugs are run in properly....

They ran cleaner through my injector system... (sounds like I don't need to do Seafoam anytime soon now...)

Apparently it's running smooth and like it was new.

(the above work + the tow is being paid by the dealership I bought this van from...)

As would be expected with an ody over 50k miles, the rear engine mount's bad... My warranty's covering that minus the deductible which is being covered by the dealership... (honestly, I don't know - they might have put all of this work on the warranty... but they're covering any additional costs so zero out of pocket from our perspective for the work.)

Waiting for the call back that the replacement/rebuilt navi system's come back and can take it to get that installed... and then my odyssey will be like a new car again... well, except for the wind whistle... but that's not too difficult to deal with.

The first month of ownership hasn't left me feeling really good... at least I believe the rough running engine issue is likely solved... and I believe I'm seeing the light at the end of the tunnel for this issue.

(I really hate intermittent issues.)