[SimTech]

OK looking for a muzzler for my '15 EX and narrowed it down to the two listed in the title due to the "smart" capabilities. The only difference I see(except for price) are the Tuner II has a fused power line and an accelerometer. Now I like the fused idea just because of the nature of the fuse but is the accelerometer portion really needed, I understand what it's used for but if your are idling for and hour on a 95 degree day is it really necessary or are the "smarts" of the device override the muzzle and kick the cooling fans on to prevent overheat?

I'm curious of hearing from both owners of each device or people who have tried both, just getting opinions. Not really interested in re-hashing if this is a good idea to disable the VCM or not etc etc, just trying to make a choice between the two items. I've read through the forum and tried to absorb as much info as I could, so if you would't mind posting your opinion, it'd be much appreciated

 

[HANKS ODY]

I am using 4 yr old vcm tuner on 2019 exl, set @50.. seems to work fine, but I dont find any indicator on dash as to vcm on or off ? Anybody ?

 

[CroMath]

I'm not sure if you will find many people who have actually tried both - that would get pretty pricey. But I'll happily share my thoughts on the S-VCM we have in our Ody.

The external fuse thing is a bit of a red herring to me. Most commonly available blade-type fuses let through way too much current to prevent damage. The S-VCM claims to have 50mA overcurrent protection built into it. Now that's hard to verify from a consumer's point of view because we can't see it anywhere, but given that the claim is openly made in their website, I doubt it's a flat-out lie. Too easy to sue if turns out to be false, and all these guys are small-timers - there's no team of legal eagles on a fat retainer behind any of the common VCM disable device makers.

The accelerometer that the VCMTuner II has is surely a nice-to-have - no doubt. But on a day-to-day basis, it won't matter to the protection it offers compared to the S-VCM. Since motion is required for VCM to kick on (cylinders don't deactivate when you're stopped), if you're idling for an hour on a hot day like you described, the only thing VCMTuner II does is tell you the actual temperature sooner. S-VCM will still shut itself off when the temperature is high enough. The risk of overheating is the same for each.

We have had the S-VCM controller for close to a year now and it has performed reliably and consistently. The ECO light has never come on even once, and the unit itself is so small that it's practically invisible when you look at the engine. Only the small black power wire gives it away.

You won't go wrong with either device, if the truth be told.

*** Edit *** On reading the FAQ on the S-VCM website, it now says that the power wire has an inline fuse to allow for easy disconnection in addition to the built-in protection. I guess the maker must have added that later in his production process - my nearly one year old S-VCM controller doesn't have that. It also possible to have one made without the fuse or with an inline switch.

 

[egads]

The idle actual temp reporting of the VCMTuner II is used for diagnostics. Hondas call for an idle relearn procedure to be performed whenever the battery is disconnected (for instance) To do that with the VCMTuner II you don't have to take it off. It also makes it more compliant to regulators. The folks making it are trying to get CARB certification. This is important because many states follow California air quality standards.

 

[CroMath]

The idle actual temp reporting of the VCMTuner II is used for diagnostics. Hondas call for an idle relearn procedure to be performed whenever the battery is disconnected (for instance) To do that with the VCMTuner II you don't have to take it off. It also makes it more compliant to regulators. The folks making it are trying to get CARB certification. This is important because many states follow California air quality standards.

This is a good point - the pending CARB certification on the VCMTuner II could be a difference maker depending on where you live.

The S-VCM controller doesn't have to be removed for maintenance; it just needs its power wire disconnected from the battery. Or if you were to get the custom S-VCM with a switch wired in, you could just flick it off and be ready to go for the idle relearn.

 

[egads]

Another difference, $25.00

 

[SimTech]

I'm not sure if you will find many people who have actually tried both - that would get pretty pricey. But I'll happily share my thoughts on the S-VCM we have in our Ody.

The external fuse thing is a bit of a red herring to me. Most commonly available blade-type fuses let through way too much current to prevent damage. The S-VCM claims to have 50mA overcurrent protection built into it. Now that's hard to verify from a consumer's point of view because we can't see it anywhere, but given that the claim is openly made in their website, I doubt it's a flat-out lie. Too easy to sue if turns out to be false, and all these guys are small-timers - there's no team of legal eagles on a fat retainer behind any of the common VCM disable device makers.

The accelerometer that the VCMTuner II has is surely a nice-to-have - no doubt. But on a day-to-day basis, it won't matter to the protection it offers compared to the S-VCM. Since motion is required for VCM to kick on (cylinders don't deactivate when you're stopped), if you're idling for an hour on a hot day like you described, the only thing VCMTuner II does is tell you the actual temperature sooner. S-VCM will still shut itself off when the temperature is high enough. The risk of overheating is the same for each.

We have had the S-VCM controller for close to a year now and it has performed reliably and consistently. The ECO light has never come on even once, and the unit itself is so small that it's practically invisible when you look at the engine. Only the small black power wire gives it away.

You won't go wrong with either device, if the truth be told.

*** Edit *** On reading the FAQ on the S-VCM website, it now says that the power wire has an inline fuse to allow for easy disconnection in addition to the built-in protection. I guess the maker must have added that later in his production process - my nearly one year old S-VCM controller doesn't have that. It also possible to have one made without the fuse or with an inline switch.

Thanks to all who replied and to all who have given opinions in other threads....much appreciated!!

CroMath, I'm gonna have to go back to the S-VCM site and look for that in line fuse statement, thought I read it through thoroughly but may have missed that, some how. Could that have been for the Custom version?

 

[CroMath]

Thanks to all who replied and to all who have given opinions in other threads....much appreciated!!

CroMath, I'm gonna have to go back to the S-VCM site and look for that in line fuse statement, thought I read it through thoroughly but may have missed that, some how. Could that have been for the Custom version?

I don't think so - it sounds like it's an across-the-board addition. The inline fuse is referenced twice in the FAQ (that I could find) - once under "What is the extra wire for? Is it fused" and once again under "Do I need to remove the S-VCM before doing an idle relearn?"

This is a picture of my engine bay with the S-VCM installed. The controller module itself is hidden by the engine cover - only the black power wire passing in front of the throttle body gives it away.

 

[BertS]

I've been happy with VCMTuner II since I installed it 4 months ago. The ECO light hasn't come on once and I do like the added functionality over the S-VCM.

At the time I bought the VCMTuner II the S-VCM was out of stock and I felt the ~$17 price premium for the VCMTuner II was worth it (Included shipping costs and the difference between standard USPS shipping inside the US vs. least expensive option from Canada to US for S-VCM).

I started a thread with more details about my experience with VCM Tuner II: https://www.odyclub.com/forums/52-2005-2010-odyssey/351897-vcmtuner-ii.html

Hope it helps.

 

[John Clark]

I'm also using the VCMTunerII. Great device. The ability to do the idle relearn and other diagnostics without removing it is invaluable. You can get stuck in a situation where you need to do the idle relearn, but have to remove the Muzzler device. You remove it, do your idle relearn but then during reinstallation you set a check engine light. You now clear the check engine light and need to do another idle relearn (in some cases with some scan tools.) I've had this happen.

I wouldn't consider an inline fuse a reason to buy or not to buy one. You can add an inline fuse yourself for very little cost. The accelerometer in the VCMTunerII, allowing for the normal temp to be sent to the computer during prolonged idle is well worth it.

 

[SimTech]

I don't think so - it sounds like it's an across-the-board addition. The inline fuse is referenced twice in the FAQ (that I could find) - once under "What is the extra wire for? Is it fused" and once again under "Do I need to remove the S-VCM before doing an idle relearn?"

This is a picture of my engine bay with the S-VCM installed. The controller module itself is hidden by the engine cover - only the black power wire passing in front of the throttle body gives it away.

Huh, once again, hit the nail on the head.....maybe I should do less scanning and more reading before I post such questions......Thanks!:duh:

 

[SimTech]

I'm also using the VCMTunerII. Great device. The ability to do the idle relearn and other diagnostics without removing it is invaluable. You can get stuck in a situation where you need to do the idle relearn, but have to remove the Muzzler device. You remove it, do your idle relearn but then during reinstallation you set a check engine light. You now clear the check engine light and need to do another idle relearn (in some cases with some scan tools.) I've had this happen.

I wouldn't consider an inline fuse a reason to buy or not to buy one. You can add an inline fuse yourself for very little cost. The accelerometer in the VCMTunerII, allowing for the normal temp to be sent to the computer during prolonged idle is well worth it.

Here's my questions though, 1)why have the accellerometer if the logic of the box will switch over the temp when it rises to a certain point?
2) how long would you idle to get into an over temp situation?
Given this engine doesn't have an overheat history and I have sat in traffic on summer days idling with non-honda products never had an issue.

I too liked the idea of the accellerometer but the more I thought about it, the more it seemed more of a non-item.....JMO and curious your view.

 

[CroMath]

Here's my questions though, 1)why have the accellerometer if the logic of the box will switch over the temp when it rises to a certain point?
2) how long would you idle to get into an over temp situation?
Given this engine doesn't have an overheat history and I have sat in traffic on summer days idling with non-honda products never had an issue.

I too liked the idea of the accellerometer but the more I thought about it, the more it seemed more of a non-item.....JMO and curious your view.

Having the accelerometer means that the device can independently tell when the van wasn't moving, which then allows for programming a set interval of stillness to shut itself off and let the actual temperature through. It's far faster and more predictable than trying to overheat the van to kick off the temperature masking - all you really need is regular warmed up, not actually hot. But pulling an inline fuse is pretty easy too. Not "just sit there and don't touch anything" easy, but still easy.

I've got it the toughest - I actually have to remove a single nut to disconnect the power wire. And then put it back! Even on my very best day, that will take me longer than the four seconds it takes to pull a fuse and then replace it.

 

[AndrewS816]

This is a good point - the pending CARB certification on the VCMTuner II could be a difference maker depending on where you live.

The S-VCM controller doesn't have to be removed for maintenance; it just needs its power wire disconnected from the battery. Or if you were to get the custom S-VCM with a switch wired in, you could just flick it off and be ready to go for the idle relearn.

So for a rookie to understand and clarify this, if you disconnect the muzzle device (S-VCM or VCM Tuner) you HAVE to do the idle relearn process for the Odyssey to function properly? Or you have to do this so it doesn't start throwing errors (lighting up the dashboard, etc.)?

The idle relearn seems like a lengthy process (if I'm understanding it correctly). 5 minutes at 3k rpm, then idle for 5 more min, the radiator fans need to turn on and off, etc. So this isn't as easy as just flipping a switch from Muzzle to VCM on in other words.

Thanks!

 

[CroMath]

So for a rookie to understand and clarify this, if you disconnect the muzzle device (S-VCM or VCM Tuner) you HAVE to do the idle relearn process for the Odyssey to function properly? Or you have to do this so it doesn't start throwing errors (lighting up the dashboard, etc.)?

The idle relearn seems like a lengthy process (if I'm understanding it correctly). 5 minutes at 3k rpm, then idle for 5 more min, the radiator fans need to turn on and off, etc. So this isn't as easy as just flipping a switch from Muzzle to VCM on in other words.

Thanks!

No no - you've got it backwards. You have to disconnect the muzzle device for the idle relearn to happen. The idle relearn process is part of a few different repair/maintenance procedures like throttle body cleaning, coolant replacement and some others - it's not caused by connecting or disconnecting a VCM disable device and it's not something that has to be done frequently (or at least you'd hope not).

One of the prerequisites of this idle relearn process is for the engine to be fully warmed up. So as long as a VCM disable device is active and functioning, the idle relearn can't happen because the PCM never gets a high enough temperature reading to know it's OK to start the process. So when an idle relearn is part of the service that is going to be done to your van, the VCM disable device needs to be disconnected or turned off, one way or another. The VCMTuner II can turn itself off automatically because it can tell when the van has been stationary for more than two minutes, which its programming interprets as a sign that the van is being worked on. The S-VCM controller cannot turn itself off - it requires someone to actually either pull out the inline fuse (which they now seem to come with) or flick the switch (if equipped) or undo the connection to the battery terminal. But with either of them (S-VCM or VCMTuner II), the process of shutting off the disable device shouldn't cause errors.

 

[AndrewS816]

So I shut off either Muzzle, no errors get thrown. I to take it in for service, remove the Muzzle first, let them do their thing and then re-attach/turn back on and nothing else has had to happen in the meantime?

Scenario, we're going long cross country and want the better gas mileage; disconnect the muzzle, do the idle relearn and drive? Or do you have to do the idle relearn?

Or just don't do this at all, take the few MPG hit, leave the Muzzle on forever and let the Odyssey live longer and perform better?

THANK you for your patience and education on all this!

 

[CroMath]

So I shut off either Muzzle, no errors get thrown. I to take it in for service, remove the Muzzle first, let them do their thing and then re-attach/turn back on and nothing else has had to happen in the meantime?

Yup - that's about it. About the only time I think you should flat-out remove it is if you are taking your van in to a dealership for warranty work on the engine. It's just easier to not give them an excuse to ask awkward questions.

Scenario, we're going long cross country and want the better gas mileage; disconnect the muzzle, do the idle relearn and drive? Or do you have to do the idle relearn?

No idle relearn is necessary here.

Or just don't do this at all, take the few MPG hit, leave the Muzzle on forever and let the Odyssey live longer and perform better?

In my opinion, this would be the best idea. Whether you'd actually lose any mileage is not a sure thing. We didn't on ours - the mileage stayed pretty much the same pre and post muzzling. The downsides to muzzling could be a bit variable, but the upsides are pretty much guaranteed.

THANK you for your patience and education on all this!

That's what we do here - everyone is here to learn and share.

 

[BertS]

One thing I like about the VCMTuner II is when I take it in to the shop, I don't have to remember to tell them I have it, or remember to manually disable it myself. If they have to do a procedure requiring the actual temperature, such as idle relearn, they will be successful since the VCMTuner II will automatically turn itself off and the correct temperature is seen by the computer.

It also has an additional green wire which when grounded will re-enable VCM or can be touched to ground a number of times over a period of time to turn on optional features. This could easily be wired through a switch to make things easier. So far I haven't done anything with this wire as I will keep VCM disabled all the time, and haven't yet gotten around to turning on any optional features.

 

[John Clark]

One thing I like about the VCMTuner II is when I take it in to the shop, I don't have to remember to tell them I have it, or remember to manually disable it myself. If they have to do a procedure requiring the actual temperature, such as idle relearn, they will be successful since the VCMTuner II will automatically turn itself off and the correct temperature is seen by the computer.

It also has an additional green wire which when grounded will re-enable VCM or can be touched to ground a number of times over a period of time to turn on optional features. This could easily be wired through a switch to make things easier. So far I haven't done anything with this wire as I will keep VCM disabled all the time, and haven't yet gotten around to turning on any optional features.

I'm not using the optional functions either. It's a great little device, though.

 

[egads]

Another thing to keep in mind, unless you drive kinda slow, the VCM is not going to kick in with it removed on a long cross country trip. Among the folks around here who have not had any VCM issues are folks who do most of their driving on the interstate going 80MPH.

Also, I seem to remember you can get a check engine light if you connect one of these devices on a warm engine. I'm not clear about how one could use a switch on one of these units without setting one. Are the electronics on them more sophisticated than the resister ones?