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I have a 2006 Honda Odyssey with 119000 miles. Had a local shop do timing belt and water pump etc. back in July. Serpentine Belt Tensioner pulley just failed (bearing popped out) Belt shredded but did not break right away. Made belt jump as piece of belt wound behind crank pulley. Shop is telling me valves are trashed and not sure what else is recommending a new motor for $3800. Is this something that should have been prevented by work done in July or am I just unlucky as the shop owner seems to suggest?
 

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Uhm, hang on a second. You're saying that the serpentine belt broke, wrapped around the crank pulley, and that caused the timing belt to jump some teeth? Because of that some valves are bent and you need a new motor? Although I guess it's possible, that sounds like a stretch.

The serpentine belt tensioner is not normally replaced during a timing belt replacement. I'm still on my original for example. There are reports of the serpentine tensioner bolt breaking, knocking the belt off, and needing replacement but it's not something that can be prevented as far as I know.

Did the serpentine belt break while driving on the highway or around town? Did you drive it to the shop? Give us some details.
 

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Jccc, some basics. First, is the motor still running or not? The reason I ask is that, well, something seems a little fishy here. I'm with JCsHonda on this one...the scenario is not impossible, but man, it sure is an unlikely chain of events.

Even with bent valves, Honda motors are among the few interference engines that are not prone to cracking piston skirts after a timing belt goes awry. Hence, "new" cylinder heads (from a salvage yard) would be in order if this whole deal truly happened, and a lot easier to do than an entire engine replacement.

OF
 

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My wife was driving so don't have a lot of details. I think she had just rounded a corner was probably accelerating to no more than 40MPH. Did not get more than 2 blocks. She said she was pushing accelerator but nothing was happening. If was not drivable. It was towed.
 

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You mean it won't even make one crankshaft revolution? As in, starter engages, but no complete engine rotation? Sir, that is not a good sign. I hope the bottom end is in decent enough shape to allow a simple swap of the cylinder heads. That would be a lot less expensive.

This is a first; I've never heard of a broken serpentine belt binding up between the harmonic balancer pulley and the timing belt crank gear and causing this mess...but it happened. Almost like the planets aligning and causing earthquakes and flooding in California.

OF
 

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Here is a picture of the damage. Shop is telling me new motor with half as many miles will cost pretty much the same as trying to repair it. Almost $4000. Options?
 

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well, I am guessing you aren't going to try to DIY this - you could save some $ by swapping out the heads, but if you are paying a shop to do it, it's probably a lot of labor hours... I haven't really priced getting an engine replaced locally, but looking on eBay, $4k installed isn't too horrible assuming you get a good warranty on the motor.
 

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This has been described a few times here. Member desmo888, posted the Timing Belt DIY for us below.

http://www.odyclub.com/forums/52-2005-2010-odyssey/141057-gen-3-timing-belt-write-up-here.html

In a subsequent thread, he was replacing the serpentine belt but did not make sure the SB wraps around the Crank Pulley grooves properly.
He cranked engine, SB jumped and went behind the Crank Pulley and destroyed the TB compartment. Different topic but same idea.

Honda sells Cylinder Heads complete, ready for installation. This is a much better option than replacing the valves and tyry to mill the head.

Use Majestic Honda website for PN.
Majestic Honda - The Internet's #1 Honda Automotive Parts Store

For example 2006 Ody EX:

- 12100-RDJ-305 CYLINDER HEAD ASSY., FR. ---> $461.98
- 12300-RGL-305 CYLINDER HEAD ASSY., RR. ---> $788.89

Roughly 10h of labor. A private Honda mechanic should not charge more than 10h for this job, or about $1000 labor.

For the SB, replace everything: tensioner, rollers x2, and of course new SB.

If you DIY, then it will cost much less.

Anyway, this is a good example of poor economy by the shop. I don't care what people say but TB and SB rollers have roughly the same lifespan. After 110K, it is a guess. So, whenever I replace a TB and rollers, I also replace the SB and ALL of its rollers, because the consequence of something going wrong in the SB area is severe.
 

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...Is this something that should have been prevented by work done in July or am I just unlucky as the shop owner seems to suggest?
Yes, if the shop pre-emptively replaced the SB and its rollers (tensioner and idler), you will not be dealing with this issue.
 

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Jccc, one last item. If you go with the cylinder head replacements (which I would steer towards), before doing this you (or your mechanic) much check from the bottom end of the engine. I know the focus is usually the top end (heads), but bear with me.

Nearly every timing belt malfunction I've heard of (or seen the results directly) involving an interference engine (like the Odyssey's) occurring at any sort of decent engine RPM did cause valve damage. Cylinder head removal / replacement is actually not too difficult on these engines.

The big problem that occurs with this miserable situation is when a piston strikes an extended valve and cocks in the cylinder bore, thus resulting in a fractured piston skirt. Yes, I've seen this happen. It's possible more than one piston is damaged. One must remove the oil pan, and then the oil scavenge tray under the crankshaft to gain visual access. Once you're sure the pistons are satisfactory from this bottom end inspection, then it's time to proceed to the top end and check for damage there.

I've seen piston tops with significant-appearing gouging by an extended valve where the owner simply did nothing to it after replacing or repairing the cylinder head, the rationale being that machining out the damage would require the added expense of removing the piston and re-balancing (all valid). The motor still ran fine after a new head was fitted, and this with the pistons with simple crown damage (NOT a fractured skirt) left as is.

Keep us posted.

OF
 

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Wow. So, how did the SB get into the TB compartment? It damaged the TB cover?
 

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Serpentine Belt Tensioner pulley just failed (bearing popped out)....
Yes, if the shop pre-emptively replaced the SB and its rollers (tensioner and idler), you will not be dealing with this issue.
Well, we can't say that is 100% true cnn. If you remember, there was an outbreak of NEW serpentine belt tensioner bolts that were breaking! Interestingly, none reported TB damage.

http://www.odyclub.com/forums/52-2005-2010-odyssey/152628-2005-odyssey-belt-tensioner-bolt-keeps-breaking-off.html

Did you ever find a fix for this issue? I am having the exact same issue. I've replaced the tensioner three times and the belt twice. Broke again today, ever two weeks.

Did you two ever find the problem or fix? I am having the same exact problem. It already broke twice and I am on my third bolt second tensioner.

Tensioner bolt on my 05 just sheared off two weeks after having the timing belt replaced.

Interesting, So the root cause of this is defective bolt, is that correct?

I also am on my 2nd broken bolt following a timing belt change (self-performed)....
Gotta admit, this does seem like a freak occurrence.

This is a first; I've never heard of a broken serpentine belt binding up between the harmonic balancer pulley and the timing belt crank gear and causing this mess...but it happened. Almost like the planets aligning and causing earthquakes and flooding in California.
 

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JCsHonda,

1. When the roller bolt breaks (from over-torquing by mechanics), the SB snaps instantly and flies off.
Chances are the TB is fine.

2. However, when the roller bearing goes bad, the roller wobbles around, giving the SB the opportunity to walk off the crank pulley, sometimes it flies off and sometimes it sneaks behind the crank pulley ---> disaster!

Below is the thread that described a seemingly minor mis-alignment of the SB turned into disaster:

http://www.odyclub.com/forums/52-2005-2010-odyssey/157718-2005-serpentine-belt-chirp-h3ll-long.html


I put it on a lift to get a different view and check pulley alignment – found nothing. The tensioner was bouncing a bit so I replaced it despite the “old” one having the proper tension. No dice.
So…only one rotating component left – the power steering pump. It had some noise anyway. I got one from Advance Auto. When I installed it I reinstalled the serp belt. I checked the belt for proper installation and saw that the edge of the belt was off the outside of the crank pulley a little. I figured it would be no big deal and would work its way on after a few rotations. I was wrong.
I fired up the engine and almost immediately heard an awful slapping sound. I shut it down and found that the last rib of the belt had separated. The rib hung on at a few points and they were slapping around. I clipped off the ones I could get to. Then I figured I would back the van out to clean the mess on the floor from changing the pump. Then I would pull it in and put a new belt on (the 4th one during this saga).
I started up the van and put it in reverse. All of a sudden the slapping started again and before I could do anything the engine shut off abruptly. I checked a bunch of stuff and could not figure it out! I was tired of it by now and had it towed to a friend’s garage. He called the next day and said there was NO compression in any cylinder! The timing had jumped but WHY? The timing belt was still tight!
I researched and decided to just replace the engine. I found a 59k mile engine for $850 shipped. The garage replaced it for $1200 complete with alignment(dropped subframe), fluids and all. After the engine was pulled I went to the garage to see if we could figure out what happened. Nothing. We could find nothing. That was until we pulled the crank pulley – holy smokes!
The rib of the serpentine belt that separated had wrapped around the base on the INSIDE of the crank pulley and then rode up under the timing cover and onto the crank gear LIFTING THE TIMING BELT OFF THE GEAR!!!! Son of a gun!
 

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However, when the roller bearing goes bad, the roller wobbles around, giving the SB the opportunity to walk off the crank pulley, sometimes it flies off and sometimes it sneaks behind the crank pulley ---> disaster!
Thanks, I don't recall seeing that thread. Good info and enough to get me thinking about replacing my SB tensioner assembly. At around $120 it's cheap insurance!
 

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Thanks, I don't recall seeing that thread. Good info and enough to get me thinking about replacing my SB tensioner assembly. At around $120 it's cheap insurance!
Regardless of the vehicle make/model, I think every time a TB is done at let's say 100K-110K time frame, it is also a good time to address the SB system too.

This means:
- New SB: Mitsuboshi belt about $28 at autohausaz.com
- Idler + tensioner: it depends on mechanical vs hydraulic tensioner systems.

PS: For those reading this thread, search forum for broken bolt issues!!! The idea is the torque the bolts properly. For some reasons, these Honda bolts quality seem to a problem lately. When in doubt, re-use the factory bolt, at least it seems better than the new bolt. I may be wrong though.
 
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