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Discussion Starter #1
There is a post in other Odyssey site regarding 2 years old fingers got caught in the sliding door. Luckily her fingers are okay.

Yes, I agree the best thing to do in this case is to be very careful and keep an eye on minor all the time when they are around any van with sliding doors.

I know every vans are under-design the sliding safety a little bit. For the automatic sliding doors need special design to come up with sensor to prevent from closing while hand or finger is in the way. The sliding doors also need force to close and lock itself. They can't really make it close too soft; otherwise, it wouldn't close and lock properly. I want to suggest to Honda to have recognition sensor on the door; so, it will know there is a finger there. If there is a finger or flesh infront of the door, it will stop or retrack back. If there is nothing in its way, go ahead close it at the normal motion and normal force. It will need a special software to control the sensor. By the way I work with a lot high tech equipment and safety is our first priority. I seen and work with all kind of safety magenism and software on variaty of different equipment. Hopefully, Honda read this messages and find the right engineer to figure out. I'm pretty sure they can design it easily. If they contact me, I probably can show them how some of the sensor can work with sliding door. We need to remind Honda
"Customer Safety Come First." or any other car manufacturing. Coleman.
 

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Honda already has a device that will reverse the doors if they detect an obstruction, however, this will not work during the locking phase-the owners manual explains that. People should try reading them.
How would this be any worse than if the mother slammed a manually operated door shut? What kind of interlock would you recommend for manually operated doors?

The problem was that the mother was not watching the kid. I don't think we can afford foolproof vehicles because they seem to be breeding fools that foil any attempts we may make to protect them (and others) from their actions.

Regards
Al
 

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Not to start a flame war or anything, but albaby didn't read the other post carefully (or at all). It had nothing to do w/ not reading the manual.

The little girl was peering in the side middle window(hands cupped around around her eyes, elbows facing outward) when the little boy pulled on the sliding door handle which made it open. The door slid over the little girl's elbow and was in the process of pinning her underneath (no 'stop' sensor when opening) when the mom saw what was happening and (very quick thinking!) stopped the door opening with the remote and started it going the opposite direction.

I could easily see this happening to any kid even if you're standing right there (like the guys..including me..who have opened the door over the open gas lid). Thanks to her sharing the info; I'll now be more aware when kids are playing around my van--remember many people are buying these as 'mini-buses' to haul kids around in. If her post prevents even one accident, it was worth being posted.

Your comment about 'breeding fools' is a bit inflamatory when the mother was obviously right there to prevent further harm.

[This message has been edited by nyvram (edited 07-30-2001).]

[This message has been edited by nyvram (edited 07-30-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter #4
If you read the messages in Yahoo Forum, you'll find out. The sliding door will only stop or retract at a certain strength or force, but my point is the little girl fingers is not strong enough for the door to retract. If there is a motion sensor or any recognition sensor use on the sliding door, it will definately recognite the little fingers and the door will stop or retract itself. I work on a lot of safety sensors in high tech manufacturing. Those sensors are not that expensive compare to any type of accident. All Honda need is the right engineer and the right software for it. Hopefully they'll look into it...!
 

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IMHO Power sliding is safer than manual sliding door.

Last Sunday, my friend's 9 years old daughter tried to close manudal sliding door on their Toyota Sienna and unfortunately his 4 years old son's finger was there. Manual door slided too fast (due to the way she slided it). People were standing right there but couldn't stop sliding door. If their Sienna had power sliding door, their son's finger won't hurt as bad.

Maybe car manufacturers should design their power sliding door like elevator door to put another moving piece inside the door frame. Probably we have to pay more for Power slding door EX and get worse MPG due to the extra safety power slide door. Or they could put IR sensor all the way along power sliding door so any finger or material break the sensor the door will stop or won't move at all, that
definately will add more to the cost of the car.
How about make power sliding door an option and user can disable to use as manual sliding door?

Car manufacturers could design a bullet proof power sliding door, the queation is will consumer willing to pay an arm and leg for "safer" power slideing door?

A few years back when I tried to close my volvo's driver side door, I forgot to get my finger out of the way. Bang, I ended with bruised finger and lost my finger nail. All the cars come with same style driver side door. Is driver side door unsafe? Do they need to put sensor on all the door frame? mmmm?



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'01 GG EX
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leather steerling wheel cover, Pioneer 1655 speakers,
Lojack

[This message has been edited by bjk2001 (edited 07-30-2001).]
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by nyvram:
Not to start a flame war or anything, but albaby didn't read the other post carefully (or at all). It had nothing to do w/ not reading the manual.

Your comment about 'breeding fools' is a bit inflamatory when the mother was obviously right there to prevent further harm.

[This message has been edited by nyvram (edited 07-30-2001).]

[This message has been edited by nyvram (edited 07-30-2001).]
</font>
Nyvram-you are right-I didn't read the post, but if you found the "breeding fools" comment inflammatory, I'm sorry, because it did not refer to the mother, but to people that we have to protect ourselves from, and from their own self. If we make it mandatory to install interlocks and sensors etc. to protect from every possibile hazard, then either we won'r be able to afford the vehicle or it will never run.
There is a switch that disables the doors auto opening. It's right above the two switches on the dash. Do you suppose the mother now turns that to "off"?

There is a simple solution-deactivate the auto doors ot get an LX. I still don't see how this would be any different if Biff had slung a manual door open.

It's because of people like these that we have warnings like "Do not use this hair dryer in the shower" and lawnmowers with "deadman bails" to prevent idiots from trying to clean out the chutes with the blades turning or using them as hedge trimmers. Every possibile hazard does not require a preventative measure. There should be some common sense involved. Using the two examples I mentioned-why are we trying to save some of these people. Now everybody has to restart their mower everytime they empty the grass catcher. The idiots they are trying to save from hurting themselves will tie the bail to the handle and still try to use it as a hedge trimmer.

Al


[This message has been edited by albaby (edited 07-30-2001).]
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by albaby:
lawnmowers with "deadman bails" to prevent idiots from trying to clean out the chutes with the blades turning or using them as hedge trimmers.</font>

..there's something wrong w/ using your lawnmower as a hedge-trimmer???


Point taken Al and I just realized that there are actually 2 different situations that happened; one was posted on *another forum topic* here (the elbow) and the other apparently happened on yahoo or edmunds (the fingers). They just have been brought up for discussion at the same time so its a bit confusing.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Albaby, I don't try to be smart....but safety should be the priority for all auto makers. It doesn't matter how minor the danger are...! If we know we can prevent it, why shouldn't we do so....! As you know accident can happen anywhere at any time with no warning. For example, people know there is a sidewalk curb; they still trip over it once in a while. I'll don't mind pay a little extra for safer Odyssey. I hope you get the point.....I'm pretty sure it is not that expensive to produce a god damn safe device for any doors.....! I can't believe they keep said it is too expensive to produce......they want to make billions instead of millions profit.....that is why they jack up the price so high on everything they add to the car...!
 

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We can sum this all up as I imagine one of Kelsen's tag lines might say:

"Make it idiot-proof and the world will produce a bigger idiot."
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by sdp:
We can sum this all up as I imagine one of Kelsen's tag lines might say:

"Make it idiot-proof and the world will produce a bigger idiot."
</font>
...of which we see evidence all around us all the time. And it's getting worse.



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Discussion Starter #11
Alb, Sdp, Cko; I wish all the perfect guy the very best of luck. I hope all the perfect guy never have an accident in their life. Luckily, you guy don't have infant and kid as your passenger; otherwise, you guy can call yourself the world biggest idiot one of these day. You guy are not smart enough to think about the overall picture of public safety may associate with the van. Or better yet buy the car from the 60's, which doesn't have much safety feature or not much additive to the vehicle. Today vehicle may not suitable for you guy due to the fact that it has too much safety, power, or additive factors in it. I don't mind being call an idiot if I can save somebody kid finger or hand from being snap by the door.
 

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Coleman, I have raised 6 children and have 8 grandchildren. I have maimed none of them. I realize that they don't know what dangers lurk out there and watch out for them. I don't expect society to protect them. That was my job, and is my childrens job.
I watched a woman jump out of her running van with 3 unsecured kids aboard, to run into a convenience store to buy some cigarettes. What is wrong with that? Well, the van was left running, which would have made it a target for a carjacker. Biff could have strangled Skippy in the power windows. They may have been able to put it in gear if they seen how mommy did it. ( of course in the resultant lawsuit they would have claimed the interlock failed). Then she lit a cigarette in the van. (Probably sue the cigarette manufacturer if the kids have respiratory problems).What safety devices would have prevented all these items?

Why not have sensors to prevent closing the rear vent windows if someone is nearby? What if the little girl had her fingers in the window and mom closed them and drove off, dragging her down the street? The lists of real, possible and imagined hazards is endless.

I see passengers with their feet on the dash. Great-if they get in a wreck and the airbag goes off, It will probably throw their legs over their shoulder and assist them in kissing their a** goodbye, and possibly break their back in the process. Do we put a sensor to disable the bag if it detects feet on it? Should we put a big sticker on the dash warning them of the hazard? Maybe design the dash with the express purpose of making it uninviting as a foot rest?
I read an article where some girl made a shake in a blender.She put the jar back on the blender. Baby brother stuck his hand in the blender to scoop up some of the shake and managed to start it. Result-missing finger parts. What could have been done to prevent this? Make it require pushing two buttons to run the blender? Wouldn't that be discriminating against handicapped people? Unplugging the blender after using it would have been an idea. Rinsing the jar and putting it in the sink or dishwasher would have been another. Paying attention to baby brother pushing the chair across the floor is another possibility. I agree that we should make things safe-but as safe as practically possible. The rest is up to you

The only way to make some things as safe as possible from some people is to not make them at all.
Regards
AL

[This message has been edited by albaby (edited 07-31-2001).]
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by albaby:

...
The only way to make some things as safe as possible from some people is to not make them at all.
Regards
AL

[This message has been edited by albaby (edited 07-31-2001).][/B]</font>
Al,

You mean people?



You forgot railroad crossings, people riding in the back of pick-ups, watching Barney with your kids, etc. etc.
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cmt4:
Al,

You mean people?



You forgot railroad crossings, people riding in the back of pick-ups, watching Barney with your kids, etc. etc.
</font>

LOL-you got it right! Accidents cause people!!! Or is it the other way around? Or maybe both.

Al
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Coleman_lot:
Alb, Sdp, Cko; I wish all the perfect guy the very best of luck.
<snip>
</font>
Although I don't know why you named Alb, Sdp and Cko, I want to thank you for wishing me the very best of luck. Perhaps it would be a bit obtuse of me to point out that I don't NEED luck, so I won't...

RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen.
I've got a mind like a.. a.. what's that thing called?

[This message has been edited by Kelsen (edited 08-01-2001).]
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kelsen:
Although I don't know why you named Alb, Sdp and Cko</font>



In an tangentially (in bizarro world) related way I thought I'd add we actually named our NAVI computer "C-Ko" after the obscure?) "Project A-Ko" anime movies. (It sort of sounds like her in an odd sort of way)
 

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Power doors do have at least one safety-related advantage. If they do injure you, you can always sue the company. For those of us who have used manual sliding and regular doors for years, we have only ourselves to blame for injuries...
 

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I don't have much to add to this, but I am enjoying the way this thread has proceeded - a healthy difference of opinion. I'd like to lend my support to Albaby with my agreement that people need to use a little common sense and teach their children to use their heads. In today's society people have so much tendancy to want to blame others or expect others to look after them. This attitude just doesn't work.

Erik
 

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Great thread guys-hopefully we can avoid flaming and hurt feelings

My .02 cents:
The world is a dangerous place, especially for kids. As a parent, I try to teach my kids how to avoid potentially dangerous situations, how to be safe etc. as I'm sure all of you do as well. I know, however, that accidents still will happen in spite of my precautions-that is an unavoidable part of living I guess.
What it comes down to is "acceptable risk" IMO. What is being over-protective to one parent is simply using good judgement to another. We all won't agree on where that line should be drawn, but eliminating obvious hazards seems like a good starting point. I tend to agree with albaby though, that you can't fool-proof the world. Most sports and leisure activities would be the first to go (inherently dangerous!) and the speed limit could be lowered to 15 m.p.h. (eliminating virtually all accidents). A law could be passed that all drivers wear full face helmuts and Nomex driving suits (think of the lives that would be spared).
The ridiculous examples of safety overkill are numerous, but that does not mean that there aren't still known hazards that could be easily remedied.
Enough babbling for now...


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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Coleman_lot:
Alb, Sdp, Cko; I wish all the perfect guy the very best of luck. I hope all the perfect guy never have an accident in their life. Luckily, you guy don't have infant and kid as your passenger; otherwise, you guy can call yourself the world biggest idiot one of these day..(stuff removed till later)..Or better yet buy the car from the 60's, which doesn't have much safety feature or not much additive to the vehicle. I don't mind being call an idiot if I can save somebody kid finger or hand from being snap by the door.</font>
I must defend my family's honor!


Whoa, easy there, Coleman, your trigger is a little touchy. First off, in no way did any of us imply that we were perfect or that you were an idiot, or that safety was not a huge consideration for us. We all bought an Odyssey because of its safety ratings, among other things.

However, as Albaby pointed out so vividly, and eslayter succintly put it, you have to draw the line somewhere and use common sense and parenting skills. And for that reason I totally disagree with your earlier post that car manufacturers should eliminate even the most minor dangers. Simple - and in your quest for perfect safety - disable the starter and weld the doors, hood, and trunk shut. But not so practical.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">You guy are not smart enough to think about the overall picture of public safety may associate with the van. Today vehicle may not suitable for you guy due to the fact that it has too much safety, power, or additive factors in it.</font>
Having a bad day? I don't know why some people think others who disagree with them are "not as smart". Maybe you're not smart enough to realize that while your goals are admirable, they are completely unrealistic. You seem to forget that there is some line where cost vs. benefit of every safety feature is factored into the decision to include it. As you pointed out (and I do like your door sensor idea), the technology exists, but a slew of decisions within the company go into whether consumers will ever see them. Accidents will always happen and car engineers should still try to mitigate the biggest and most common dangers. And the sliding doors would be the first on my list. But you can't, and can't afford to, put a sensor in every possible danger location. And don't come back with you can't put a cost on safety - all of the car companies do. No one would be able to afford the world's safest vehicle.

I don't expect you to agree with a word I've said here, but at least try to be civil and realize there are other points of view than your own, just as valid. Your ideals and your point is well taken, and I hope Honda does something about the doors in the future, but your accusorial and smarter-than-thou tone aren't necessary. Please be respective of others' differing opinions.
 
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