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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Yep. I have no complaint for the WM guy. I thought it was just funny that he substituted engine oil for ATF, but then I don't think he's a member of an automotive forum.

As for the mechanic, I have no doubt he will work with me. I have known him personally for 20 years+. He is the one all the taxis go for maintenance.

I will update after doing the 3x drain-fill.
 

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Maybe he confused Maxlife Oil with Maxlife ATF. Valvoline uses the same signature red container for both. Only half kidding.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
That would be bad right :). I was just beside him and the fluid was clear red. It's not Maxlife though.
 

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That would be bad right :). I was just beside him and the fluid was clear red. It's not Maxlife though.
That would indeed be bad (using engine oil in the transmission).

However, all engine oil is gold while all ATF is red. So whatever brand he used, at least it was ATF.
 

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Have we ever found out what the trusted mechanic actually used? Since it did that to your transmission, it would be good for all of us in this forum to know.
 

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I had my ATF changed back in March by local mechanic and he corrected me when I asked for a "flush" service. Said drain and fill is good enough as it wasn't dirty at all. Glad he knows his stuff. I asked about OEM fluid and he said he uses equivalent. No brand given. So far it's been good after 6000km. Think I'll try the single drain and fill myself next time with the maxlife since it is recommended here so often.
 

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How does the ATF look on the dipstick? Clear, not burnt smelling etc? Is it at the Full mark or even on the dipstick? A super low fluid level will cause immediate slipping, similar to what you are experiencing.
Something very strange about it happening just after a fluid drain and fill OR, was it 3-4 drain and fills?
I'm losing track.
Please post back what ATF your mechanic installed and what he did. (Single drain and fill, Multiple, etc.)
To me it sounds exactly how a low ATF level would react.
Buffalo4
 

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Given that it was running perfectly coming into service and ran like crap coming out of service (and that the old fluid look just like new coming out), I don't think it's a pressure switch problem but more of the fluid problem.

Thank you odyfamily.

I also ordered Lubeguard red to try out.
Please change the ATF before you add Lubegard Red or anything else.
What is the fluid level on the dipstick? Color, smell?
Drive it as little as possible until you change that ATF fluid (3-4) drain and fills with a little driving time in between each.
If all then is changed with no big positive results, you have other problems. Could a switch have become disconnected?
Buffalo4
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
The ATF looks good on the stick, good level checked while hot.
It is a single drain-fill
He changed ATF for me before (I let him change it on Honda schedule for documentation, I change the ATF myself for every A1 as a "silent" service just for my piece of mind). Everything was OK the last time using the same fluid as this time.

One thing I didn't mention was that during the fill, he spilled some outside and made a little mess so he sprayed some cleaner and water to clean the front of the engine. I do see some fluid remain on the electrical connectors. I don't know if this could cause problem. I was more worried about getting the VCMMuzzle2 connector wet because I'm not sure if it is made to the same standard as the rest of the connectors. I think new engine can take a little water hosing without problem but I never feel comfortable doing that myself.
 

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I regularly hose down my engine bay at the car wash. My S-VCM controller (and VCMuzzler II before it) has been soaking wet countless times already and it hasn't caused any problems, though I admit I have never intentionally sprayed directly at them trying to clean something off them.

The connectors and connections on those two particular devices are OEM quality or higher. Good parts plus good assembly is why the Big 4 of VCM disable devices are the S-VCM controller, VCMTuner II, MaxMuzzler and VCMuzzler II. But I digress.

It's possible that something (either water or spilled ATF) has gotten past the connector's waterproofing if the water was sprayed directly at the connector. It might be worth investigating and maybe trying to clean them up with some contact cleaner?
 
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You really need to stay away from any ATF that purports
to "condition seals" or anything besides being a tranny
fluid. I've blown out transmissions using these "life
extender" products. They contain solvents meant to
soften seals and make them swell up. As if leakage
is the biggest problem or a cuse of slippage (rather
than a fellow traveler).

I have also ruined a torque converter clutch (fortunately
not the main frictions) by using an off-rec ATF.

You can't know until you go, pretty much.

Just follow the prescription and don't use stuff that
ain't it.
 

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There's another thing. Manufacturers seem to be keen
on "managing" slip. The PCM will continually "learn" to
a low but finite slip RPM target. This is to shed pump load
caused by more head pressure than absolutely necessary.
The finite slip RPM is used because you can't close a
control loop around its endpoint limit (cannot go below
zero RPM, but you can close the loop at, say, 10RPM
and not harm the frictions. Hopefully at WOT / high load
this "management strategy" gets overridden to full line.

Anyway, a gross viscosity or friction-modifier-package
change in the fluid can put you out-of-bed with the
learned pump pressure profile that it's got stored. It
could take a lot of driving to relearn the whole map
and there's a chance you could ruin (glaze) the frictions
meanwhile.

Friction-modifiers I think is what did the TCC in, they
were the whole shade-tree point (but problem was,
TCC friction material is evidently -not- like OEM
TH350 / TH400 friction material, whence the folk
"wisdom".
 

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The ATF looks good on the stick, good level checked while hot.
It is a single drain-fill
He changed ATF for me before (I let him change it on Honda schedule for documentation, I change the ATF myself for every A1 as a "silent" service just for my piece of mind). Everything was OK the last time using the same fluid as this time.

One thing I didn't mention was that during the fill, he spilled some outside and made a little mess so he sprayed some cleaner and water to clean the front of the engine. I do see some fluid remain on the electrical connectors. I don't know if this could cause problem. I was more worried about getting the VCMMuzzle2 connector wet because I'm not sure if it is made to the same standard as the rest of the connectors. I think new engine can take a little water hosing without problem but I never feel comfortable doing that myself.
Sounds like you are getting closer to solving the problem.
Even using the wrong ATF with only a single drain and fill will not cause your problems.
It is most likely an electrical problem due to the spill and/or attempted cleanup.
Sure hope that is all it is.
Buffalo4
 

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The PCM will continually "learn" to a low but finite slip RPM target. This is to shed pump loadcaused by more head pressure than absolutely necessary.
dick, you might be talking about a different transmission design.

These Hondas don't have a PCM-directed constant maintained slip over any clutch package for any engaged gear, ever, for the Honda 5 and 6 speed boxes, at any throttle lever angle. I can't speak for the Gen 5 kit.

If that type of slip happens, it will eventually throw a 0720 code for the output shaft sensor due to a miscompare with expected values from the countershaft in that particular engaged gear (been there, done that, long story). The code can be cleared, as the actual physical sensor is not kaput.

On that note, back to the problem...for Nhu, is there a Check Engine Light illuminating during all of this?

OF
 

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And no flashing D, or error message of any type?
 
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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Nothing at all. I'm always very easy with the van, nearly never go pass 2500 and no towing. I suppose if I drive hard (thus the jerk is harder) then it could cause the error message.
 
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