[bluesramsrock]

Just returned from going to pick up our Ody but alas we came back in our own car. After reading the posts on other threads I was careful to take note of the paint-job.

The driver's side sliding door was marred by several dark "swirls" beneath the clear-coat. It looked as if someone had tried to correct a base-coat defect with very poor results. This defect was so obvious it should never have escaped Honda's QC at the factory. (I suspect it didn't, but they ship'em and know they hold the cards if you accept.)

After reading the thread concerning "Major Paint Problem" and how Honda has avoided helping this consumer, we're probably out of the Honda market.

The difficult part is that this vehicle really is head and shoulders above the competition in it's class in value and functionality. I'm not sure what we will end up with but it won't be this Ody anyway.

This board surely helped me by ensuring I closely inspected this vehicle. Thanks for all of your help.

 

[groupset]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by bluesramsrock:
After reading the thread concerning "Major Paint Problem" and how Honda has avoided helping this consumer, we're probably out of the Honda market.</font>

What color was the van you declined? Starlight Silver is the only Odyssey color I'm aware of that's had paint problems - that's enough to give up on Hondas altogether?? They do make 'em in other colors...

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">The difficult part is that this vehicle really is head and shoulders above the competition in it's class in value and functionality. I'm not sure what we will end up with but it won't be this Ody anyway.</font>

The first part of your statement is the answer - I'd simply look for another Odyssey in a different color. (And from the comments on your similar post in the paint thread; I'd look for a different dealer, also!) We don't want to lose a member of our forum!



------------------
David
'01 GG EX-NAVI
Classic Soft Trim leather kit; Audiovox entertainment system; Gentex auto dimming compass/temp rear view mirror; Pioneer speakers front & rear; splash guards; cargo tray; cargo liner; power door mods; Helm manual; Honda litter bag.

 

[bluesramsrock]

David asked: What color was the van you declined? Starlight Silver is the only Odyssey color I'm aware of that's had paint problems -

The color was granite green.

"that's enough to give up on Hondas altogether"


That's what I'm trying to decide. I was sitting in MY new car a few hours ago and it really felt good! But:

I purchased my first new car in 1977, it was a Toyota and I've bought several Toyota's since then. When I've encountered problems with my Toyotas (problems have been few and far between.) Toyota has always stood behind them.

I can't imagine this level of defect ever leaving a Toyota factory. On the other hand every Toyota I've purchased ( 77'Corolla, 79' Celica, 82' Cressida and 1991 Previa were all built in Japan. Maybe this a North American build problem and I need to limit my choices to Japan built?

In any event I can't imagine Toyota treating a customer the way Tom (In the Major Paint Problem topic) has been treated by Honda.

I've had Toyota reimburse me for out of warranty repairs because they were willing to listen objectively to a loyal customer's concerns. I don't feel Honda would do that.

To summarize: my concerns are poor quality control at the factory, Honda's customer care group - doesn't care and a local dealer that didn't impress me when things weren't going their way.

We may have to put a few tens of thousands more miles on the Previa (still going strong at 190,000 miles) and wait for it's successor. Mike

 

[ckonarske]

That's always been my experience with Toyota, too. This is my first Honda since 1975 (and my first non-Toyota since 1979). We'll see if Honda will match Toyota in customer service. I hope so.

------------------
Chuck
Click here for Ody pics, mods and fixes.

 

[tomhan]

Sorry to hear about your experience. For months I've had to post negative information on this site about my paint and Honda's dismal response and lack of concern. It has really bugged me because I'm not negative by nature and I end up leaving the impression that I'm a chronic complainer. This is in general a very positive site with friendly and well informed people.

If there is any comfort to be gained it is in knowing that the information posted about my paint problem helped you to avoid the same pitfall.

I too am bewildered by Honda's attitude and unwillingness to stand behind their products. I asked the same question...How could this have passed their quality control people?

I have driven Toyotas for years and have been very, very satisfied. Toyota covered me under what they called a courtesy warranty for a $350.00 "out of warranty" repair and they were very responsive and willing to help. It involved replacing the front strut mounting plates on my 97 Camry because they became noisy and the newer models had an improved design.

Honda is acting as if I don't exist. On three occasions they have cancelled my appointment with the factory rep but casually say they will meet with me but "it sounds as if my problem is characteristic of the paint". I am now being told that the factory rep has gone on vacation and will get with me when he returns. Yea, sure.

But still...the ODY is the best thing going compared to the other minivans. I would suggest that you find one with a good paint job, buy the extended warranty, and enjoy.

------------------
Tom
2001 SS EX ?

[This message has been edited by tomhan (edited 07-11-2001).]

 

[nemogira]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by tomhan:
...How could this have passed their quality control people?
</font>

Strange, 1999s & 2000s never had much of a paint problem (at least not that I know of). It seems to be mainly a 2001 problem. It's possible that Honda just tried to speed up production to meet with consumer demands. And in the process they let a couple of uncomplete vans go through. Whether if they knew about it or not - it's still unacceptable.

-nemogira

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2000 CCS EX-NAVI


[This message has been edited by nemogira (edited 07-11-2001).]

 

[lifer]

I've got an 02 Ody on order.

I've owned 6 different Hondas and now own my first Toyota (Lexus LX 450). I've always held both companies as roughly equal and assumed that both treat their customers as NOBODY, the way I know Honda does. Even if I'm wrong, I don't think I'd change my mind and buy a Toyota because the Ody is so much higher on my personal list. I'm buying the Ody to get the car I want and am just hoping I never have occasion to need anything from the company (pretty sad statement).

If any of the major luxury car manufacturers made minivans (especially Lexus), I'd jump all over it.

My $0.02.

 

[FrankBullitt]

Sorry to hear about your paint problem-actually I guess it's still Honda's paint problem. I was going to buy a DEP Ody this February from a dealer here in Illinois- a two hour drive, but they had one for immediate delivery that I was assured was "perfect" and wouldn't be test driven. To make a long irritating story short, when we arrived it looked perfect- except for a perfectly horrid buffer swirl in the hood that looked like 100gr sanding marks. It became obvious that at least some of the characters involved knew about it but hoped we wouldn't notice. They tried to buff it out, but then they covered the whole hood with swirls! I dunno... maybe that kind of thing plays in Peoria. The happy ending is we came back and ordered one locally, and waited 6 weeks for one with a finish that is flawless.

My point? Unless you saw the defect as the car came off the truck, I wouldn't rule out a detail monkey's handiwork/repair.

We did have a problem with the paint on our black 96 Accord- a series of small crackles in the clear coat on horizontal surfaces. I expected a fight (acid rain etc.) but Honda promptly repainted the affected surfaces and admitted it to be their problem.

My family has also found Honda to be pretty good about covering defects for out of warranty items, either free or for a dramatically reduced cost. In fact, it's been Honda's willingness to stand behind their cars that help persuade me to buy the Odyssey. That and the fact that the wife said she would not drive anything else.

 

[bnoble]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by tomhan:

I too am bewildered by Honda's attitude and unwillingness to stand behind their products.

I have driven Toyotas for years and have been very, very satisfied. Toyota covered me under what they called a courtesy warranty for a $350.00 "out of warranty" repair and they were very responsive and willing to help.
</font>

I donated my 87 Toyota Camry when we bought our 01 SS LX (no paint swirls to the best of
my knowledge.) I too am surprised. So far,
we've been pleased with Honda; they corrected some small shipping damage on the front bumper cover that we did not notice. The dealership picked that up, since they missed it on inspection, too.

They also paid to replace one of our Firestones (ick) that developed an impact break in the first few hundred miles, and also bought us road hazard insurance for all four tires. I will never own another set of firestones. I'm actually looking forward to the fast tread wear so I can dump them).

This plus selling us the van for a few dollars under MSRP.

We don't have any "regular service" experience with them yet, but they have a lot of room to improve on my Toyota experience. I've used three different Toyota dealerships for service. Every single one attempted to sell me every single repair they could possibly think of, whether I needed it or not. Granted, the work I did let them do was done well, but it was also done expensively.

Our best service experiences have come from Subaru. We've used two different dealerships to service a 94 Imrpeza (much smaller than the ody, btw) and each one has on more than one occasion sold us *less* expensive repairs than we thought we needed, and fixed the problem.

Finally, IIRC, these vans come with a 1yr/12k "fit and finish" warranty that *should* cover these sorts of paint problems. A body shop could strip a panel and refinish it for a few hundred bucks, tops; this is not an expensive repair.

 

[triplecut]

You folks won't like this but I have looked long and hard at the Odyssey vs the Grand Caravan EX and still haven't made a decision.

One thing though is I have yet to see anything but perfect paint on the Caravan EX models (only available in 4 or 5 colors). The extra cost red color is really nice and all examples I've seen are flawless.

I think Honda has a basic production process problem they haven't been able to solve yet.

Jim

 

[Jim F]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by triplecut:
One thing though is I have yet to see anything but perfect paint on the Caravan EX models </font>

I have yet to see anything but flawless paint on the Odysseys I've seen. And I've seen a bunch.

------------------
Jim

'01 GG EX

 

[bluesramsrock]

"I have yet to see anything but flawless paint on the Odysseys I've seen. And I've seen a bunch."

If you need to see to believe, Huey's Honda, Lindbergh Blvd. St. Louis, Missouri. I would suspect it's still on the lot!

 

[triplecut]

Actually, Jim, I have seen nothing but flawless paint on Odyssey's myself.

It would be interesting to see these flawed Silver vehicles, although I think this post was regarding a granite green van.

I don't know if this is possible, but maybe the paint changes or "turns" after it and the clear coat is applied when exposed to sunlight or something, therefore getting through the factory ok but changing later. Sort of a photochromatic action. Anyone an expert on automotive paints out there??

Jim

 

[Bigrob]

Not that I would ever bash Toyota, because I owned a great '84 Camry that I never had problems with, but I have heard and read from various postings that the Toyota Sienna has had some pretty significant quality issues of its own... and that a number of people have NOT been treated well by Toyota lately... part of a cost-cutting program or something, and also an attempt to further seperate "the Lexus experience" from the more plebian "Toyota" experience. The oil sludge problem mentioned by a number of people re: the Sienna, and Toyota's response to it, would give me pause before considering a Sienna... again, it's the type of thing that probably affects only a few vehicles out of a thousand, but if you happen to get one of those few, you want the right kind of response... not the response that Tom has gotten from Honda nor the response that several others have gotten from Toyota on what amounts to a $3,000-$4,000 engine replacement.

If you do go with Toyota, bear in mind that things you used to be able to count on in the past with Toyota may no longer be true.

Best of luck either way. I guess the closest you can come to a luxury-line minivan is the MDX, but while it shares a lot of the elements with the Ody, the form/function are probably too different to be a fit for you.

------------------
Eric
'01 SS EX/NAVI
Next up: Replace factory speakers

 

[Jim F]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by bluesramsrock:
If you need to see to believe, Huey's Honda, Lindbergh Blvd. St. Louis, Missouri. I would suspect it's still on the lot!
</font>

I don't doubt you in the least, Blues. I was just saying that I've never seen any myself. I'd like to see some first hand. GM had a run of bad paint in the 80's. The clear coat would just crack and flake off.

The same thing happened to my Isuzu pickup. So I'm sensitive to paint problems.

------------------
Jim

'01 GG EX

 

[MerpsMom]

Does it make a difference where the cars are built? My defunct '01EX which is being replaced at three weeks old was built in Ontario. Heck, I didn't even know they had a plant there. Any differences in locale? I'm almost hoping my next one due in two weeks will have a different birthplace.

 

[ckonarske]

They're all made there in Alliston, Ontario.

------------------
Chuck
Click here for Ody pics, mods and fixes.

 

[MerpsMom]

Bummer.

 

[nedlyj]

I have to admit I do get a kick out of hearing that a non-perfect paint job would sway anyone from an Odyssey to a Caravan. It just seems so trivial in the grand scheme. I'm sure there's another Odyssey out there somewhere that can be purchased with a better paint job. Heck after a year and a half, some door dings and a pesky fire hydrant (don't ask) the van's going to show a little wear anyway. It's all the rest of the stuff that really matters. Why would the paint on a single vehicle make anyone want to switch to a Caravan? Am I missing something here?

As for service, I would agree. I've had three Toyotas and two Mazdas. The Ody is my first Honda. Toyota service was always good and Mazda was excellent (They picked up a $2000 sunroof repair 6 months after warranty because the warranty expired in the winter and they knew the sunroof must have broken when I last used it in the fall). Honda however has been another story. I would rate the service as adequate at best. But that's why these boards are so valuable - you're always well armed when you go in for service.

------------------
'99 MB EX, Splash Guards, Cargo Tray, Cargo Mat, Leather Steering wrap,
Cassette deck, Cross bars, floor mats, custom carpet


[This message has been edited by nedlyj (edited 07-14-2001).]

 

[lwaltz]

Nope.... I own a Voyager, and if anyone has ever paid a visit to the chrysler peeling paint web sites (there are a bunch), then I have the same question. Take a look at my own page on the subject here -- http://pages.prodigy.net/leo.waltz/peelie.html

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by nedlyj:
... Why would the paint on a single vehicle make anyone want to switch to a Caravan? Am I missing something here?

</font>