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I may have a chance to work with a guy on a sub box that fits in the spare tire. Is there interest in this to make it worth my while? Would sell the box at cost and include directions. I believe it would be a clean package. Let me know you feelings.

Bob

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2001 GG Ex, Leather, GPS, TV/DVD, Donnely Mirror, WingWest areo kit, 17x8 wheels w/yokahamas.
 

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I am very interested, but may I ask who are you working with? What type of driver and enclosure design are you thinking? (acoustic suspension, vented, bandpass, etc..) I am assuming it's just a slave unit, correct? How about estimated cost?

There was another sub thread talking about working with Sub Solutions on a spare tire well sub... Is this the same one or are you working on your own design?

Just curious. I'm working on something myself, but finding time to do my project is tough with a toddler and a second one the way...

here's the link to the other thread when someone else mentioned this idea..

http://www.odyclub.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000032.html

Keep me posted!
-SJ

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Bob or anyone else out there,

Do you know the internal air volume of the spare tire well, and the actual volume of the mini-spare? If you had this info, it'll help me ALOT. I really don't want to do the "fill the area up with water to measure the volume test" if I don't have to.

Another comment: I went to an Acura dealership to check out the RSX-S and took a look at the Bose spare tire sub that comes standard in that vehicle. The sub is really tiny, and my impression was that the output was pretty meager. I didn't have any CDs to really test thoroughly though. Any sub fitting in the spare tire has to be pretty small, so I guess what can you expect? I bet the KB sub acutally plays louder/lower/better because of its larger size (I believe).

Anyhow,
-SJ

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My Sentra SE has a whopping 6.5" factory sub - it really pounds - NOT! Factory subs don't work, and anything under 10" is marginal.

To measure the internal volume of the spare tire well you can use sand instead of water.

Personally I think I will reuse a sub that I have - I plan to build a standard box to spec and leave it in the 3rd seat well with enough wire to move it above the florr to tumble the seat. Worst case I can unplug it and remove it when I need ALL the space.
 

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I don't want sub-bass, I just want bass.

So I consider it a bass module, not a subwoofer. (FWIW, that's what the large box in a Bose system is called, too. It's not there to give sub-bass, it's there to give bass. Period.)

Subwoofer is a marketing term that came about over the last several years, and is mis-used every time a marketing geek says it. Subwoofers need 15" drivers or better and go 20-100Hz max, and they need A LOT of power to move that much air.

But people think that "to get get bass, you need a subwoofer". I guess in terms of factory car audio, with its history, that's as good as you'll get from those people. It's too hard to explain the difference between good (proper) sound reproduction and boom-car sub-bass when your audience is the mass market.

All I want in my Ody is decent sound, and that includes actual bass. The Kelton box goes up to 400Hz; that's not a subwoofer, that's just a bass module. And it's nice that it's an official Honda accessory that plugs right into the wiring harness.

Now, if the system is crossed over correctly such that we can prevent the 6.5ers from even TRYING to reproduce anything below 350Hz, that would be great. I'm not holding my breath, though.

(Does anyone remember years back when Honda first got a Bose system in the Accords? God-awful. All they did was take the crappy factory sound and add thumpy lumpy sub-bass to it.)

Let's face it, Honda is WAY behind on factory audio. I remember driving an Oldsmobile back in 1995 or so; it had kick-ass factory sound that you'd have to spend a bunch of money to improve on. But look at us--we spend $120 total swapping out Honda's speakers, and improve the sound 300%. That's plain wrong.

That's the biggest wart Honda has. Fortunately, it's fixable. But it's still annoying that such a great company building such great and quality cars can dump that crap on its customers.
 

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the new acura rsx has an optional factory spare tire sub-woofer. am curious to know the application this sub might have with the odyssey sound system and the differences between this subwoofer vs the kelton subwoofer.

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jay-q
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(1) One comes standard with the Type S. They're not calling it a sub-woofer, they're (properly) calling it a woofer. Interesting.

(2) Do we know it's *not* from the same manufacturer as the Ody piece?

(3) Is there an option for a bass module accessories in the lower end models?

The Type S has a Bose sound system, so it's probably not the same thing. But cost containment would have it be the same piece, so....
 

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Interesting post Adam. You make some very good points. Some of my own comments...

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by adam1991:

Subwoofer is a marketing term that came about over the last several years, and is mis-used every time a marketing geek says it. Subwoofers need 15" drivers or better and go 20-100Hz max, and they need A LOT of power to move that much air.
</font>
Use of the term "subwoofer" seems to be a minor semantic issue; I use the term to describe a stand alone low frequency module, separate from full range speakers. Usually bandwidth is limited to the 20Hz-150Hz range. Perhaps many misuse the term, but I think most people understand it in a concept very similar to my usage, correct or not...

I very much disagree with the notion that a 15" driver is needed to get low bass response (down to 20 Hz). In the case of cars, the transfer function of the vehicle affects response so dramatically, even drivers as small as 6.5" OD can get very low. It's more a matter of efficiency, power handling and excursion, which translates ultimately to SPL.

In the home, there are plenty of examples of 10" and 12" subwoofers that get down to ~25Hz without a problem, and can shake the walls of an average size room at that! The NHT 1259 is a wonderful driver that, with a properly sized/tuned enclosure, goes that low and provides audiophile like sound. Velodyne's servo subs also have no problem getting that low in 10" and 12" sizes too. (but can't obviouly play as loud as their 15")

Then the converse of this is the 15" guitar amp speaker (high Q, light cone, textile surround) that can barely play down to 65Hz. Size really isn't the main design parameter, unless you are talking SPL (and somewhat) efficiency.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
It's too hard to explain the difference between good (proper) sound reproduction and boom-car sub-bass when your audience is the mass market.
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Sound quality is VERY subjective, and not everyone likes the same thing. Ideally, good sound reproduction is exactly that: reproducing the original recording in a lifelike manner. However, with digial recording technology, EQing in the studio, after recording mixing (even with classical symphony recordings!), this gets very confusing. Also, different people like different sounds, according to their musical preferences, etc..

The typical boomer tends to have a 12dB resonance right around 60 Hz, as this is where most cars tend to amplify the best. That's the "one-note" sound of the boom car. Seems to me that only bigtime rap fans like this type of setup though...

What makes car audio difficult for bass response is the preponderance of sub 100Hz noise in the vehicle. In order to hear the low frequencies reasonably well, the car must be tuned to have a rising response on the low end. This, and sound proofing, are the only way to hear low frequencies reasonably well.

My subwoofer system (I definitely call it a sub, f3 in car ~23Hz) uses a separate remote volume control (many companies offer this for their amps or amplified systems) so that I can tune in the amount of bass based on music, driving speed (ambient noise level) etc...

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
All I want in my Ody is decent sound, and that includes actual bass. The Kelton box goes up to 400Hz; that's not a subwoofer, that's just a bass module.
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I too am in the search of decent sound in the Ody too...(my wife thinks my definition of decent means perfection
hee,hee)

I can't believe the Kelton plays up to 400Hz! (never seen or heard one myself) That is just ridiculous. If it plays that high, there will be ALOT of localization of that speaker, and sound stage, imaging, etc should be severely compromised... How did you find out about its x-over f?

(edited just now...) Oh, but just occurred to me that the Kelton unit has adjustable x-over f. So if 400Hz is the top end, how low can you adjust the f, anyone know?

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Now, if the system is crossed over correctly such that we can prevent the 6.5ers from even TRYING to reproduce anything below 350Hz, that would be great. I'm not holding my breath, though.
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Crossing over the front speakers with passive crossovers is very easy. Just a simple capacitor in series for 6dB/oct., a cap in series and inductor in parallel for 12dB/oct. You can get a steeper slope, but phase response tends to suffer a bit beyond those. I'd recommend crossing over the main speakers at ~85-100Hz, to save the factory head unit some dynamic headroom on the highs, then setting the sub crossover similarly. A slight bit of overlap on the frequencies usually ensures flatter, more natural response.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
But look at us--we spend $120 total swapping out Honda's speakers, and improve the sound 300%. That's plain wrong.

That's the biggest wart Honda has. Fortunately, it's fixable. But it's still annoying that such a great company building such great and quality cars can dump that crap on its customers.
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Very right indeed, we all think this sound system is terrible. In my perspective though, I never keep factory anyway, so I'm buying the car more for it's other capabilities anyway, and I must say I've never been more pleased with a car purchase as I have this vehicle!

Just my 2 cents.
-SJ

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[This message has been edited by shinjohn (edited 09-04-2001).]
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by jay-q:
the new acura rsx has an optional factory spare tire sub-woofer. am curious to know the application this sub might have with the odyssey sound system and the differences between this subwoofer vs the kelton subwoofer.
</font>
It should fit in the spare tire SPACE, just like it does in the RSX, but whether it can be mounted securely is another question. The RSX uses a long bolt to go through the bass module and tie it, along with the spare to the floor of the car. Yep, that's right, the bass module holds the tire down!

Don't know if the hole in the bass module and the floor nut in the Ody would line up. Someone just needs to try this out...

In as far as wiring, I do not know. The KB sub for the Ody has a wiring kit to make it plug and play. There may be some wire splicing, etc.. to make the Acura unit work.

Differences in sound, dunno because I have no experience with the KB. The Acura/bose one was not too impressive, though uses a similar size driver to the KB. Since the KB is directly beneath you in the seat, I think you'd hear it significantly better than inside the spare tire well, unless you cut some metal. Also keep in mind the Acura unit was designed specifically for a smaller air volume hatchback, not a huge minivan. I would tend to think its performance would suffer when put in the Ody, vs. in the Acura.

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shinjohn:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Then the converse of this is the 15" guitar amp speaker (high Q, light cone, textile surround) that can barely play down to 65Hz. Size really isn't the main design parameter, unless you are talking SPL (and somewhat) efficiency.</font>
So you're saying that size doesn't matter?



<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I can't believe the Kelton plays up to 400Hz! (never seen or heard one myself) That is just ridiculous. If it plays that high, there will be ALOT of localization of that speaker, and sound stage, imaging, etc should be severely compromised... How did you find out about its x-over f?</font>
http://www.handa-accessories.com/odyelec02.html

It's been so long since I've dealt with this stuff day to day, I'm not sure what localization 400Hz will bring.

But yeah, 100Hz crossover, certainly. I just hate *any* amp, especially a factory head unit, trying to shove 50Hz through where it can't really be handled.

I'm with you on ditching the factory setup, but this is my wife's car so we got the RES and I'm keeping it. Were this my car, I'd get an LX and $3K worth of stereo...
 
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