Is is possible to remove just the transaxle to access the flywheel? Most articles I've read say that you need to drop both the engine and transaxle together thru the bottom of the vehicle. Any advice would be appreciated.
yes...no problem to remove the transaxle only. You'll need to support the engine from above, drop the front subframe, and take the trans out the bottom. It's a big job, but not difficult. My suggestion...spend the $26 and subscribe to ALLDATAdiy.com. They have a very good step by step on trans R&R.
Thanks for the advice! I'm pretty mechanically inclined and have worked on cars a lot, just never dove into an Odyssey before. In case you were wondering, the van is currently down and I have found that it's either one of two things. A broken crankshaft or the flywheel bolts have backed off and it is on longer attached to the end of the crank. I removed the little cover to view the flywheel. My buddy cranked the vehicle and the starter engages the flywheel and turns the flywheel but the engine won't turn over! I then ran the engine thru a full cycle by barring it over on the pulley. It has good compression throughout with no binding while turning it over. The only two things that I could think of that could cause this problem is a broken crankshaft or the flywheel bolts are no longer attached to the end of the crank. What do you think? I thank you for your help! I figured dropping the transaxle would be the lesser of the two evils to see what's really going on. Do you agree? Oh by the way, Honda put a new transmission in this van 60K miles ago. Have had no problems with the tranny but I'm wondering if they didn't torque things properly when re-installing the tranny.....just a thought. Thanks again.
the ring gear is on the torque converter. The converter is bolted onto the drive-plate by (8) REALLY dinky little bolts (6mm) that only get like 8.7 ft-lb of torque. It would be extremely easy to over or under torque those. You can see them w/ the inspection cover removed. Make sure they aren't sheared off or missing....that would be an easy place for the shop to screw up. In that scenario, the starter would spin the converter but not turn the engine over.
I don't remember if the ring gear is pressed on or welded to the converter. If it's pressed on, it might be slipping. I don't *think* the crank bolts can back out with the converter in place and I'd be shocked if they sheared or if the crank broke.
It appears the ring gear is welded onto the TC case.
So, wade's deduction of the two possibilities seems to be the place to look: the 8 small bolts that secure the drive plate to the crankshaft, or the 8 even-smaller bolts that secure the TC to the drive plate.
p-proman, you sound like an incredibly patient guy. I would be tearing my meager hair out if this happened to me.
It would be impossbile for the 8 bolts holding the flex plate to the crank to all fall out. The torque convertor is pressed right up against them, and you should here wicked rattling as the flex plate spins.
My schematic shows a few millimeters of clearance between those bolts and the TC...
...but you're right. They'd have to each individually back out, bit-by-bit, until the assembly fell off...but the TC can't move that far towards the case to allow this. Hmmmm....
One would figure that the noise from the other bolts leaving would be unbearable. Then again, we've seen stranger things on this forum, like the guy who changed his water pump with the timing belt service, and found his Ody overheating....the water pump impeller and its shaft parted company, but the bearings and gland (shaft seal) were all tip-top.
Never said they could fall out (by themselves, that is), but I'm glad you asked in a civil manner (this is a big compliment to you, mj...too many people nowadays just give other posters the third degree...happens too much on forums these days).
If they were all hand-threaded (installer forgot to torque them), they'd all eventually back out a couple millimeters. Then the plate would move in that direction. They back out another couple millimeters, followed by the plate once again. Because of the limited clearance, once this starts, the plate can never again "flush up" with the face of the crank axis, and the problem quickly gets worse until either it falls off, or in this case reaches the limits of how far the TC can lateraly move (it'd stop moving towards the direction of the A/T case for the Honda, as far as I can tell).
While I was looking through the diagrams, I noticed that this thing is nothing more than an "upsized" HondaMatic tranny. These things were uber reliable on older Accords and Gen 1 Odys. I guess there is a lot to the assertions by many OdyClub members that all the extra weight of the Gen 2 van, and in turn generated heat, is tough on these things.
My flex plate sheared off, I had about 300K miles on it when it happened. If it shears off you can't start the engine. I had it towed to the dealer , they dropped the tranny and replaced the flex plate. Parts $79, labor $800.
There is a way to check it, ther is a access panel that you can remove, if you can turn the flex plate with your hand, it is bad.
I now have 465K miles and it runs great, the tranny has 325K on it and shifts so smooth.
Just something to think about although a different brand, I had a Caravan I got cheap because it wouldn't turn over but the starter spun. The van had the tranny replaced a few months before. I found the flywheel cracked and broken in a circle around the crank bolts. Thought that was weird so replaced it. A few months later it broke again. Replaced again but was extra careful re-installing the tranny and found one side would not seat properly so it was out of alignment which made the flywheel flex as the engine ran and eventually would break. Fixed the seating problem, dirt crammed in one of the guide pin holes, and all was good after.
Thanks to all who replied.....especially Wade Chamberlain who led me to a great website. The mystery has been solved!! A friend and I were able to remove the transaxle without removing the engine and found the problem. The center of the drive plate was still bolted to the crankshaft, but had separated from the rest of the driveplate. It appeared that the center was originally welded to the rest of the driveplate and broke. The damaged driveplate did take some metal off the rear seal cover plate and the oil pan but I can replace those easily enough now that it's apart. New driveplate, new rear seal (why not do it while I can access it), new covers and I'm back in business. Thanks again Wade for giving me the confidence to dive into this one. It really wasn't that bad, just time consuming and required some patience. To those who want to know how I was able to just remove the transaxle alone without pulling the engine; you must support the engine from above with a cherry picker (hoist) during the transaxle removal. You will also need a floor jack under the vehicle to support the transaxle for removal. It would have been a lot easier to do this job on a lift but I was able to do it in my 2 car garage with a helper.
power; I also will be removing the transmission and would like to know where you attached the cherry picker to? I did not see any attachment brackets on the engine. I was thinking of making a bracket from L angle with holes on it and attach the bracket to engine passenger side mounting bracket (after I removed the rubber engine mount) and use it as hanging point. I do not know what I am going to do for the drivers side yet (I have to hang at 2 places to be able to keep it at the angle I need to remove the transmission). I will be using an engine support that hangs the engine (legs of the support will be sitting on the frame rails) instead of a cherry picker. I will be raising the van up on the lift and use a hydraulic transmission jack for transmission removal.
Thanks for the response.
aslanefe - FSM says to use the engine braceing bar and hang the engine from the throttle body. A small webbed strap would spread the load a bit, but a cable or chain will work as well. I pulled my tranny last week in the garage as well... no helper necessary, but I could see having someone hand you the tools
Special tools needed - trans jack, honda ball joint separator tool, 4x4 58" long (removal of the sub frame) cherry picker, or chain fall, or other method of holding the engine up....
the rest is pretty easy, look carefully for disconnects that you might have missed... there are a bunch of electrical connections, as well as physical things you wouldn't necessarily expect to remove.
Thanks for the info 69silver2k. Did you install a reman or used transmission or removed it for an other reason?
I was not sure if the intake manifold would be okay if I use it to brace the engine; but if FSM says so, it must be.
I do not have a "Honda" ball joint seperator but I think I can use some thing else and not damage the boot. I have some 1"X2" steel tubing and some thick sheets, after I get some threaded rod and chain I will be fabricating a universal engine support bar. I can drop the engine enough to remove the transmission from bottom using a floor jack, brace the engine, lift the car up on my 2 post lift and remove the transmission with 1000 lbs hydraulic transmission lift.
Next step is to overhaul the transmission.
you don't need to drop the engine down to remove the trans...there's just enough room to separate it without hitting the frame rail. I used an engine brace with a cable around the intake manifold, just behind the throttle body.