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422 Posts
Make a thread about it.
Oh, and go back to the dealer you have such a great relationship with...
Oh, and go back to the dealer you have such a great relationship with...
The things that the dealer does (or lack thereof)...RANT!
So today I finally had a chance to evaluate the rear main seal work that was done to my 06' Odyssey by my local Honda dealer. Although most of the work that was completed was done reasonably well I have a few things that I want to throw out there b/c its driving me crazy thinking about it. To be clear the dealer that did the work for me did in fact stretch their necks out to help me out with my out of warranty goodwill claim with Honda Canada. The dealer also gave me a break on the number of hours it took to do the job. All in all I guess I don't fault the dealer themselves but the mechanics that worked on our van.
This is what I discovered when I brought the van home:
1. Engine oil was at the minimum mark so the tech clearly didn't bother topping off the engine oil when he finished the job.
2. Transmission was overfilled by just a little over a 1/4" above the top "dot" on the tranny dipstick.
3. Alignment guy didn't set my steering wheel to absolute dead centre when he aligned it and after I took the van back to the dealership they said the right toe was out a hair which meant that I hit a curb (which I know I didn't). They fixed it for free and now the steering wheel is 95% of being dead centered.
4. I managed to drain the tranny fluid from the bottom of the tranny drain plug without much issue. I actually drained out a bit too much so I went to fill the tranny with Honda ATF and discovered that my once mint condition air cleaner box is now broken (the mount that goes on the battery tray). The rubber grommet and bolt is missing and its evident that there was something once mounted in that location. Tech must've forgotten there was a bolt hold down there and then snapped the wing off the air cleaner's housing. This housing if memory serves me correctly is $60CAD for a new lower section + $3 for the missing bolt.
5. God knows what other damage the mechanic did to the van while he was in there removing my transmission...
Do I go and bug the dealership to do good on this air cleaner box damage and inform them of everything I saw and fixed on my own or do I simply bite the bullet and purchase either a used or new lower air cleaner housing assembly and call it a day? I do in fact have a very good relationship with the dealer (parts department guys at least) and a reasonably good relationship with the service manager. I do have some reservations on asking the service manager to get me a replacement housing b/c of how much he's done for us already. He's a great guy and I don't want to come across as a guy that keeps bugging him for all sorts of things when in fact I almost never get my cars serviced by Honda. I guess $60 might not be that bad for a housing but I think I'm more annoyed at the principle of how someone doesn't own up or make things right the first time. I'm quite particular about things and to me what I've just witnessed just drives me batty! I'm an extremely competent mechanic that has done plenty of engine swaps and other work for friends and family (Hobby of mine) and I can say that I would NEVER not triple check my own work and to make sure that if I broke anything that I would either replace it or own up to it.
Going to now go through my engine bay with a fine toothed comb to determine if they've properly clipped all the lines and harnesses in the right places before I decide to go on my 600km trip next week....
So annoyed,
This is what I discovered when I brought the van home:
1. Engine oil was at the minimum mark so the tech clearly didn't bother topping off the engine oil when he finished the job.
2. Transmission was overfilled by just a little over a 1/4" above the top "dot" on the tranny dipstick.
3. Alignment guy didn't set my steering wheel to absolute dead centre when he aligned it and after I took the van back to the dealership they said the right toe was out a hair which meant that I hit a curb (which I know I didn't). They fixed it for free and now the steering wheel is 95% of being dead centered.
4. I managed to drain the tranny fluid from the bottom of the tranny drain plug without much issue. I actually drained out a bit too much so I went to fill the tranny with Honda ATF and discovered that my once mint condition air cleaner box is now broken (the mount that goes on the battery tray). The rubber grommet and bolt is missing and its evident that there was something once mounted in that location. Tech must've forgotten there was a bolt hold down there and then snapped the wing off the air cleaner's housing. This housing if memory serves me correctly is $60CAD for a new lower section + $3 for the missing bolt.
5. God knows what other damage the mechanic did to the van while he was in there removing my transmission...
Do I go and bug the dealership to do good on this air cleaner box damage and inform them of everything I saw and fixed on my own or do I simply bite the bullet and purchase either a used or new lower air cleaner housing assembly and call it a day? I do in fact have a very good relationship with the dealer (parts department guys at least) and a reasonably good relationship with the service manager. I do have some reservations on asking the service manager to get me a replacement housing b/c of how much he's done for us already. He's a great guy and I don't want to come across as a guy that keeps bugging him for all sorts of things when in fact I almost never get my cars serviced by Honda. I guess $60 might not be that bad for a housing but I think I'm more annoyed at the principle of how someone doesn't own up or make things right the first time. I'm quite particular about things and to me what I've just witnessed just drives me batty! I'm an extremely competent mechanic that has done plenty of engine swaps and other work for friends and family (Hobby of mine) and I can say that I would NEVER not triple check my own work and to make sure that if I broke anything that I would either replace it or own up to it.
Going to now go through my engine bay with a fine toothed comb to determine if they've properly clipped all the lines and harnesses in the right places before I decide to go on my 600km trip next week....
So annoyed,
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I have discovered the same with my local dealer(s). Yes dealers. They all seem to do it. That is why the ody only goes to the dealer for warranty work which so far hasn't been much as they "cannot reproduce" much. They broke my Accord's air box too. Then a couple of weeks later, when I took it in, they said who ever changes the air filter must have broken it so I asked you mean me? LOL. He called the master tech who said just replace it and that was that. 
I avoid taking the oddy in but I will have to take it in for the PS issue.
I avoid taking the oddy in but I will have to take it in for the PS issue.
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200 Posts
Yeah I intend to go back after thinking about it more last night. My good relationship with them in fact is with their part department as I have been buying plenty if parts from them for 12 years and that was in fact why the dealer what they did for me. I am betting that they may do good on the damage but I certainly don't want to bother the very guys that helped bat for me but on the other hand their young mechanic that did it should be held accountable for his negligence. I will see what happens on monday when I see them.
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22 Posts
The issues above are Global...Think about it... The people/person working on your car don't care.. it's not their car... they would rather "GET it out" and move on then deal with small issues that do not affect peformance. However like me I am anal about my work and make sure nothing is amiss.. But believe me these mechanics are not engineers like me and do not have that kinda mind..
They dont wanna admit they broke your air cleaner... that would cost them time, money and most likely, not deliver your car as promissed on schedule. Air cleaner boxes are probably not regular stock stuff..( not to failure prone).
I for one do all my own work,I cannot stand taking my cars in..
I say this is global because just last week, I HAD to take my AUDI into a local dealer... Had a Emissions Recall, which I can do in minutes however DMV wants certifaction of completion before REG. So long story short I take into dealer to do work and on way home from dealer Check engine light comes on...Mind you my car is in tip-top shape and had no issues previous..
SO I was perplexed...
When home placed VAGCOM (VW Specific SCAN TOOL) and its lighting up my engine module with 6 diffent failures. Looked up codes and derived were to look for issue as PCM was complaining about... Sure enough as I look at that locale the Mechanic whom did my Recall dint clip a vacuum pre-formed tube in its clip, resuling in serpentine belt grinding through hose as I drove.
Funny thing is looking up this code on internet ( other audi forums) this is commonly done by accident when doing that recall.
Geez I figured well erroring is human but to have treads regaring a common screw-up ..Man..
I also thought, well hay this is AUDI there mechanics must be better.. they deal with cars are VERY Expensive and parts that off hook in cost..Right?
Wrong still just as sloppy..
On a previous job at a Chrysler Stealer, I get home pop hood to see the work a dealer had done and found a phillips screwdriver hanging out..That's equal to a surgeon leaving tools inside you after buttoning you up!
So again My motto is fix all you can by yourself.. warantees and such are all just Hooey..My .02 Cents.
They dont wanna admit they broke your air cleaner... that would cost them time, money and most likely, not deliver your car as promissed on schedule. Air cleaner boxes are probably not regular stock stuff..( not to failure prone).
I for one do all my own work,I cannot stand taking my cars in..
I say this is global because just last week, I HAD to take my AUDI into a local dealer... Had a Emissions Recall, which I can do in minutes however DMV wants certifaction of completion before REG. So long story short I take into dealer to do work and on way home from dealer Check engine light comes on...Mind you my car is in tip-top shape and had no issues previous..
SO I was perplexed...
When home placed VAGCOM (VW Specific SCAN TOOL) and its lighting up my engine module with 6 diffent failures. Looked up codes and derived were to look for issue as PCM was complaining about... Sure enough as I look at that locale the Mechanic whom did my Recall dint clip a vacuum pre-formed tube in its clip, resuling in serpentine belt grinding through hose as I drove.
Funny thing is looking up this code on internet ( other audi forums) this is commonly done by accident when doing that recall.
Geez I figured well erroring is human but to have treads regaring a common screw-up ..Man..
I also thought, well hay this is AUDI there mechanics must be better.. they deal with cars are VERY Expensive and parts that off hook in cost..Right?
Wrong still just as sloppy..
On a previous job at a Chrysler Stealer, I get home pop hood to see the work a dealer had done and found a phillips screwdriver hanging out..That's equal to a surgeon leaving tools inside you after buttoning you up!
So again My motto is fix all you can by yourself.. warantees and such are all just Hooey..My .02 Cents.
A few years ago, my 2001 Ody had the same job done (Trans change), I ended up with similar issues.
I don't want to defend for the dealer but here it is: changing the Trans in any car is a massive job, taking some 10h to do it.
Not to mention a lot of parts need to be removed and installed and adjusted accordingly.
This job (Trans change) is a job for a Master Level tech, who has a perfectionist approach. Otherwqise, problem will show up later.
1. Low engine oil, you should have topped it up before going to dealer.
Although I agree with you that they should have checked oil level.
2. Trans ATF overfill of 1/4", no big deal, it is fine.
3. Steering crooked. This is a rookie mistake. They aligned the car to spec but did not take the car for a road test.
In 90% of the time, a 2nd adjustment is needed:
- First align to spec.
- Test drive the car, if the SW is slightly crooked, make note, then bring the car back to the shop.
- Adjust both wheels with "equal increment", i.e., if you bring the RF wheel Inward, then bring the LF wheel Outward with the same increment.
Anyway, they showed their willingness to help you after warranty, so they deserve some credit too. Life is a give-and-take thingy.
I don't want to defend for the dealer but here it is: changing the Trans in any car is a massive job, taking some 10h to do it.
Not to mention a lot of parts need to be removed and installed and adjusted accordingly.
This job (Trans change) is a job for a Master Level tech, who has a perfectionist approach. Otherwqise, problem will show up later.
1. Low engine oil, you should have topped it up before going to dealer.
Although I agree with you that they should have checked oil level.
2. Trans ATF overfill of 1/4", no big deal, it is fine.
3. Steering crooked. This is a rookie mistake. They aligned the car to spec but did not take the car for a road test.
In 90% of the time, a 2nd adjustment is needed:
- First align to spec.
- Test drive the car, if the SW is slightly crooked, make note, then bring the car back to the shop.
- Adjust both wheels with "equal increment", i.e., if you bring the RF wheel Inward, then bring the LF wheel Outward with the same increment.
Anyway, they showed their willingness to help you after warranty, so they deserve some credit too. Life is a give-and-take thingy.
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200 Posts
Yeah totally hear everyone here about sloppy work and the lack of a caring attitude. Given if I didn't have a kid on my hands I would absolutely do it on my own (I have the tools and know how). Oh well at least the van isn't leaking anymore and I can fix/replace what they missed/broke.
Definitely giving credit to dealer for their assistance. Some things just never change.
Definitely giving credit to dealer for their assistance. Some things just never change.
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3 Posts
My perspective is this from being on the other side of the counter for many years...Yes go back for sure. But be nice about it. (Catch more bees with honey than with vinegar). When issues arise like this, this maybe the only way to evaluate the tech and the job he is doing. If the service dept really cares about fixing it right the first time and customer satisfaction, they will make it right. I know I did for my customers.
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200 Posts
well I called up my dealership today to inform the service manager that the air cleaner housing (as well as a few other things were not quite done right) was damaged and is missing some pieces and he said without hesitation that he'd replace it no questions asked.
He simply told me to order the parts with my usual weekly parts order and to dealership would foot the bill for the part and missing bolt.
Dealer definitely knows how to look after their customers after all... HUGE kudos to them.
He simply told me to order the parts with my usual weekly parts order and to dealership would foot the bill for the part and missing bolt.
Dealer definitely knows how to look after their customers after all... HUGE kudos to them.
Definitely go back. Point out the broken stuff, be nice but firm. Don't mention about Oil and ATF, not worth it.
Have similar stories from my dealer experience. Absolutely hate dealing with them exactly for this reason.
Last time I had a repair done on my Maxima (not even warranty work for over $3000), I had to bring car back 2 or 3 times. They did not put cotter pins on axle nuts, lost the brake bleeder cap and scratched my rim in the car wash (right in front of my eyes).
Stealers, enough said......
Max
Have similar stories from my dealer experience. Absolutely hate dealing with them exactly for this reason.
Last time I had a repair done on my Maxima (not even warranty work for over $3000), I had to bring car back 2 or 3 times. They did not put cotter pins on axle nuts, lost the brake bleeder cap and scratched my rim in the car wash (right in front of my eyes).
Stealers, enough said......
Max
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174 Posts
OP, glad to hear they're stepping up.
Most "techs" work about 40 hours a week, but bill 70+ man hours, if they're good at what they do. If they're not good at what they do, they take shortcuts to "beat the clock." Sounds like you got the latter in this case.
The things "installers" do to cut time is unbelievable. I once was walking through a transmission shop and noticed the transmission was out of a (FWD) car and the axles were still bolted in the spindle. They had dropped the transmission and wrestled the inner joints out of the diff without removing the CV axles. Talk about a butcher...oh, and of course there was no jack stand supporting the engine, it was just hanging there, annihilating the engine mounts.
OY!
Most "techs" work about 40 hours a week, but bill 70+ man hours, if they're good at what they do. If they're not good at what they do, they take shortcuts to "beat the clock." Sounds like you got the latter in this case.
The things "installers" do to cut time is unbelievable. I once was walking through a transmission shop and noticed the transmission was out of a (FWD) car and the axles were still bolted in the spindle. They had dropped the transmission and wrestled the inner joints out of the diff without removing the CV axles. Talk about a butcher...oh, and of course there was no jack stand supporting the engine, it was just hanging there, annihilating the engine mounts.
OY!
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200 Posts
Yeah I think I have closure to this matter. I didn't give an update here the other day but I discovered that the mechanic working on my van also destroyed the plastic engine cover. One of the pegs we snapped clean off AND there was a chunk of plastic missing from the edge right by the oil filler cap that I didn't notice until I had to pull the cover off to get to another part. Dealer was appalled at what I told them but ultimately did good on the part and also ordered me a new engine cover. Basically dealer lost about $120 bucks worth of plastic parts because their mechanic was grossly negligent.
I took all the parts that dealer owed me and installed them myself. I feel much batter now that my van is back to where it was (minus the oil leak) before it went to the dealer.
Overall a rough experience but at least they did good so I can't complain anymore.
I took all the parts that dealer owed me and installed them myself. I feel much batter now that my van is back to where it was (minus the oil leak) before it went to the dealer.
Overall a rough experience but at least they did good so I can't complain anymore.
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