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After reading this I feel as though I should apologize..... for asking a question in a forum that I thought was for asking questions. Sorry to waste your time looking for statistics and experiences in a place meant for looking for statistics and experiences. Can I send you a Starbucks card or something for putting up with me?
Again, thank you all for this thread and what you've put into it. I don't mean my snarky responses above to come off as ungrateful... I'm just trying to gather data.
I don't understand your snarky responses when you're wandering into a resource thread and saying "I didn't read it - can you tell me what it says?" My response to my kids has been "There are no shortcuts - go do at least the basic work and then we can talk about what questions you have."

Not too concerned what the next guy that owns my van goes through.... at least not anymore concerned than I am about anyone else I don't know who's driving around in a used vehicle :)
Oof - Let me guess, you're also not going to proactively disclose to the next guy that the vehicle is beyond the service interval on a component that essentially guarantees engine failure? (or enjoy the anonymity of passing the car into the unknow via trading it in)

I'm an idiot. I won't play chicken with the interval on something like this (which is why I'm in this thread - to understand the time vs. mileage dimension) because I can just pass the pin-pulled grenade down the line. I'm going to make the car as solid as I can make it, and if I'm passing it along I'm not going to be silent on something like an overdue timing belt.

But to answer your original question from my perspective:
The way I'm looking at this is my 15 year old van is worth +/- $5000 so sinking $1,000+ into the timing belt preventatively is quite a % of the value. I love my van and 5K is a lot of money but it wouldn't financially ruin me by any stretch so I'm thinking of rolling the dice. I'm at 115K miles with no rattling or signs of a problem. Am I crazy?
The value of the vehicle is not all that relevant to me. As someone else said, it's the replacement value and what comes with it: A payment, uncertain history (for a used car) or both. The reason we have older, high-mileage cars is because we maintain them and the avoidance of car payments has kept a massive amount of money in our pockets to be used for retirement, vacations and a wide variety of other things. We can definitely afford new cars, but now that I'm used to not having a car payment (we even bought the Odyssey that brings me to this thread new with cash - it's been well over a decade since we had a car payment, maybe two) that I now see car payments as incredibly wasteful and something to avoid if at all possible. But that's me. I've bought used cars from friends on a couple of occasions when I knew the long history of the cars and because I knew they were people who took care of their cars. If that kind of known-history didn't exist, I'm not likely buying a $5000 used car, because the likelihood of it being a solid car isn't great.

Net: IMHO, avoidance of payments and potentially negative history is a value beyond what the vehicle would sell for
 
Well, the Ody went "under the knife" today and it was a success. Had the timing belt replaced by a local mechanic and all went well. This was mainly preventative at 15 years and 115K miles but I was starting to hear a bit of a rattle on "cold" starts. I say "cold" because I'm in Maui so it's never really that cold. Anyway, my mechanic confirmed the tensioner was leaking some fluid and starting to fail so I was wise to have it done (I was quick to give credit to the fine folks here on Odyclub).

I had him give me the parts and have attached some pictures for a data point (2008 EX-L, 115K miles). The timing belt itself looks/feels great as did the water pump and other parts. I suppose my experience is exactly what is to be expected. Belt is fine, tensioner is the weak link.

I got super lucky with my mechanic. It turns out he worked at the local Honda dealership for 5+ years and has done lots of timing belt jobs so I was in really good hands. He replaced the serpentine belt as well while he was in there as there were a couple nicks out of it. Just to my untrained eye/hands it felt/looked more brittle than the timing belt.

Thanks to everyone here... pics are attached.
 

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Discussion starter · #147 ·
The serpentine belt is not necessarily made to be as tough as the timing belt simply because it doesn't need to be. The timing belt is working with the engine cam and crank, both of which are critical for running the engine and can't be slipping around. The serpentine belt is outside and it drives accessories, which may be needed for sustaining engine operation but aren't going to cause major damage if they aren't running.
 
Yes, and arguably overdue but still falls under the definition of prevention... as in preventing it from breaking.

I got flamed all to hell for asking about OEM failures and admitting I hadn't read the entire thread (yet) but the reality is my lack of reading the thread didn't matter as there are VERY few reports of problems with original equipment (I have since read the whole thread and can't remember an OEM failure on an Ody under 200K - maybe there's one I missed). I get the whole what "could" happen "if" the belt were to break but the actual instances of it happening are extremely rare. Most of the problems on this thread are with bad work and/or parts.

This board is like every other one in the world. We're all a bunch of geeks that micromanage our vans. The reality is there are probably millions of Ody owners rolling around everyday with belts well past the years and mileage recommendations and they aren't lined up stranded by the roadside or in line buying new engines. As great as the internet is at educating people, it's also often a method of spreading fear and giving people a soapbox to do so.
 
Yes, and arguably overdue
You don't have to defend your stance to me.
Now others, . . .

I just asked a question, and I thank you for answering directly.
No flames from me.

I just recommend you caress that baby softly as she has taken care of you well. Perhaps a nice wash and wax, as a thanks. :D

I waited years over my TB time limit, but low miles.
It ended up being the TB tensioner clacking that forced my hand.

We all have are thresholds.
 
Here is an example of what happens to timing belt when you let it go too long.
Full disclosure, was working on 2005 Lexus es330 (3mz-fe engine), 185k miles, this is not original timing belt, but a GMB kit that was installed prior to car purchase in 2015 (at which point it had around 100k). I have no more details in terms of when exactly the belt was installed and how old it is. Water pump was leaking, and lucky for this guy, he listened to me and went with full Aisin TB kit.
Automotive tire Motor vehicle Rim Automotive wheel system Gas

Motor vehicle Nut Gas Engineering Metal
 

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Here is an example of what happens to timing belt when you let it go too long.
Full disclosure, was working on 2005 Lexus es330 (3mz-fe engine), 185k miles, this is not original timing belt, but a GMB kit that was installed prior to car purchase in 2015 (at which point it had around 100k). I have no more details in terms of when exactly the belt was installed and how old it is.
Wow, never saw one look like that at rec'd mileage. Is that cold damage? Only pics I've ever seen like that are way up North.
 
Wow, never saw one look like that at rec'd mileage. Is that cold damage? Only pics I've ever seen like that are way up North.
I have seen more than my fair share of timing belts, to be honest, vey few looked as bad, and typically its age related. My former neighbor had an S80 volvo p2 gen, with timing belt he refused to service. I remember the blessed day has come, when the belt told him, "I gave you all the chances in the world", the remnants of the broken belt looked just like my pic above. From what
I know, eventually the belt will just snap. Car is CT based.
 
I just had my T/B done at Hendrick Honda last Monday. They had a coupon going. $1248 parts and labor for everything. The independent Honda/Acura garage wanted $1150. Firestone (just for the sake of comparison) wanted $1079. It is one of those couple 2-3 jobs I won't do in part because I might not own the van when it comes due again. I did the plugs with the new NGK Ruthenium ones. Flushed the power steering with a new reservoir. 5W20 Mobil 1 Extended Life always. Brake fluid flushed and bled. A couple of bottles of Chevron Techron. She is set for a while.
 
Been putting off the TB job for quite awhile and finally cut my teeth on my first DIY. I did it in the evenings after work to the tune of 8-9 hours total working slowly and methodically, taking notes.
I purchased a high torque Rigid a few months back and it made this job possible I'm not sure how the starter bump method would have gone and there is no way I can manhandle the crank bolt on the ground .
I struggled getting the new belt on initially but after pulling on it fairly hard I was able to get the front cam installed in time and had a few moments of WTF on the rear cam. Once I put a 17 mm wrench on to help wiggle the cam a bit the belt found its new home.

.
 
I'm planning on doing the timing belt along with some other little things in the next week or so. I've read through every thread on here I can find, watched numerous videos online including MrRangerZ, and read through the Haynes manual. I'll also preface by saying this will be my 1st timing belt job, and I'm unwilling to pay a mechanic or dealership $700-$1500 for the job. I've read not to do this as your first TB, but that's just not an option for me right now.

I just want to go through what I'm planning and see what I'm not considering or what I've got wrong with the plan, and ask a few questions.

1. Dealership mentioned during a recent 'free inspection' there is a slight oil pump seal leak and I'm adding a bit of oil every 1000kms.
2. TB was last done 60,000 miles and about 6 years ago. Water pump was not replaced at that time. While is a little early for the job, but with oil pump seal leak, WP not being done, and being in Canada with colder weather, I'd like to do it now. I like the idea of getting this van in better shape than when I bought it in December now that it's at 210,000km and getting things done.
3. I purchased the Aisin kit in addition to several seals from Honda and plan on replacing them as well (oil pump seal, crank seal, cam seals, oil filter housing seal/vtec seal/o-ring) because I'm already down there and they seem to be points that can cause leaks and may be leaking, even though Honda said it was the oil pump seal. Also serpentine belt because I have no record of when it was done and it's fairly cheap since it's off anyway.

A. I'm currently at 5000kms since last oil change. I had planned on doing the oil change after the removing the oil pump. We're supposed to be driving 1000kms this weekend and I don't have time for the job until next week or next weekend. Should I just wait for the oil change, or (and maybe this is stupid) could I do the oil now, then when I do the pump just drain the oil and re-use that same oil with 1000kms use on it when I'm done the job?

B. I understand precision with turning crank/cams to TDC is vital. My concern is getting the crankshaft gear off without mucking everything up. It's supposed to be torqued at like 150-180ft/lbs and difficult to get off? If I get the tool that will hold the crank gear in place, can I safely use an impact wrench at 200ft/lbs without concern for turning the gear once everything is set to TDC? One Youtube guy had basically 2 feet of extension on his ratchet and then an 8 foot cheater bar. It seemed ridiculous. MrRangerZ just used an impact wrench. Is this the best way to do that along with the crank gear holding tool? I'm somewhat worried about accidentally turning the crank or cams once the TB is off and mucking my engine.

C. I've not done a job like this. I've replaced power steering pumps, alternators, starters, shocks/struts, various other gaskets and pieces like the VVTI solenoid gasket, etc, but nothing quite this big. It seems if a job is supposed to take a guy who kind of knows what they're doing 5 hours, it'll take me 8 hours. How long will a job like this take the average guy? Is 1-2 days a reasonable expectation give my lower level of experience? A few 4 hour evenings?

Sorry for the detail. Thanks for any input!

C. Does this make the most sense to do the oil pump seal along with the oil filter housing seals, cam seals, crank seal, etc, at the same time as the TB?
 
Discussion starter · #158 ·
I'm planning on doing the timing belt along with some other little things in the next week or so. I've read through every thread on here I can find, watched numerous videos online including MrRangerZ, and read through the Haynes manual. I'll also preface by saying this will be my 1st timing belt job, and I'm unwilling to pay a mechanic or dealership $700-$1500 for the job. I've read not to do this as your first TB, but that's just not an option for me right now.

I just want to go through what I'm planning and see what I'm not considering or what I've got wrong with the plan, and ask a few questions.

1. Dealership mentioned during a recent 'free inspection' there is a slight oil pump seal leak and I'm adding a bit of oil every 1000kms.
2. TB was last done 60,000 miles and about 6 years ago. Water pump was not replaced at that time. While is a little early for the job, but with oil pump seal leak, WP not being done, and being in Canada with colder weather, I'd like to do it now. I like the idea of getting this van in better shape than when I bought it in December now that it's at 210,000km and getting things done.
3. I purchased the Aisin kit in addition to several seals from Honda and plan on replacing them as well (oil pump seal, crank seal, cam seals, oil filter housing seal/vtec seal/o-ring) because I'm already down there and they seem to be points that can cause leaks and may be leaking, even though Honda said it was the oil pump seal. Also serpentine belt because I have no record of when it was done and it's fairly cheap since it's off anyway.

A. I'm currently at 5000kms since last oil change. I had planned on doing the oil change after the removing the oil pump. We're supposed to be driving 1000kms this weekend and I don't have time for the job until next week or next weekend. Should I just wait for the oil change, or (and maybe this is stupid) could I do the oil now, then when I do the pump just drain the oil and re-use that same oil with 1000kms use on it when I'm done the job?

B. I understand precision with turning crank/cams to TDC is vital. My concern is getting the crankshaft gear off without mucking everything up. It's supposed to be torqued at like 150-180ft/lbs and difficult to get off? If I get the tool that will hold the crank gear in place, can I safely use an impact wrench at 200ft/lbs without concern for turning the gear once everything is set to TDC? One Youtube guy had basically 2 feet of extension on his ratchet and then an 8 foot cheater bar. It seemed ridiculous. MrRangerZ just used an impact wrench. Is this the best way to do that along with the crank gear holding tool? I'm somewhat worried about accidentally turning the crank or cams once the TB is off and mucking my engine.

C. I've not done a job like this. I've replaced power steering pumps, alternators, starters, shocks/struts, various other gaskets and pieces like the VVTI solenoid gasket, etc, but nothing quite this big. It seems if a job is supposed to take a guy who kind of knows what they're doing 5 hours, it'll take me 8 hours. How long will a job like this take the average guy? Is 1-2 days a reasonable expectation give my lower level of experience? A few 4 hour evenings?

Sorry for the detail. Thanks for any input!

C. Does this make the most sense to do the oil pump seal along with the oil filter housing seals, cam seals, crank seal, etc, at the same time as the TB?
The oil pump seal job is a little more involved since you have to drop the exhaust and remove the oil pan, but doable.

You don't even need the holder tool if you are using an impact. You only would need the holder to torque the crank bolt during installation, not removal. A strong enough impact with the Lisle socket will zip off the bolt no problem.

As a first timer, especially since you're doing more than just the belt, I would give yourself the full weekend to get it done. Could take less, but better to overestimate.
 
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Should I just wait for the oil change
That's what I would do. There's a risk of the drained oil getting contaminated before it got back into the engine. Besides, reusing it would be plain messy.
I'm somewhat worried about accidentally turning the crank or cams once the TB is off and mucking my engine.
Remove the crank bolt before doing anything else. This way the cam timing won't be affected if the crank moves a bit. Also, just in case the bolt proves to be stubborn, you're not too deep into the job to easily retreat and regroup.
impact wrench at 200ft/lbs
Most others have needed a more stout impact.
Does this make the most sense to do the oil pump seal along with the oil filter housing seals, cam seals, crank seal, etc, at the same time as the TB?
Yep, replacing those other parts (except the oil filter housing seals) would require removing the TB, so it makes sense to do them all together.
 
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The oil pump seal job is a little more involved since you have to drop the exhaust and remove the oil pan, but doable.

You don't even need the holder tool if you are using an impact. You only would need the holder to torque the crank bolt during installation, not removal. A strong enough impact with the Lisle socket will zip off the bolt no problem.

As a first timer, especially since you're doing more than just the belt, I would give yourself the full weekend to get it done. Could take less, but better to overestimate.
So, I do need to for sure have the holder to properly torque the crank bolt? Or if I can set my impact at a specific lt/lb, can I go by that? Should that be accurate enough vs a proper toeque wrench? It's just the electronic Mastercraft wired impact wrench. I think it goes up to 225-250. I'm hopeful it's small enough to get where it needs to go.

Thanks for help on timing. I definitely don't want to be rushed.
 
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