Honda Odyssey Forum banner

61 - 78 of 78 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter #61
After you do a few of them you can get them done in about 4 hours. On the pin, you need to pull it quickly. I haven't had one stick where I had to pull it off and reset it but they can hang a little bit.
I was prepared to pull the pin quickly after reading several comments about it jamming. I put locking pliers on the pin and then quickly pulled, but each time the pin would bend and jam. Every video I watched made it look so easy. In fact, in several videos, the person would pull the pin using their finger. I can't imagine how that's even possible. Obviously, this is a case where having real experience makes a huge difference in the outcome!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
418 Posts
Thank you for sharing your experience! It took me a few hours to do new rotors and brakes all around my CX-5. It saved me several hundred dollars and thankfully it was straightforward. If you're a 100% emphatic no on redoing this experience, I'm for sure paying somebody else to do it for me when the time comes :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter #63 (Edited)
Thank you for sharing your experience! It took me a few hours to do new rotors and brakes all around my CX-5. It saved me several hundred dollars and thankfully it was straightforward. If you're a 100% emphatic no on redoing this experience, I'm for sure paying somebody else to do it for me when the time comes :D
No problem. Hopefully my experience has been insightful. I really wanted to enjoy this project. I was anticipating it for weeks and was excited when the time came. But, there were just too many headaches along the way which quickly killed any satisfaction when the job was complete.

I'm sure it's all a matter of perspective. For some guys, this job is very routine and doesn't amount to any frustration as it did for me. But, as my first attempt at a timing belt, there were just too many bumps in the road which made this an awful experience. I'm definitely going to stick with oil changes, brakes and rotors, etc. and leave timing belts to the professionals. I'll gladly pay $1000+ for the luxury of sitting in an air conditioned waiting room while someone else labors over this job. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter #66
I also wanted to mention that another difficulty for me was the final torque of the crankshaft bolt after I had replaced the timing belt and covers. The Honda recommendation is 47 ft-lbs + 60 degrees. I was able to easily torque to 47 ft-lbs, but the additional 60 degrees was near impossible for me. I used a long cheater bar with a torque angle gauge. But, I could only tighten to about 40 degrees.

Honda explicitly says not to use an impact to tighten the crank bolt. However, I had no choice but to use my Milwaukee 2767 + Lisle socket to give an extra torque. Afterwards, I noticed this caused some slack on the right side of the timing belt. But, after manually turning the crank pulley a few times, the timing belt tightened back up again. I also double-checked that the timing marks were still aligned. Risky to say the least!

Who knows if this achieved the necessary torque. Hopefully, since this is a clockwise rotating engine, the crankbolt will continue to tighten with each start of the engine. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
No problem. Hopefully my experience has been insightful. I really wanted to enjoy this project. I was anticipating it for weeks and was excited when the time came. But, there were just too many headaches along the way which quickly killed any satisfaction when the job was complete.

I'm sure it's all a matter of perspective. For some guys, this job is very routine and doesn't amount to any frustration as it did for me. But, as my first attempt at a timing belt, there were just too many bumps in the road which made this an awful experience. I'm definitely going to stick with oil changes, brakes and rotors, etc. and leave timing belts to the professionals. I'll gladly pay $1000+ for the luxury of sitting in an air conditioned waiting room while someone else labors over this job. ;)
Interesting perspective, and it is good that we all can make our own choice.

I have found that I am the only person who does work on my own vehicles 100% correctly (or, at least to whatever my standard is). Every time I do work in an area a mechanic has worked on previously (putting the third timing belt on my old 4Runner, for example), I find errors, omissions, mistakes, missing parts, etc. It isn't about saving money or time. My two motivations are: making sure I have/keep the most reliable vehicle possible and also the satisfaction of completing a difficult task.

Then again, I do use the $$$ savings as an excuse to get parts for my project vehicles... :sneaky:

-Charlie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter #68
I have found that I am the only person who does work on my own vehicles 100% correctly (or, at least to whatever my standard is). Every time I do work in an area a mechanic has worked on previously (putting the third timing belt on my old 4Runner, for example), I find errors, omissions, mistakes, missing parts, etc. It isn't about saving money or time. My two motivations are: making sure I have/keep the most reliable vehicle possible and also the satisfaction of completing a difficult task.
That's a great point. I tend to be a perfectionist myself. I went as far as buying new OEM bolts for the side engine mount, tensioner and idler pulley, and crank bolt as recommended by Honda. I doubt many mechanics would've gone to that effort. Most would just reuse the old bolts.

When I do a job, I know exactly what went into it and how it was done. I prefer doing my own work on our cars. I enjoy the satisfaction and sense of accomplishment when the work is completed. It is rewarding and also saves my family some money. Perhaps if I had more experience with timing belts, this would've been an easier job. I'm not a mechanic, just a DIY dad/husband.

Also, working out in a hot garage in the middle of Texas summer heat is miserable. That certainly didn't help create an enjoyable situation. I have a large fan that I use, but that didn't do much to cut the heat. I've seriously considered installation a split-unit AC system in my garage. Maybe that would help change my mind.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
I was prepared to pull the pin quickly after reading several comments about it jamming. I put locking pliers on the pin and then quickly pulled, but each time the pin would bend and jam. Every video I watched made it look so easy. In fact, in several videos, the person would pull the pin using their finger. I can't imagine how that's even possible. Obviously, this is a case where having real experience makes a huge difference in the outcome!
To remove some of the pressure on the tensioner, I gently pushed against the adjuster pulley. I could then pull the tensioner pin out by hand with a quick tug. The blue arrow shows the direction I pushed on the pulley. You can also use the battery clamp bolt "trick" called for in the shop manual.

152184
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,526 Posts
Great example of why I follow the shop manual. The battery clamp (or a sufficiently long M6 bolt will do, as I use) "trick" is not some secret optional hint. It is the correct procedure.

If one chooses to listen to instructions on here and youtube that is hopefully 80% correct, well, you might have problems. Following the manual is less likely to lead to problems.

Odyclub and youtube are useful due to photos (like the great one immediately above - something you'd never see in a manual), videos, and suggestion for DIYers to get past the tricky steps with non-professional equipment (e.g., crank pulley bolt off/on), but the manual is useful since it is not wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter #71 (Edited)
To remove some of the pressure on the tensioner, I gently pushed against the adjuster pulley. I could then pull the tensioner pin out by hand with a quick tug. The blue arrow shows the direction I pushed on the pulley. You can also use the battery clamp bolt "trick" called for in the shop manual.
Thanks very much for the suggestion and the detailed picture with the blue arrow. I am skeptical that "gently" pushing on the tensioner pulley with your finger would create enough force to move the tensioner piston. In fact, to reset the tensioner, I had to use a floor jack and the weight of the vehicle to compress the piston. I can't imagine how a gentle push of your finger would be able to compress the piston enough to ease removal of the grenade pin. You must have some incredibly strong fingers. :)

If I were to ever attempt this job again (and that's a huge "if"), I think the battery clamp bolt trick would be my preferred option to compress the tensioner piston slightly before removing the grenade pin. Or, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I would first replace the flimsy grenade pin with a nail or some other strong metal that wouldn't bend so easily before installing the tensioner on the engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
I had already reinstalled the clamp bolt back on the battery, so I decided to just test it with my finger. Pulled the pin with no issue. It's a miracle I still have fingers after all of my lazy "tests", but this one worked. :)

oldskewel, you're right, I learned my lessons long ago not to attempt any project without the shop manual for the exact year, make, model, and trim I'm working on. That being said, what's the torque spec for the side engine mount bolts? ;)

From the engine mount removal instructions...
152187


From the timing belt installation instructions...
152188


Not terribly significant, I went with 40 lbf-ft on the vertical bolts and 43 lbf-ft on the horizontal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,526 Posts
Good one on the torque specs. I scanned the relevant pages from my 2011's service manual so I could print them out while doing the job on my 2011 LX. So I checked those scans just now, and they are exactly as you showed.

Yes, different values for the same bolts depending on what section it is in. I'd guess that either will work fine, but surely they should be consistent.

BTW, if anyone wants those scanned sections, let me know. But it is for 2011, with no guarantees for later years.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
I also wanted to mention that another difficulty for me was the final torque of the crankshaft bolt after I had replaced the timing belt and covers. The Honda recommendation is 47 ft-lbs + 60 degrees. I was able to easily torque to 47 ft-lbs, but the additional 60 degrees was near impossible for me. I used a long cheater bar with a torque angle gauge. But, I could only tighten to about 40 degrees.

Honda explicitly says not to use an impact to tighten the crank bolt. However, I had no choice but to use my Milwaukee 2767 + Lisle socket to give an extra torque. Afterwards, I noticed this caused some slack on the right side of the timing belt. But, after manually turning the crank pulley a few times, the timing belt tightened back up again. I also double-checked that the timing marks were still aligned. Risky to say the least!

Who knows if this achieved the necessary torque. Hopefully, since this is a clockwise rotating engine, the crankbolt will continue to tighten with each start of the engine. :)
Here are two pics of my setup for getting that 60 degrees. I used a 1/2" breaker bar on the "Honda Tool" I borrowed from O'Reilly's, then wedged it between the axle and the steering linkage; a cheater pipe over the socket wrench gave me the maximum leverage my driveway would allow to actually turn the bolt. I put a paint dot on the 19mm socket, lining it up with one of the points on the Honda Tool. Once that dot lines up with the next point on the hexagon, bingo. It took some effort with my strong fingers, but I didn't have to rig up ratchet straps or pulleys or anything. For what it's worth, I couldn't get it to budge beyond that 60 degrees.

152195


152196
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter #75
Here are two pics of my setup for getting that 60 degrees. I used a 1/2" breaker bar on the "Honda Tool" I borrowed from O'Reilly's, then wedged it between the axle and the steering linkage; a cheater pipe over the socket wrench gave me the maximum leverage my driveway would allow to actually turn the bolt. I put a paint dot on the 19mm socket, lining it up with one of the points on the Honda Tool. Once that dot lines up with the next point on the hexagon, bingo. It took some effort with my strong fingers, but I didn't have to rig up ratchet straps or pulleys or anything. For what it's worth, I couldn't get it to budge beyond that 60 degrees.
Again, thanks for providing excellent pictures with diagrams! Very helpful! I ended up using a 1 foot extension with my breaker bar to give myself enough clearance away from the vehicle. I'm wondering if that didn't make it more difficult for me to tighten to 60 degrees. I also didn't remove the entire wheel liner, just the small panel in front of the crankshaft pulley and then used a bungee cord to hold it to the side. I ended up using my impact to give the crankshaft bolt a final tightening. The van's been running find ever since, so hopefully I didn't mess anything up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Excellent discussion! I'm in the same boat as you @purc1234 as I'm figuring the $$ savings can go towards tools (e.g., air compressor) that I haven't had throughout my DIY years but would be a great investment I can use on other projects around the house. I hadn't considered changing the other parts (thermostat, engine mount, etc) as mentioned in this thread so this has been helpful.

I'm feeling the same excitement you were 3 months ago, but was discouraged per your update referencing the time consumption and frustrations. Where do you feel the time could be saved/shaved? To me, 10 hours is what I would expect for a first attempt and thorough install and am reminded of long days/nights working on cars with my dad for family/friends (pre-YouTube). It sounds to me that the additional time was, respectfully, put into dotting all your i's and crossing your t's? Besides the grenade pin and torquing the crank bolt to spec (I may just rent torque wrench), any other concerns? Do you have a summary of parts or tools used? Thank you in advance!

P.S. - Reading through this thread and the back and forth, I was happy to hear that you decided to do it after all. (y)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
I know you're asking purc, but for what it's worth, I didn't buy/already have an air compressor. I used a Milwaukee 2767 with the ARES 19mm socket (2.04 lbs.) for that crankshaft bolt. It came off faster than I could take my finger off the trigger. I borrowed the Honda tool and the click-type 1/2" torque wrench from O'Reilly's to remount that bolt. I have a smaller rod-type torque wrench I used on the smaller stuff.

It took me all weekend (about 20 hours), but I had to stop every now and then because of monsoon rains, so probably about 8 hours actual labor. Reviewed every procedure with the shop manual, bagged and labeled all the bolts, took extra care with the timing belt itself, and took a bunch of photos.

Here's a sanitized version of the maintenance record, which lists all the parts I used. You'll notice I did not use the AISIN kit, but only because I've always used Honda Genuine stuff.

152427


Other than the tools above, I used: chiltondiy.com subscription for my vehicle, 4 jack stands (at least 2-tons each), 4 wheel chocks, hydraulic 2 1/2-ton floor jack with a 2x4x10 wood piece, full metric socket set (1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" drives), screwdrivers, siphon pump, bastard file for the battery clamp bolt, paint pen, 10" extension for 3/8" drive sockets, universal joint extensions, (2) 3" extensions for 3/8" drive sockets and spark plug socket for the spark plugs, 18" pipe as a breaker bar, 1/2" breaker bar for the Honda tool, needle-nose pliers, a large old flat-head screwdriver and rubber mallet to break the old water pump loose from its seal, some paracord to secure the hood in the "as open as it would safely go" position, anti-seize, and funnels/drip pans. I also vacuumed out the air intake and battery tray, under the plastic engine cover, and around the engine mount area. I think that's it but I could be wrong!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter #78
Excellent discussion! I'm in the same boat as you @purc1234 as I'm figuring the $$ savings can go towards tools (e.g., air compressor) that I haven't had throughout my DIY years but would be a great investment I can use on other projects around the house. I hadn't considered changing the other parts (thermostat, engine mount, etc) as mentioned in this thread so this has been helpful.

I'm feeling the same excitement you were 3 months ago, but was discouraged per your update referencing the time consumption and frustrations. Where do you feel the time could be saved/shaved? To me, 10 hours is what I would expect for a first attempt and thorough install and am reminded of long days/nights working on cars with my dad for family/friends (pre-YouTube). It sounds to me that the additional time was, respectfully, put into dotting all your i's and crossing your t's? Besides the grenade pin and torquing the crank bolt to spec (I may just rent torque wrench), any other concerns? Do you have a summary of parts or tools used? Thank you in advance!

P.S. - Reading through this thread and the back and forth, I was happy to hear that you decided to do it after all. (y)
Thanks for your kind words. Honestly, there's a part of me that doesn't regret this journey because, however you look at it, this was a huge accomplishment for me. If I can successfully change a timing belt, what can't I do? :) By the time our van is due for another timing belt, maybe I'll give it another shot. Who knows? Never say never!

As I mentioned, the grenade pin was the biggest headache in this procedure for me. In all the videos I watched and everything I read, it never crossed my mind that this would end up being the biggest challenge for me. I had watched so many videos before attempting this job that I felt very confident when the time came. I pretty much had the procedure memorized step by step.

I did buy a few new tools/toys specifically for this job. I bought the honda crank pulley tool and Lisle 77080 19mm socket which made removing the crank bolt very easy. I also bought an angle gauge for the final 60 degrees torque on the crank bolt, but this didn't help much with the final torque as I mentioned before. I bought the Milwaukee 2767-20 1/2" impact and Milwaukee 2457-21 electric ratchet which greatly sped up the removal of all the bolts that had to be removed. I didn't have a serpentine belt tool, so I bought that as well. In addition to the Aisin Timing Belt Kit, I bought new Honda bolts for the idler and tensioner pulleys (highly recommended), a new side engine mount, belt tensioner, serpentine belt, (6) NGK spark plugs, thermostat, and upper/lower radiator hoses. I figure if I had to drain the coolant anyway, might as well replace the hoses with 113k miles on our van.

I can't imagine how it's possible to complete a timing belt in 4 hours as some guys mentioned. It's not a difficult job, but there are a lot of steps and it just takes time. I hope that my frustration didn't discourage you away from attempting this job. It's a matter of perspective. Some guys complete this job for the first time with very little difficulty or frustration. I enjoy the satisfaction of working on cars, and this job was a huge step for me. Keep your patience and you'll do just fine. Good luck!
 
61 - 78 of 78 Posts
About this Discussion
77 Replies
27 Participants
purc1234
Honda Odyssey Forum
Odyclub community is the #1 forum to discuss all things Honda Odyssey: minivans, safety, service maintenance, mods, and more.
Full Forum Listing
Top